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Referring to your scene, it's weird but I like it.  The sprites rock, and the high contrast works for me as well.  Honestly I can't see anything to dislike or to suggest where to improve upon it, maybe somebody else will.  *high five*

Seems like there's lots of clipping, try not to go into the red in your mix, might have to lower some things or remove whatever instrument it is that's causing the clicking sound.

Also, the very end, there's a drum bit at 1:42...doesn't fit there IMO, I'd take it out and leave the rest of the piece alone otherwise.

What did you cover the window with, a giant magic marker?  It's really strange looking to me...I dunno if it's a sheet or what, but it doesn't look good.  Maybe try throwing some boards over the window, or take it out altogether, because now it just seems my attention is drawn to that thing.

Also the shadows just seem to be way too black, I think someone else mentioned this - I'm not sure if you can lighten them up anymore. I think Cluey said he did that really fast and if I were you, if you intend to use the dark shadow atmosphere versus the lit original-in-daylight-version, then I would shade it yourself and take it easy on the darkness levels.

Those two things are the only real issues I have with it.  Not bad.

That would be great if you could make a visual tutorial, also if you need actors for your game.  I would be more than happy to make a template of myself doing different things, if you need actors and such.  My email address is dean@team.bordernet.com.au if you would like my help.

I will either do a screen-cap tutorial or a youtube video, we'll see - but something and soon, but today I found myself too busy to do it.

Added a new WIP background to the first post, of what might work out as the interior of Lytton PD, Detective's Division.  It would be the left hallway, one of probably four hallway scenes in the PD to make up the entire building.  I have another background of the right hallway in the works, but I pretty much just need to figure out the layout of it and straighten some basic things out before I can really share it.

Awesome, I look forward to the tutorial.  I am really looking forward to the completion of this.  I really hope it doesn't die.

Well you're in luck then, because I've never given up on anything in my life.   My concept rock projects have been going on for fifteen years, and though I pause, I never quit them.  Also, when I started learning AGS I began a game almost right away .. in what 2003? Even though I've kept it tightly under wraps mostly, it's still an ongoing project that I haven't tossed.   Only reason it was never finished was due to my music career, but that's on hold now for at least a few years because I'm trying to focus on art instead of music for a change.   There's pretty much only one way this could die, and that's if I die.  So here's to me not being dead anytime soon! =p

And I will get to the tutorial, I swear, but I have a big list of things I want done and need to get done, and plus I'm like running around to birthday parties and art shows and all this craziness this week.  So it might be this coming weekend before I get the tutorial up.  If you want, you can head over to my website and check out the two tutorials that are up already.  There's one on perspective paths in photoshop, and another that focuses a little on layers and burn/dodge to add depth and detail etc.  Good stuff.

I replied with some references and offered myself as a team member on your boards under the post "Help wanted".

Let me know if your interested in my help at all.

Yeah so I already spoke with Joe - he's going to help with some scripting and various other things.   I'm still on the lookout for someone to do semi-realistic sprites and animation.  Feel free to contact me.  Added a new background or two, and I'm finishing up on some Cotton Cove ideas right now.  I'll post them in the first thread when I get it settled in the next few days.

That's it for now, and thanks Joe for the help!

That skin color chart is awesome.  Did you make it?

I think that the problem that many people here have had, and what they are complaining about, is that they want the features of Wintermute's engine, but the editor from AGS... People wouldn't  have tried at all if they didn't think there was an advantage to WM, but then they found it too hard for a beginner. Now, if someone wrote a book called "Wintermute for AGS users" then they'd probably have a bestseller, and all of CJ's supposedly loyal minions would defect.

I think this is exactly it.  Wanting the familiar editor but the features of WME for certain things.  I'm not dissatisfied with AGS in the least, I use it and love it, but there are times when I wish something was simply easier to do.  Unfortunately so far, WME hasn't really shown me whether or not it will allow, whatever it is that I want - there are so many many things - if it will actually allow me to do those things.  I'm still learning it. 

