Messages

Cheers for that

The download link is down :'(

[Edit:]

Missing a closing bracket on the end of the
cDom.Say("A table is a form of furniture composed of a surface supported by a base, usually four legs. ";
line.

Edit: And do you need }else if{ instead of just }if{?

Edit again: No, you probably don't actually

The ability to zoom the room background to make it easier to draw walkable areas and walkbehinds in the editor?

But still a check for translations would be made, wouldn't it, if only to check that there *are* no translations? And then the report of a null string is very careful, but still would make sense.

So you're saying AGS goes through all my text to see if a translation is available, regardless of whether I have any translation files or requests for translation, and having a null string upsets that and not the label I'm passing the text to? This is all I'm doing...

Code: ags

String somestring;
somelabel.text=somestring;  //just a label on a GUI

If its not a bug then that's fine. As I said its not really a problem either way.

Of course, a regular game could do that just as well.

Problem is, if you go to a random entry in the AGS database, it might not be ATOTK. The other problem is the user might want to just jump straight into game making, completely ignoring all the games that have already been made. If they have a demo game either included with AGS or linked to on the same page that AGS is downloaded from they're more likely to take a look. Code aside, a solidly built, decent looking demo sells the editor to someone who's just downloaded it, saying "If you put the time in, you can make something like this".

I don't think the game necessarily needs to do the whole stating script commands in-game, it seems a little like doing everything twice. As long as all the code is kept neat and well documented the user should be able to find the bits they're looking for with relatively little searching. I do think the game should make announcements about "This section of the game will demonstrate..." though.

Nice work! I've downloaded and completed both, and I'm having a hard time choosing which to vote for. Glad to see some people managed to get their entries completed in time.

No, you missed my point. I understand where the crash comes from and how to fix it, it's the actual error message that's the problem:

"Error: Null string supplied to CheckForTranslations"

What I'm doing has nothing to do with checking for a translation file

RUN

I'm not sure if I should post this here or not, but I've found a very, very small bug. If you make a new string without assigning any text to it, then set, say, a GUI label's text to that string the game compiles then when that code is run crashes with "Error: Null string supplied to CheckForTranslations". Something to keep in mind for 3.01?

I've not found any other problems, but keep coming across stuff I really like. The new editor's fantastic CJ!

And what do you mean by typed but not read? You mean you typed it but didn't review it to make sure it made sense?

Pretty much. Took around 2 hours to crank that out, so I really couldn't be bothered to read it through again

I pretty much agree with your choices (as you may be able to tell with the way I worded the options and the pros and cons ). I'm not flat against the idea of using mini-games, I just didn't like the way DQIII used them - you download the demo and load it up, but then suddenly find you need to go back and get a load of other files in order to see any examples, a fact that wasn't even properly explained in the game. Using it in the way you mentioned would be fine, as long as there is a decent amount of content in the original demo to warrant having it there. We also need to make sure that any instructions regarding the use of the expansions are very clear - remember we're talking about the people who try and run AGS by just extracting the .exe from the .zip archive here.

Or maybe 7 Days a Skeptic. Dang, now I feel n00bish

Where's [Cameron] gone?

You're just saying that so we'll suspect nothing when the Wintermute server gets hacked

I never really checked Wintermute out. I had a look in their forums which seemed dead, checked out some screenshots and decided that I couldn't be bothered to learn it when I already knew AGS. Most of that list can be overcome with a bit of scripting, or has already been added, and the community here's great anyway.

[Graphics]

Could someone possibly list all the features that the demo game is supposed to have (gameplay-, design-, plot- and art-wise)?

OK, lets have a go at that then. Monster post coming up. Here's my list of things a demo could have...

Graphics
1) Showcase the best AGS can offer. 800x600 32-bit pre-rendered 3D backgrounds and characters, and high quality 2D background and character examples too. Lots of animation. Effects using alpha channels.
Pros
-People will see from the off that AGS can offer more than just 320x240 256 colour games staring a paintover of Roger
-Might convince people that the best AGS can offer is good enough for them
-Demo immediately looks impressive
Cons
-The time it would take to put together
-Needs some of the best AGS artists to put their time into it
-When it comes to pushing graphics, AGS doesn't go as high spec as Wintermute. It might not be wise to start competing with one of their stronger points
-Demo doesn't give that nostalgia feel that makes you remember games from your childhood, and makes you want to make something like them

2) Show just what can be done using 256 colours and low resolution. Use pallet cycling and other effects. Produce Monkey Island 2 type graphics and characters
Pros
-Show that 320x200 and 256 colours can be used very well if done properly
-Could mention that AGS can offer higher as well in a kind of "This is good, but you can also do better" kind of way
-Demo immediately looks impressive and offers a nostalgia to those who've played the Sierra/LucasArts games
Cons
-Might give bad vibes about what AGS can cope with
-Same problem with the artists, but now a different group of artists is required.

