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Shit, sorry for the double post. I'll edit in something good later but, 200th post!!

What game? There's a game? Get out of our discussion of gnder issues!

Okay, the new one is done now. I copied a lot of your improvements almost exactly, lilbluesmurf, hope you don't mind... if so, I can change them.

Thanks so much for your help everyone! I'm really, really happy with the way it looks now.

Andail - So what, you want all images of people to be realistic?

Young girls (and boys also, naturally) cut themselves with razors because they don't fit in the perfect image. They purchase fake body parts to fit in. They get depressed for years and kill themselves.

And if we abolish unrealistic images in the media, do you think that will change? People will always like some people more than others. Even if physical beauty is no longer a concern, maybe we'll start desiring the people with the cleanest teeth. But some people will always have cleaner teeth than others. Or what if we start desiring people with the best minds? Some people will always have better minds than others. Will girls be cutting themselves because they can't make themselves as smart as that other girl over there that the guys like?

These 'unrealistic' images are there because people like certain traits in others. A lot of people happen to like big breasts, for example (off the top of my head), so it's only natural people start exagerrating these traits in cartoon and whatnot. It happens with any kind of trait that stands out, even hated ones. Take politicians or caricatures as an example. It's been happening as soon as man was able to pick up a stick and draw a picture in the dirt.

If your problem isn't with people drawing girls with exagerated appendages, and is instead with "unrealisticly beautiful" people in the media, then are you saying we need some kind of quota to make sure beautiful people are kept in check with a good number of dowdy people?

If not either of these, please explain to me what you think ought to happen.

Stupid people design the perfect image, frustrated, immature, superficial people define what the perfect image is like, and they spread it everywhere.

So you've never had a discussion with your mates about whether a blonde, brunette or red head is better? If some guy told you he liked red heads best, do you think that would stop him falling in love with an amazing brunette he met?

I have about 50 "perfect images" of people in my head, and I redefine them all the time, but I do like to have a crack at defining them. I find that it's one of the joys of drawing, is being able to produce what I think is a really beautiful girl. It doesn't -mean- anything, and it doesn't make one lick of difference to who I find attractive in real life.

If I'm stupid, frustrated and immature, then so be it, but I'd rather be that than so insecure with my life that I was afraid to objectify people, enjoy sexuality, enjoy idealisation and enjoy light-hearted jokes and discussions without thinking the world was gonna end.

EDIT: I'm not saying you are those things, Andail. But I reckon some people are.

Shemas dance was nice until she did one part... I can't remember what it was but I remember thinking "Eww, Shema! What are you doing??"

Yep, it's just the image. Saving the screenshot as a gif screwed some of the colours up, but I just left it since it didn't seem to matter much.

Good.

I don't think you need to have an issue with it though. It makes perfect sense that this thread has been so popular.

1) It's about a subject -everyone- has an opinion on. It's relevant to everyone.

2) It's indirectly about adventure games, and that's why we're all here.

3) A lot of the posts are by the same people getting into heated arguments. the thing with arguments like these is that the same 3 or 4 people fight with each other over misquotations and desperate attempts to have their points understood. Then, you have little posts here and there with people wanting to step in and clear things up. That leads to further misquotations as people start to generalise about the tone of the thread or because they put everyone into side A or B and this makes people who don't fully agree with people on their own "side" angry and they want to clarify their positions.

I agree with Akumayo in that I'm never sure it's a good idea. RPGs are just very different creatures to adventure games. Most adventure games do fall into a few catagories, but RPGs -really- differ in the kind of engine's they use. I ultimately think it's better people sit down and decide the way they want their game to work, and code it themselves.

However, having mods to do very distinct tasks would certainly be useful to a lot of people. For example, the TypeLine function is something I could see being used in many RPGs, as it being used in mine. Perhaps even the crappy mod I made for having non-blocking text appear on screen with an animating border or something, but that's very specific. I have no idea if anyone will ever need that.

In that case it's back to the drawing board for me. Can you name a few of these mangas that do that, buloght? I want to see how they do it.

I couldn't help but look towards your avatar, Bernie...

I don't think it's overly used in manga at all though. Some use it, most don't.

Oh, oh, lilbluesmurf (and Ivy!), that's -just- the kind of help I was after! I didn't realise it would make such a difference to add a bit of black/shadow to the "diamond"... it REALLY looks several levels better. I'll come back with another re-draw at the end of the day.

The reason there's no 'use' box there already is because that functionality is already handled in the button presses. You can either use an item or equip an item. Discard is a seperate box because I think it's a more dangerous thing, and I want it to take just a little more effort to delete an item.

I don't want to stretch the description box out either, because I need all the space for descriptions I currently have. Still, it's a very valid point about the off-centredness... does anyone else think the boxes at the bottom should be more symmetrical? Of course, I'll shift the whole lot of them over so the grouping is centred, but is the fact that the space between them isn't centred a problem?