I decided to give it try #3, and this time, it's war (ok I'm kidding about the war...it just reminded me of like a movie tag for a second).  I will not give up WME until I have made at least a single game in it.  If after I've learned it inside and out, if I still can't get used to it, then it's really not for me.  Because like Mnemonic has pointed out, there have been misunderstandings - and following the WME Book has shown me that things are easier than I originally thought.  You just need a good guide it seems, jumping in blindly assuming "this will be just like AGS!" will kill you.  :/

theRedPress, you probably missed one very important thing. All the files and folders you see in ProjectMan are actually files and folders on your harddisk. Which means you can freely manipulate them using the file manager of your choice. So, "importing" anything means simply copying it to the project directory.
As for templates, you wouldn't want to start a project completely from scratch, believe me.

ProgZmax, what kind of sheer over-complication are we talking about? Creating an animation in SpriteEdit means:
-creating a new file (either from template or by clicking New)
-clicking the "Add frames" button
-selecting one or more images in the file selection dialog
-setting the frame delay
-clicking the "Copy delay to all frames" button.

And that's all. All the other options are for finetuning the animations.


I think your biggest problem with WME is, that it's not AGS It's not, and it's not intended to be.

I figured that out after the fact Mnemonic.  I want to ask you more about the engine though.  I registered on your forum so I will ask you my questions there.

"Let's slip something into your drink so you'll be more comfortable....with me...."

Let me just add, I didn't make that crap up, I am not to blame.

A quick search using the search feature returns this thread:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=32743.0

CJ is quoted talking about this towards the bottom - and I'm pretty sure this belongs in a different forum, but I'm not a mod so I can't make that call. ^^

So I'm just posting an update - since this thread came up last month, I decided I'd be kind and give WME another shot.  Unfortunately for me, I'm in the same boat as Voh.  I found the engine confusing, although obviously powerful when it came time to run things, it seemed to have no troubles at all there.  But just getting around in the development environment is, well, kind of difficult.  I couldn't seem to find a way to start an empty game, which I really like doing unlike others who prefer templates.

Also, I found it difficult to import a background! I mean it would import it, but it kept showing me this error box that it took me a while to figure out was a sprite of some sort looking for the wrong image? So it's not enough to import it, I guess.

I loved that things were large, so that if I wanted to set an area I didn't have to squint to see what I was drawing or selecting.  But AGS lets you import masks, so I guess it's ok.

Another thing that irked me about the WME was that you can't just delete multiple things.  Like I said it imports this basic template with stuff in it.  They import this horrendous looking 3D character named Molly, that to remove, you have to delete the sprites of individually for each view, one at a time.  You could delete her altogether sure, but if you wanted to make a new one you had two options...Molly, or some kind of generic.  I tried to do the generic one, hoping that it'd be empty so I could import my own sprites then, but no.  It came with a male ugly 3D model instead. :/

That's about the time I gave up on it and hugged my AGS software...er well you know....virtually.

** Now I'm not trying to slam WME either, I'm just saying that for me, it didn't work out.  I gave it a second try at least...that's something some people wouldn't do.

1. An unlocked feature of controlling Keith would be pointless unless controlling him served a purpose. Thats what I was requesting. I always hated that whenever Sonny would get out of the car, Keith would go do something else. What was he doing? Was he really doing anything at all? I think being able to control Keith would be great. For instance:

If sonny needs backup for a certain situation, the player can take control of Keith and position him with his gun ready and then go back to Sonny for Control and take the next action. Or scenario two: Sonny gets trapped in a room and cant get out. You take control of Keith and let Sonny out...

2) for this I mean that when Sonny talks to someone, they say something, then on a gui, you have a list of options to choose so that you can pick what Sonny says next. Depending on what you pick will reveal different things or make things easier or harder for the player.

3) Personally a system like in LSL 7 would be nice. You have a GUI and a text parser for special functions. Something like that would be nice in PQ2. I mean think about it, You are interrogating a suspect. You click the talk icon on him several times and he tells you everything. Or you use the dialog tree (Suggestion 2 above) and eventually you easily find all the answers. Rather, if you had a parser which allowed you options to enter other commands in addition to whats on the gui, it would make the game more interesting. I mean "ask about" "Tell" or "warn Colby" needs to be used in a parser.

