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God didn't plan those people to be the way they are....
If Christianity is true, and Jesus really is the only way, then when I die, I'll be up in the clouds mocking you all.

If god didn't plan them, then he's not all powerful. Also, sitting up in the clouds mocking people who are burning for eternity.... not very nice. That immediately makes you a worse person than me in that you would enjoy seeing many other people suffering for the rest of existence, while you live it up in luxury. I would never, ever condone such a thing.

Anyway,

We can change this thread a bit to be about  religious upbringing because I'm certainly curious to hear about other peoples religious upbringing... particularly steel drummers at this point


My parents never spoke about god. They were agnostic, but just never ever put their views of religion upon me... not on purpose, just because it never occured to them. I learned about religion through school.

I always took it to be a kind of silly story that OTHER people believed in, I guess because I'd grown up without having to believe that a magician magicked up the entire planet, so when I DID learn about it and had a little bit of a mind of my own, I chose to reject it based on so, so many ridiculous things about the whole story.

I did, in primary school, get bullied for not believing in god and told I'd go to hell etc. Once, the priest (who used to visit the school every week) asked me to sit on his lap and I said no. He tried to coax me on and said, "Ah come on, don't be shy!" but I refused because he was a strange old man and it was embarrassing to sit on his lap in front of the whole class, because he always used to rub peoples faces and hair and stuff. Afterwards, the people in my class told me I'd go to hell for being disrespectful. My parents told the school that I wasn't to EVER be present in the room with that priest again and that when he visited, I should go to the school library. My teacher agreed, but every time the priest visited from then on, she'd still keep me in the room...

My parents took me out of that school and home educated me until secondary school. Incidentally, a huge number of children in my primary school were sexually abused by the local priest. where I used to live is one of the most prevalent areas of Ireland for child sexual abuse by the clergy.

In secondary school however, I guess people were a bit grown up, and it was a different part of Ireland too... so they were a lot more relaxed about their view of god. IE he's just a loving parent who sits in heaven and waits for all his children to come to him so he can party with them. They also believed in evolution, and said that they can't be sure exactly how god created the earth and when he did it, but they believe he's there. Surprising for a bunch of Catholic people, but it was the nicest concept of god I've ever known. They also all went to church of their own accord on Sundays, so it wasn't like they were only half-heartedly believing in him... it was really just what they believed a good god to be like.

FTw.

Christians, man. Should all be raped in the face repeatedly with spiky knuckledusters for the rest of eternity.

Not nice to hear someone say that, is it.

Having sex after marriage is not more joyful, necessarily. There's absolutely no reason to believe it would be.

As for STDs, pregnancy etc... you can still get pregnant or catch an STD from having sex with somebody AFTER marriage.

There is a difference between having pre-marital sex in loving, trusting, long-term relationships, and being slutty/sleeping around. I do believe that you should only have sex with somebody you're serious about, and that you know and trust and are in love with. That's something I've always believed, and it was contrary to the beliefs of other people my age when I was growing up. I was considered a "late starter" and even teased about the fact I didn't want to have sex with guys when I was in school or college.

The fact is, I'm still with the person I lost my virginity to. We've been together for two years now and live together, have long-term commitments such as buying cats and a house together... he's the love of my life. I don't have STDs, neither does he. He has been with other women before he was with me, he doesn't have any STDs. We use condoms, and I've never been pregnant, but we've agreed that if I ever did become pregnant than we'd keep the child. But we're still very careful nonetheless as we don't want to be parents yet (I'm way too young for that...!)

There's nothing morally wrong or loose about that, is there? I mean, I am experiencing the most beautiful and loving and caring relationship I've ever known, it means a lot to me. I don't know what is morally wrong about it. Maybe you can explain why my relationship is a sin, and a bad thing?

Also, why did they EAT the humans?

What's shocking to me is how loose everyone's morals are. Premarital sex is one thing, but now you people are saying polygamy is okay? I shudder to think what would happen if you entered into politics... 

Sorry, the way you say "premarital sex is one thing".... can you tell me what you think is morally wrong about pre-marital sex?

No seriously, I can't possibly figure out why on earth, once this thread got off topic, into religion, for some reason, it suddenly got very very very extremely utterly boring and no longer worth reading and it still gained 4 pages over a night! It's very unusual. well I hope you get something out of it. I won't, and most probably nor will anyone.

Some people clearly are still getting somethign out of it, if you're not then you shouldn't really post just to let everybody else know you're not interested.

