Messages

Some interesting responses already.

Rui: That's a good point about a bias towards the visual arts in my post.  I think the visual arts translate more directly into games then other mediums, but it's always worth it to consider other types of art.  Of course, I couldn't make heads or tails of your musical example, but then, I can't even read music or play an instrument, so undoubtedly we all bring our own strengths and weaknesses with us when trying to think about games.  Also, thanks for all the examples!  I haven't played any of those games yet, but I'm sure they'll be a great inspiration.

Akatosh: Me Go Store is definitely art.  I would consider it an excellent example of minimalism or Art Brut, but most importantly, I consider it fun!

Onedollar: Of course comics count as art, and Freedom Force is a great example of an arty game done right.  I also would consider Myst to be an example of Surreal art: the player finds themselves transported to a dream-like world where bizarre machines function according to their own unique rules and logic.

Rui and Onedollar also brought up two related and important points: Onedollar never played The Last Express, though he has heard good things about it (same here) and he never finished the demo for Blue Ice.  Rui played several 'artsy' games, most of which he didn't enjoy.  The fact is, games that specifically try to be 'art' are interesting, but not interesting enough to hunt down or hold one's attention (in Onedollar's example) or they are just plain not fun (in Rui's case).

So the answer of how I would attempt to meld art movements with gamplay, is that I would still make gameplay king.  Frankly, I'm interested in making fun games, not games-as-art.  So I guess it would mostly be a regular adventure game, with the 'flavor' of a particular movement.

For an example, I'll try to explain my idea for my Surrealism game.  In the magazine the Surrealists published early in the movement, they would print 'dream accounts' as evidence of the importance of the subconscious blah blah technical blah.  A dream account was exactly what it sounded like: someone writes down whatever happened in a dream they had the night before.  My game would basically be an interactive dream account- except it would be in third person, with a featureless main character to represent the player.  The character would wander from place to place (as often happens in dreams), with each room of the game tenuously connected to the last.  The character would transform during the game, from black to white, male to female, etc.  Things would chase you and then lose interest, and I would constantly try to introduce new elements: changing the perspective from 3rd to 1st person, for instance. I would attempt to add a basic plot, but it would be very loose and unimportant: maybe the character loses a balloon, and follows it through a series of bizarre adventures. (If you ever read Harold and the Purple Crayon as a kid, you know what I'm trying for)

The puzzles would also attempt to follow dream logic, AKA "It made sense at the time" logic.  An example: The character finds himself at the shore of a lake, and he can't swim.  However, he notices a cloud overhead that is shaped exactly like a boat.  When the player clicks on the cloud, though, the main character suddenly grows tall enough to reach the cloud.  He is now so tall that he simply walks across the lake, without needing the cloud-boat at all.

The more I describe it, the more think that it's pretty much useless to try to explain it in words.  But the main point is, I wouldn't be merely copying the visual characteristics of an art movement.  I'm thinking of including a clock that melts as an homage to Dali, but otherwise, there would be almost no connection to the iconography of the Surrealists.  I'm just using their design philosophies and ideas as a springboard to come up with my own unique 'atmosphere' and 'attitude' for a game.

A while back, I was pondering the age-old (and by this point, very boring) question: Are videogames art?  The answer doesn't really matter, but the question led me to another question: why doesn't someone make a game that embodies an established art movement?  Although many games may be visually inspired by art from the past, not many people try to take the essence of what a movement was about and translate it into a game.

So far, I've been bouncing ideas around in my head for Cubism: the Game, Surrealism: the Game, and Hat Explosion Thursday: A Dada Game-Construct.  I could elaborate on my ideas, but I'd much rather hear yours.  What art movements would you like to see translated into games?  What would the plot/main concept/theme of the game be?  What would it look like?

And on a lesser but related note, are there any other folks on this board who share my interest in art history, or am I the sole bourgeois intellectual snob here?

Idea: Makeout Patrol
(I love the idea of a point n click Doom-it's so completely contrary and wrong)

All else: JB
(Execution is superb, yadda yadda.)



-Negative votes for myself, for forgetting to follow the extremely simple rules, and half-assing an entry in under 10 minutes.

-Honorary mention (but no votes  ) to Rui for a great parody of one of my favorite childhood games.

Hey, Lionmonkey.  According to threads I've read in the past, the only thing that can keep your game from being featured on the website is if it qualifies as hard-core pornography (meaning it features, as GarageGothic so elegantly put it, a "massive erect cock").  Anything else should be fair game as long as you warn downloaders if it contains sex, violence, potty mouth, etc.

Of course, we're all going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're including possibly offensive material (rape, incest, etc.) as part of a serious and dramatic storyline, and that the material will be treated with maturity and intelligence.

Because doing otherwise would be a major waste of our time.