Can you immagine calling Don Colby, clicking his face a few times and have it go something like this:

Click!
Colby: Hello
Click!
Bonds: Hi
Colby: What can I do for you?
Click!
Bonds: Bains is seeking revenge for those who testified against him...

OR even immagine the dialog tree system for this particular scenario:
Click talk icon on Colby!
Colby: Yes?

Your options:
1. Hi, my name is Sonny Bonds
2. Whats your favorite hobby?
3. Would you mind coming to the station to have a few words with us?
4. Bains might seek revenge on those who testified against him... Be careful!
5. I need to go now.

I mean come on, for the serious gamer, we all know to pick option 4 when we get to that part of the game. Where is the challenge in that?

Dont get me wrong, I think using the talk icon and having dialogue tree's should be in the game, but for certain elements, it should be up to the user to figure out all on his own.

4. Ok, if your not going to get rid of the driving, please dont put that stupid option of having to walk around the car before getting into it. Also, can you have the option to activate the police siren so that we can go through red lights and have high speed car chases without getting killed?

5. This has been discussed. But I do think we should allow Sonny to go home and be able to dig deep into his personal life. Judging from the way he keeps his locker and by the vibe I get from him in the original game... I think he is a neat freak personally!

I wanted to request three other things for the time being...

1) No speed cheating. What I mean by this is that in the original game you could just go to characters and ask them about other characters without getting any information on them. For instance, in PQ1, you can go up to one of your fellow officers (This is just an example of what I mean. I didn't try this particular scenario) and ask about Sweet cheeks Marie. And both you and the other person act as if you already encountered her in the game when you didn't. Can you make sure thats not possible? Like if you havent met the witness in jail that saw bains escape or even heard of him, dont just allow yourself to go the prison, and ask for the witness before having the event occur in the game.

2) Ok, when you pull your gun out and shoot, it would be fun to actually see if the bullet hits something or someone rather than jumping directly to a newspaper article that says you went nuts.

3) Walkie Talkie usage would be nice to since cops do use them. If not walkie talkies, maybe cell phones. It would be a good feature since this is common nowadays for people.

I wanted to ask also if Adjusting your sites on your gun and accessing the departments computer would be featured in the game?

By the way... Great graphics! Awesome job. I really hope this is another game that will be released fully. Plans for a talkie?

Wow big post, I'll try to answer everything as best as I can.

1. You're right about that, it would be pointless, but I would see that it wasn't pointless if I included the ability to control Keith - and I like your suggestions on using him that way in scenes etc.

2.  I will work on the dialog in GUIs at some point, and I'm taking notes of all your suggestions.  I'm definitely using a tree gui, and I'll consider using text-input for certain situations, I don't know how it will turn out - will be a bit before I'm quite ready to get into the dialogs, but I'll spend quite a bit of time on it until it's right.

3.  Yup, this could definitely work out.  I'm probably going to keep it as a simple talk GUI with a tell, ask button - where you are then able to choose a list or input an option yourself.  I don't know though yet, we'll see but this is a great idea.

4.  Isn't that requirement just a Police Quest 1 thing? I never really liked it, but it's probably ok in PQ1.  Well I'm still working out the details on the driving engine.  Going through a red without proper cause seems...well...kind of the opposite of being a cop.  But cops don't just blast through reds anyway, even in Code3 pursuits, that would be extremely dangerous and so it just doesn't make sense to me.

5.  I'm still going to sit on the idea of having him go home.  I'm considering it, but I just don't know how to approach that yet.



New questions:
1.  No there will be no way to progress in the game before you're supposed to.  I didn't know you could do that, but it sounds like a game design flaw to me.

2.  Drawing and firing your weapon is different.  There's a target icon and hopefully I'll be able to put bullets in more than a few things.  So yeah, you'll get your wish. ^^

3. Already added both of these.  Won't say anything else about it for now, they're in there though.

4.  Yup adjusting your sights is part of the game still, as is the department database - only it'll be an WinXP based screen on a laptop this time around.  I haven't gotten to either of those areas yet however.