Meowster (and others who think that evangelizing to others is wrong): How can you say that you find it offensive to tell others about God and Jesus, yet you don't mind offending Christians with your "Fuck God" and your "go to hell, Jesus" and your "I don't need Jesus' forgiveness. He didn't die for me. Damn him" nonsense. But when I share my views with you, you act like I'm committing murder. (Most of you probably think that murdering someone isn't that bad, either, just like you think polygamy isn't bad)

You're being just as strong with your views as everyone else is with theirs. Don't be silly.

Was that double-sarcasm?

Did they eat human meat?

PS don't paint everyone with the same brush. I didn't say polygamy is ok. Nobody else did. Just one person.

And he didn't say he was interested in it. He said if other people want to do it and they're okay with it, then what business is it of his? Can you not see the sense in what he says?

Did they cook the meat first or did they eat them raw?

They ate the flesh of women and children? What? Literally?

The thing that offends me though is the belief that other people who don't believe the same as you, will go to hell. It offends me. I think it's an absolutely disgusting thing to believe, and anybody who DOES blieve that should be utterly ashamed of themselves. Somebody could be a wonderful person, and yet suffer in "hell" for eternity because they don't WORSHIP some second-rate, cruel, pointless little god. I mean, let's pretend for a second that that is even a realistic idea. It's shit.

I went to a catholic school, and most people there believed in god. They had a nice view of religion though... God, in their eyes, created everything and watched over everyone, and if someone died, he wouldn't be judgemental and all  hell and fury and fire on them...  he'd take them to heaven and look after them for eternity. In fact, they didn't even believe there was a hell... God was just like a parent who looked after all of his children. That is a much nicer view of god in my eyes. It's a nice, warm, comfortable idea, and that concept of god is truly someone worth liking.

I remember one girl joined the school once... she was a missionary from Brazil. She told a lesbian girl in my class that she'd go to hell unless she changed her ways. I became friends with this girl (I'm a friendly person in real life, believe it or not... you might not guess it from my forum behaviour eh?). I became friends with her because nobody else would, and I felt sorry for her being left out and alone...

After a few weeks, she told me that I would go to hell unless I followed christ or whatever, and asked me to come home and have her parents teach me about him. When I said no thanks, she told me mournfully that I would burn in hell forever. She ACTUALLY SAID THAT. And expected me to be her friend.

and that's what I don't understand... she looked around her and saw that many of her lovely friends were going to burn in hell for eternity... people that she KNEW were good, and she KNEW were lovely.... and she "knew" that they were going to burn in hell forever and yet she worshipped the god that would do that to them!?!??

Anyway... people can believe in god and I really don't mind that. But this idea that people who don't go to hell or are in any way inferior to you? Haha. Bullshit.

I was taught religion in school, and science and evolution at school. I was taught both, and each class contradicted the other on a daily basis.

I realise that evolution is the closest thing to the truth: we see it in action every single day for heavens sake.

When do you see the work of god in action?

religion class, to me, always just seemed silly and a waste of my time... it's like learning and analysing the Never Ending Story or something... okay it was good to learn about other peoples religions because obviously they're very important, but since I'm from Ireland, there was always a pressure to force catholism on me, which I disliked... had it been purely about learning other peoples beliefs, it may have been okay...

It's so amazing to me, that religious people steadfastly believe in their god and yet never have an encounter with him in their lives. The only thing they know about this god is what they've been TOLD. He never contacts them, encourages them, speaks to them, gives them anything, gives them any sign he's there... and yet they defend him in the face of everything... it's ridiculous. I dunno, I really am amazed that people like that still exist.


Steel Drummer, I'm really curious... how are you so certain that god exists? How do YOU, personally, know that he exists? And if the answer is that the world is too complex to have created itself... how do you KNOW that ANOTHER god didn't create the world? How are you sure that your religion is the ONE?

You want me to give it to you straight? Why are people so quick to disprove God? I have never heard any of you disprove evolution, or humanism, or scientology, and whatever else there is that doesn't follow a god.

So what do you believe happens after you die, if heaven and hell are a state of mind? 
Seriously, what's the point of reading the Bible if you condemn organized religion, and God, and all that stuff? Why are you reading it?

You've never heard ME disproving those things personally, but there are a lot of people who do. You're trying to disprove evolution right now in fact. So what's your point exactly, Steel Drummer? you're just as quick to attempt to disprove evolution as we are to attempt to disprove god... don't pretend you're not.

As for what happens after you die... it's so funny that you bring that up. That's something that very religious people always bring up when they've been forced to back down by logical arguments... they start to panic and want to know what happens when you die. Basically, that's what religion is all about isn't it... feeling better about death. The whole concept focuses on what happens after you die. It's all so pointless and meaningless.

religious people are so scared about dying, and it makes no sense... if they truly believe in god...