Yurina - I agree, the wings need reworking. I think I'lll do that tonight too. (They were indeed a quickie job)

There is no discussion about pie. Everyone loves it and that's that.

Yes I like you ^_^ I have no idea what your boobs are like so it's not because of that. I like that you stand up for what you believe in, even if it's not what I agree with. I also like arguing, though I try to do it less than I did when I was a young whippersnapper when I really did start debates on anything, all the time, just for the sake of them. I also agree that these threads are not entirely without point because it does force people to think more deeply about the core of what they believe in, and to question themselves.

DG is right in that there are more important things we could be discussing, and that there should have been no fuss in the first place, but it happened, and I think we're all a little wiser and more open minded for it.

Now go and contribute to my 'things you do when you're bored' thread! Also, I want the last say so can we lock this now?

That QFG dragon head one brought back memories!

I used to do that ALLLL the time. It would be a challenge to always do the coolest thing with the dragon head everytime it popped up.

I also do the "fitting" of various cursors into pictures or words thing.

"The Final Feminist", eh?Ã, 

Actually, I hate the word feminist. I hate that people think I'm either one, or I'm not. I don't consider myself to be anymore of a feminist than I am a masculinist (?), or an animilist or a... bug.. ist.

(The women who think that women are being hypersensitive, on the other hand, might have more of a point...)

Well, that would be me so I guess I have a point.

I wrote a whole bloody big paragraph about how the world has so many different cultures and this debate really only applies to the general "western" one, and how I think some women have simply grown up experiencing more discrimination than the rest of us, or that they place more emphasis on that discrimination than the rest of us, and how I myself have of course been discriminated against but I also discriminate against men sometimes and I see men being discriminated against because of their gender, and I'm on like the 6th bloody day of my period right now and I wish it'd just fuck off.

But, I accidentally pressed CTRL + Z too many times and for some unholy reason, the whole paragraph disappeared and I can't be bothered writing it again except for that little summary up there.

My point anyway, is that I think I have a pretty good attitude to this stuff, but keep in mind that I'm a bisexual with a thing for large (but not TOO large) and shapely breasts so I'm not unbiased or without my own agenda here.

However, even regardless of that, I believe people should just chill out most of the time. If some guy is honestly being a prick about someone being a woman and discriminating against her in some way, the best thing is just to make him realise he's a dickhead and the world has moved on from that shit. I think actually bringing feminism into it will just make him think he has a justified fight on his hands. Just roll your eyes and kick him in the balls. Or ignore him.

As for big tits in video games, whoopie! You don't have to like them, you don't have to play the game, you can tell the creator you think it might make his/her game less successful but then leave it at that and go do your own thing. As we've proven, kicking up a stink about these things makes them far more popular.

As I so often find myself saying, the market will work itself out. Concern yourself with what you like or don't like, and let others make their own decisions too. Of course we can try to make others see something we see that they aren't seeing, but don't go too far with it, don't get your knickers in a knot about it, just move on.

Whoever you are OP (sorry, I forget your name again), I might play your game when it comes out. If I happen to catch the release announcement, I probably will. Unless I'm too tired that day, in which case I might not. We'll see. In any case, I think you draw good boobies.

EDIT: TIS, I like you so I'm not taking a stab at you with this, but just remember you aren't fighting the good fight for all of us. You aren't every woman, just as I'm not. Let people be people, and individuals be individuals.

I happen to dislike Sex in the City, and yet I love it at the same time. I originally loved it cause they said 'fuck', then I hated it because they were all stupid women, and now I love it again because it's just cheap entertainment and well, there's lots of sex in the show. My fiance and I would both bitch about the show and then find ourselves watching it more and more. It's not that great either, I'd never buy it on DVD or anything. I just downloaded every episode of South PArk ever  There's my weekend!

Thanks!

I do it ALL the time. Not just with lines, but with text too. I just did it with your post. Just finding the best position so I can go up a few turns of the wheel without getting the cursor on any text or lines.

Holy shit, you know I never considered that @_@ THANK YOU!

I would say then, that I belong to the school of post-post-feminism. I like girls who are sexy and kick ass, but I also like girls who aren't afraid to be girly, or weak, or very feminine if that's who they are and that's what they want to be. I just want girls to be what they want, not just thinking they need to take one particular female role. Just be people, people

Do you ever play any silly games by yourself (I mean the clean kind) when you're bored at the computer? Or anywhere?

For example, sometimes without even realising it, I'll place my cursor somewhere between the lines on the AGS forum page (or any forum page), and see how many times I can move the mouse wheel and still have the cursor stay out of the lines.

'Course, that's cause I spend all day and night at the computer, I'm sure you guys cancome up with something more interesting ^_^