Dude thanks again for all the comments and questions, I really appreciate them and all the feedback.

Driving the police car was one of my favorite parts of PQ1 and PQ3, so I was disappointed that in PQ2 the police car ran on autopilot.  I'm glad that driving will be in this game.  This looks to be a really great game.

I agree with you, driving for me was one of the highlights of those games.   I loved the driving in PQ1 EGA though, the arcade style movement and full map.  Other cars moving around, not just suspects, I liked that sort of thing - made it seem a bit more real.  I hope I can combine some of those missing elements into the current driving engine and make a really great driving sequence that people won't be begging to skip.

hey looks great so far! but dont over-do it on adding new features. some people(myself included) may not like you toying with something they have known so well and love dearly. eg. dont know about controlling extra characters. sure, add some extra npc's but like I said, dont over-do it! just imho.

as for driving home, well I also remember being able to go home(well, to marie's). it wasnt an apartment, it was a small white house, but I dont think you ever got to see inside.

I'm also anxious to see how you're gonna do the underwater part, seeing that you're going with photo-realism!

good luck!

Yeah, I figured from day one I would upset some fans, but it's really like a personal project for me first.  If somebody doesn't like it, they can play the original, yah?  Seems like a good solution.  But I'm just saying - I think I've probably overdone it already to be honest, but maybe you won't think so when you finally play it.  Who knows?  I'll do my best ^_^

I mean if I wanted to I could set the game up to have different unlockable levels, where the core game is mainly like the original but updated slightly - no extra characters, no extra scenes...just straight PQ2, and then the Extended stuff could be for after you've achieved things like full points or whatever.  That's an option too, I might go that route anyhow, I love unlockable stuff.

Yeah the underwater area will be a tough one, I'm probably going to snag some scuba diving cam-stills to see what I can manage from those.

It's been a very long time, but I'm sure you see his bedroom at least in 3, the first morning he is a detective - don't you see him wake up and get dressed?

Screens look really good BTW, keep it up!

So are you going for a CSI feel for this as well?

I have the game, I'll look through the resources and see if I can find something.

Yup! That's the reason for the new character as well, and I hope it turns out to be a lot of fun for everyone, add something new to the game you're already so familiar with (that is, if you've played it I guess).

Edit: OK I think you're right about the house in PQ3, however...that's the house Marie and Sonny live in after they're married.  I don't even think it's the same house that Marie lived in during PQ2 (it sure doesn't look the same).  So even so, it's not much of a glimpse into his single life.  Oh well...just going to have to make something up.

As for his apartment, this is the first I've seen or heard any reference to where Sonny lives - there's none in the game to my knowledge.

Now that you mention it, that IS rather odd, is it not? Especially in the first game, where you can drive all across Lytton, except that your own house is unlisted.

That's true....how about in PQ3, any mention there? I've played 3 through, but it was long ago.

Maybe I can add something, since I'm adding all this other stuff, I guess it's not too much of a stretch.  I think that's really a big deal, because if he lives in a bachelor pad styled apartment, that's messy, then you think "Ok Sonny is a messy slob."  But if it's really clean or if he has nice things in a decent condo or something, you'll think "Well that Sonny sure can manage his salary."  Or something.  But it changes how you see the character - and maybe they wanted him to be Joe-Run-of-the-mill- Patrol cop, so they left that out.  Or maybe they forgot.  Who knows right?

I will provide references and response to those on another day. I am leaving work right now.

But in regards to Sonny's apartment... In-game, type "drive home" and he goes there. I dont think he lives with Mary, or does he?

Not sure about that, I tried what you said to type in, both in the unmarked and personal car - and it gives the same response "You're already there."  Anyhow I knew there was no background for his place, it's not in the game because I've already dumped the entire thing.  As for his apartment, this is the first I've seen or heard any reference to where Sonny lives - there's none in the game to my knowledge.  And the girl, Marie Wilkans, she lives by herself in a small house that you go to in the game.