Actually, isolation has tended to encourge feelings of superiority which can later lead to violence.  For example, Japan's invasion of China during WWII - though they'd been provoked by invasion attempts by China in the past, I think the feeling of national superiority is what inevitably leads to delusions of world policing or world conquest.  America, of course, is the most popular example.  Our long history of isolationism has led to arrogance and the "USA#1!" mentality, even though our economy is now in the process of being outstripped by Asian competitors, and we have a long history of botched wars done for the sake of maintaining our own interests.

In summary, I would agree that individuals should be left alone, but countries need to learn to play nice with others.

Well, if another popular thread is any indication, you should probably put some boobies in there somewhere.

But seriously, one thing that's often overlooked is having an interesting main character. Most indie game characters wind up having no personality or being rip-offs of popular adventure game archetypes- gruff detective, wise-cracking doofus, etc. I've found from personal experience while making my game that its really hard finding ways to express my character's personality without just telling the audience what he's all about. Of course, characters that are unique are the ones that end up being memorable, so it's worth putting some thought into while you're busy worrying about big-picture things like the interface.

Frankly, I don't trust myself to adequately predict what the players would attempt.

I just want to point out that you can always go back and modify the game after you release it, according to player suggestions.  Or you could have it extensively play-tested and write responses to all the commands the testers tried (Al Lowe used this method when creating Leisure Suit Larry 1).

I have a rather over-ambitious goal for my game, and I'm wondering if it's even possible: there are a total of 70 items the character can have over the course of the game, and I want to write a unique response for every possible 'use item on another item' interaction.  Quick math will tell you that that would be 70 x 70 = 4900 responses.  Now, writing them is a challenge in itself, but I'm more worried that it will slow down the game if the program has to skip over all that code every cycle.

So, will my game slow down to a crawl- and if so, should I use a room as a make-shift inventory, with objects for items, or what?

I thought it was a comment on the health-care system. You can't afford brand-name drugs, so you try the generic drugs, but they don't work, so you buy a gun and boom: health-care problem solved.

Edit: on a more constructive note, you could always use stick figures if you can't draw. Several successul webcomics use stick people (Cyanide & Happiness, etc.) Of course, making people-less comics is more unique.

Well, aside from the tentacles and skin color, he looks very human.
If he's an alien, why not give him more eyes or mouths or insect/animal facial features?

It's amazing how much a simple thing like desaturation can help a picture.

Looks very professional- honestly, I don't think anyone will be able to think of much to add or change.  I'd recommend moving on to another background. You're doing fine on your own.

Good luck with the game!

He didn't disappear, the invisibility-ness from his car just rubbed off on him.  That's not a bug, that's a feature!

Great little game considering how fast it was made, but I demand a more complete version now that the MAGS deadline has passed and you have the time to work on it (you can't even LOOK at the invisitrain- wasted opportunities, I mourn for you!)

This was the first thing I thought of. Yes, it's very stupid (but where's your entry?  )

The bullseye is the cursor, for you slow kids in the back.

Gotta agree.  The style is superb, and the story sounds interesting.

Just think small and make yourself a little map of all the rooms you'll need for your prologue story. The work seems much less overwhelming when you know exactly what you need to get done.  Plus any rooms that seem unnecessary (or too hard to draw) just throw 'em out.

At least, that's worked for me so far (10 rooms drawn! Woohoo!)

If you have any backgrounds sketched out, you should put your sprite in them and make sure it fits, scale-wise.  No point animating a sprite completely and then realizing it's too small for the background.

I forgot that step when making my own in-progress game, and it almost cost me a lot of work.

Looks better already.

When Babar said the views didn't match, he probably meant this:



See how the shoes are on the same level in the second pic? Also I made the brown a little darker.

Hope this helps.

Hey, glad to see you're still working on this.  I quite liked that last background you posted. You have a unique cartoony style that's very interesting.

Anyway, this looks good, but the chair's shadow was bugging me.



That's more realistic, I think.  Keep up the good work.

Your own corpse... from the future!

Da da daaaahhh!

Hey, there's nothing wrong with tracing over a photo.  If you're going for realism, why bother copying something exactly when you can just trace it?

But anyway, I just wanted to say that her lack of nose in the frontal view disturbs me. I know small noses are part of the style, but you could at least throw in a shadow to show where the nose is.

Oh, and it looks like you're off to a great start.  Good style, perspective, color-choice.  Just don't let the game ideas get out of control.  I was trying to think up a short idea for the last MAGS, and when I finally plotted it out, it was 26 rooms!  I think it's actually harder to plan something small than something big.  But at least you've got the art skills down.  That should make the work easier.

A device that can give someone youth or eternal life, but can also immediately age people or things if used incorrectly.
A treasure map that leads the map reader in a circle before ending up back in the place where they found the map.
A mask that looks exactly like the main character's face.  Put it on captured enemies so they'll be attacked instead of you.