Vict0r, why don't you go to hell, and then see what you think of God. And while you're at it, read the Bible. Get some answers about life, instead of believing in magic, like something straight out of a Disney film.

haha Vict0r believes in Magic? You're the one who thinks a magical being came along and magically created everything using magic...!

(from Colossal)

I am a very happy human being. I am an animal brought about by natural selection and evolution who has a super girlfriend for 6 or so years, a family that loves me, a job that I love, a cat that explodes with cuteness, an apartment to live in, enough money to more than get by and the only thing that scares me is losing my harddrive in a crash. I'm not afraid of the bogeyman or ghosts or sin or the devil. Humans have a fear of the unknown, sure, but not a fear of make believe.

I respect you 1 billion percent for this paragraph and I'm not even sure why.

Anyway.

god eh.

Why bring people in the world for the sole purpose of worshipping you?

Selfish. And gay!

Steel Drummer of religion bashers:

That is incredibly true. It only proves that there is a god, because those who preach Him get bashed, but those who reject Him don't.

That's not proof. In the same way, I could say that my boyfriend is GOD because I get bashed for talking about him all the time, but people who don't talk about him all the time, don't. Logic? I think not. Although my boyfriend IS actually god, so I guess it sort of is!

Mohammed, Gautama, etc.- None of them claimed to be God's son, or even asked to receive worship- Jesus did.

It's really sad and pathetic, needy and selfish that Jesus asked to receive worship.

Where are you from, steel drummer? I'm guessing some kind of middle american state...

hahaha.

It's so funny that people still believe in god and jesus.

It's so primitive, it really is. It's so unbelievably primitive and silly.

silly people.

I love hearing religious people argue and try to convince people, including themselves, that god is real. You have no idea, being religious and actually believing yourselves... you have no idea how funny and stupid it looks to anybody with half a brain. Anybody with a bit of "cop on" as they say in Ireland...

In this day and age, that people still believe in invisible fairies in the sky is pretty sad.

[There are lots of things about your religion that I would consider as having a bad effect on your life or the lives of other people]

Basically what I got from Yeowster's statements is that she would rather live the way she wants and not live her life in fear of "go[ing] to hell" than to worry about it. This is where we differ in opinions though. Because even though I've made mistakes in my past, I'd still rather lead a good life and be wrong about this religion stuff than to satisfy my temporal pleasures and be right about it.

You don't have to follow a religion to lead a good life. In fact, the life you're leading isn't one that I'd consider particularly good at all, especially since you're going out of your way to preach your views onto other people who really, you should just leave alone. In my view, premarital sex with somebody you love and are serious about isn't a sin at all, and it certainly doesn't give you "good" points. It's this kind of repression that has probably led you to fall in love with a 14 year old girl, so in fact I would consider sexual repression a very bad thing indeed.

So just because you're following your religion doesn't necessarily mean that you're leading a good life. That's where you're wrong.

I live the way *I* believe is good, and I don't need people or religion or a book or a fictional being in the sky to tell me that it's good. I love helping people. I love being generous and kind and I love making people happy. I send all my friends and family carefully considered gifts for their birthday and love to see them happy to use them/play with them/whatever. When my friend's PC blew up, I asked around at work to see if anybody had any spare parts lying around that they were going to throw out, to construct him a new one as a surprise gift. In the end, there was an entire PC that was going to be thrown out so he got that instead I love babysitting children because they get so happy when I draw pictures of them riding ponies and things like that.

I really, really love making people happy.

I'm not a bad person.

So, understandably, I don't see why I should go to hell just because I don't believe in God, despite the fact he's given no real solid proof of his existence. In fact, there is far more proof that he doesn't exist.

I think it's absolutely horrific to decree that a person such as myself should go to hell because I didn't worship a God... a God who, to be honest, isn't very good or kind or generous at all.

I think it's even more selfish to go around spreading "the word" of God to people that you should just leave be. Why would anybody want to be involved in your horrid religion which promotes the eternal burning of people who don't worship a single invisible, selfish god? You are supporting a barbaric, unforgiving, wrathful god, and I don't consider that good. You're encouraging other people to worship this barbaric, cruel god too, and I don't consider THAT good either.

So it's foolish to think that following your religion automatically means you're living your life well, and that even if you're wrong about the religion, you still lived a good life.

Because all it really means is that if you were wrong about your religion, you lived a really repressed life AND you wasted other people's time with lies and led other people to believe in a false religion and waste their lives too. So in fact you led a really bad, pointless existence.