Neat! I look forward to a tutorial.

Can I ask for some other improvements in the game?

1) Can we take control of Keith?
2) Can we have a dialogue system where we can converse with other characters ala Indiana Jones and the last crusade adventure game?
3) A text parser to ask witnesses and people about other characters, eg: "ask about Don Colby" etc...
4) Can we please not have to drive ourselves to a location or can we atleast have an option to just pick a location off the map and it drives us there?
5) I would love to see the inside of Sonny's apartment...

These were elements missing from the original game that I wish were there...

1. Sure, I'll add it as something to unlock, how does that sound?
2.  I haven't played this game, I'll look into it.  I'm not locked into a certain style, but I do want to use a gui of some sort for dialogs.  Can you give me a sample of this or link me to one?
3.  I was just going to add a dialog list instead, but maybe an Ask/Tell/etc menu and then type in what you want to ask about in a box? I guess I could try that out?  I'll think about it anyhow.
4. Sorry, I can't really get rid of the driving bit, but I can make it more fun....or die trying.
5. He has an apartment?

That would be great if you could make a visual tutorial, also if you need actors for your game.  I would be more than happy to make a template of myself doing different things, if you need actors and such.  My email address is dean@team.bordernet.com.au if you would like my help.

I will either do a screen-cap tutorial or a youtube video, we'll see - but something and soon, but today I found myself too busy to do it.

Added a new WIP background to the first post, of what might work out as the interior of Lytton PD, Detective's Division.  It would be the left hallway, one of probably four hallway scenes in the PD to make up the entire building.  I have another background of the right hallway in the works, but I pretty much just need to figure out the layout of it and straighten some basic things out before I can really share it.

I was curious on how you do those backgrounds, I want to do something very similar and I was wondering how you do it.

Well there's no one certain way to make one.  They are all a little different.  I use photoshop, I'm sure many other programs work just as well, likely better (especially because I am blessed with CS3....).  First you find a photo with something you think will fit the scene.  You don't have to use the entire photo, it probably won't work out anyway.  But find a base, some large area, maybe just a building and some ground.  Now you can do many things, it's really up to you and your imagination. 

I like to keep textures as much as they are as possible, mainly because it's harder to recreate than it is to like say, use the clone tool and just extend areas you need.  I wouldn't worry about shading (sometimes you'll extend maybe, a piece of road, and the shadows change...ignore that) because odds are you will make your own shading.  You can go back and use burn or dodge to adjust shading, or you can use select tool on the area in question and use Selective-Color, and modify the neutral layer until your colors match or are smooth.  This helps a lot because it kind of evens things out, cleans the slate a bit.  You can use that to change the entire tone of an image too, or really just all kinds of coloring things, I love that tool.

Try to find photos of architecture that matches, find things in perspective if you can.  I have a tutorial on my website that works for Photoshop CS2 and up (possibly those before it too, but I have no idea), on how to make a perspective guide path.  What this is, is using the pen tool you lay down a path of perspective lines.  You align it to your horizon or your vanishing point verticals, and then you can select all the path lines and stroke the path onto a new layer.  That way, you can turn the layer on and off as you choose.   I use this when I'm editing a scene far beyond what the photo had in it, so that if I stray from perspective, I don't stray too far to where the background looks wonky or crazy.

There are other tools you can use.  Say you just want to extend some color and rough out shapes? Use the smudge tool on 100% and just drag that stuff around.  Need straight lines? Hold down shift while you drag your brush or tool around.  One more thing I can say I do alot of is blocking out selections.  Like say I have a blurry edge and I want to make a hard edge.  I'll select the area that I'm cloning/smudging/painting from, all the way up to my edge.  Then I'll work inside that box towards the edge, and PS will not allow me to go outside of it.  It's like having a temporary layer to work in, kind of.

Anyway talking about this and showing you how it's done are different things.  I'm really going to try and get some more backgrounds for the game done here in the next day or two - but after that I will gladly take a day and whip up some kind of new tutorial on this subject, so that this thread doesn't become a hi-jacked how-to.  I know Darth would not like that ^_^