There are lots of things about your religion that I would consider as having a bad effect on your life or the lives of other people, so it really IS worth considering whether that's what you want in your life and whether you really believe it... because as I said... if you find out it was all lies at the end, you WON'T be happy that you led a good life.... because you didn't:

1. Spreading false religion to other people
2. Denying yourself the pleasure of a loving, intimate pre-marital relationship
3. Denying other people that from you
4. Repression of sexual build-up can be bad for your health (ask a doctor)
5. Supporting political campaigns that use things taught as being correct/incorrect by your religion, IE homosexuality is wrong, pre-marital sex is wrong, religion being taught in schools etc
6. In fact there's another one right there - you'll inevitably base opinions on people because of things your religion has taught. Such as Homosexuals... I'm sure you'd never be closely friendly with a gay man because that's a sin. Such terrible lies are told about homosexual people in so many churchs... it's disgusting and to support such bullying is a really terrible thing.
7. Supporting things such as no contraception in African countries, helping the spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases
8. Discouraging divorce. I know of many religious couples who never divorced because they'd be looked down on by their church. While I believe a couple should be together forever once they're married, and I would hate to and try very hard never to divorce my husband... I believe that if a relationship is broken, divorce is the way to go. You're 40 years old, are you going to live the next 40+ years in misery and lonely in a bad relationship, just because someone somewhere decided that's what you should do?


slightly off-topic... I once read in a christian leaflet about how divorce and adultery was wrong and a mortal sin blah di blah. The story that they gave in the leaflet was about this woman who was 35 years old and in an unhappy relationship with her husband. Her husband paid her no attention, did not love her and spent no time with her. They had no children, so she spent all of her time at home alone. After work, he would go out with his friends and not return home until late, and even though she was desperate for children, he wouldn't "lie with her" (christian word for 'shag' apparently).

Then one day she met one of his friends. He took an interest in her and they got on very well. Their relationship developed and she felt like she was falling in love with him. He would take her to nice places, he would listen to her heartache and worries, he shared the same interests as her.

But she realised that God did not want her to stray from her husband, so she cut off all contact with this man before a stronger bond was allowed to be formed. She had a narrow escape from sin, but her belief in God saved her from this path.

NOW I ASK YOU, WTF?!?!?!? That story is meant to be uplifting and inspire you to be a good christian, but OH MAN! Basically she just fucked the last chance she had to live a happy life, and to have a lovely family... her husband is still an unloving dickhead, and she's going to be miserable and lonely and childless FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE.

!?!?!?!?

Just thought I'd mention that because it was really horrible... anyway, in similar ways your religion can affect you, Monkey, because you may be leading a life that you believe is right (as in her example) but which ultimately is only considered right by her church, and now she's going to be miserable for the rest of her fucking life.

What a depressing story.

But I don't want to serve a mission simply because of my beliefs in the church. I want to serve a mission because of my belief in God. Because I know...I know...that I wouldn't be the person I am today if there weren't a true God.

You think you know.

But when it comes down to it, this church is either true, or it's not. And I don't dare turn my back unless I know. Unless I really know.

That's what bugs me about churches and religion... it's all held together by fear. You daren't turn your back in case you go to hell. And that's basically it.

Which is why it strikes me as very selfish that you'd spread the word of your fear-driven religion to other people.

Hey guys

I'd appreciate if you could all go here and vote for this movie: http://www.firebox.com/index.html?dir=features&action=fbfilmfest&video_id=805ab1=1#player

You should do it because those guys are ARTISTS and PROGRAMMERS and you IDENTIFY with them.



Also watch the movie, I work with those guys, they're great. I love them. I want to marry them etc.

We were at someones house, at someones birthday. We didn't have a choice in what to drink once we ran out of Gin & Tonic. We were quite drunk, so it was alright.

Like having a crush on a filmstar you've never met, and knowing that you could be happy with them if only you got to meet them...

I see what you mean. It was lost in translation. But I see what you mean.

I care about your obsession mostly! "She's the one!". What one? Heck, it must be hell to be with 1 girl and nobody else really.

Eh? ¬¬

I've only ever had sex with my current boyfriend, I wouldn't be sad if he was the only person I ever slept with for the rest of my life...

Wasted or "spilled" seed is a sin, so, no. God doesn't allowed men to masturbate to the point of orgasm.

Which is extremely unhealthy. And also, doesn't make sense, because of course all that semen dies anyway doesn't it? And gets replaced/renewed every couple of weeks/months. So not only is your semen being completely wasted, you're not even getting a bit of a kick out of it. In fact, regular masturbation is beneficial to your health, gets your heart pumping etc... and I'm quite sure it helps keep sperm production good and healthy.

People need to review what it is exactly that they think God wants of them, because it's getting fucking stupid.