3) Make an average looking game and go for demonstrating features. It doesn't matter if the backgrounds aren't the best ever seen, or if the art is a little different in places, this is about the engine. 320x240 at 16-bit.
Pros
-Don't need to spend a huge amount of time on the art
-Several people can work on art at the same time without worrying about style clashes
-Potentially easiest resolution to work at?
-More time can be spent working on the demo itself
Cons
-While it might look ok, its pretty much guaranteed not to look the best it could be
-Style clashes
-Might put people off, thinking that you can only create old-school games with poor graphics

Gameplay
1) A series of tech demos and nothing more. Maybe very limited user control, such as changing parameters, but nothing else. Essentially a slideshow of things AGS can do
Pros
-Uncluttered, quicker and easyish to produce
-Less testing required
-Can be added to easily
Cons
-More boring for the user than other methods
-Doesn't showcase any gameplay
-Boring to make!

2) A slightly more interactive version of the above. The player can walk into different rooms where they are shown some of the things AGS can do.
Pros
-Demonstrates a little gameplay
-Requires more interaction so gets the player more involved
Cons
-No real gameplay is exhibited

3) More interactivity, in a similar way to the hall of GUIs. The player is told about a feature, then is allowed to experiment with it themselves within certain confines, eg a room that has a parser interface which the player must use to solve a puzzle.
Pros
-Demonstrates how the features could be used in actual games
-Involves the player a lot more
Cons
-Might be harder to develop
-Needs more testing

4) A demo masked as a game where not only can the player wander around experimenting with the functions of AGS, but they actually have to solve simple puzzles to get to the more advanced features.
Pros
-Lots of user involvement
-Provides goals, so players will continue to play rather than just looking at the features they like the sound of
-Fun to make!
-Hopefully fun to play
Cons
-The only way for players to see certain bits is by solving puzzles or hacking the source code
-The puzzles would have to be delicately balanced

5) An actual game. Story, proper puzzles, the lot. The game keeps bringing in new features as the player advances, such as changing the interface, or a puzzle that uses timers etc.
Pros
-User involvement
Cons
-Getting stuck
-Inbuilt linearity
-Potentially harder to make in a group setting

Story
1) Have a plot, story, characters to talk to, points to score
Pros
-Player involvement
-Allows for creativity when making the game
-Opportunity to show our friendly and humorous sides to get more people onto the forums and into the community
-More fun to play
-More fun to make!
Cons
-Extra time needed for designing
-'Redundant' graphics required
-More work

2) No story, just demos
Pros
-Easier and quicker to make
Cons
-Makes us just another faceless engine

Actual content
1) Stuff happens without being flagged up in demo, and its up to the user to think "I wonder how they did that" and go and check the script themselves
Pros
-Allows programmers to concentrate on getting the code straight and well documented
-Demo runs more smoothly
Cons
-May not occur to the player to check the script
-Player may have trouble finding the demonstration in the script
-Player may not notice some poor programmer's masterpiece of 36 hours

2) Quick demonstration of something, eg "This is how a global integer works. You choose a number in this room and I'll tell you what it is in this room", where the user has to check the script to see what actually happens.
Pros
-Player gets an understanding of why you would want to use something
-Potential for more interactivity
-Opportunity to show off!
Cons
-Have to keep pointing stuff out

3) Demonstration followed by a brief explanation in game.
Pros
-Player finds out how things work as well as why and why they would want to use them
-Two explanations available - in game and in code
-Player doesn't necessarily have to find the demo in the code
Cons
-Two explanations

4) Actual teaching. Like the above, but the game goes through how the process works in more detail and is much more of a tutorial than a demonstration.
Pros
-Filter out some of the Beginner's Questions?
-Friendly explanations
-Immediately useful
-More interactive way of learning
-Alternative/supplement to the tutorials in the manual
Cons
-Slows the player down on the bits they already know
-Lots of text for them to read
-Is the point of the Demo Quest demoing or teaching?

5) Some kind of look and see teaching method. Game is designed to be run in a window with the code open as well, and the game points out lines of the code to the user
Pros
-Arguably the best way of teaching
-Encourages the player to follow the flow of the game in the script as it happens
-I've not seen it done before
Cons
-Would AGS let you do this?
-Can't make last minute changes to the script
-Quite hard to implement
-The easiest way would be launching the game using the debugging mode, but if the game's running in 320x200 or something it could be quite hard to see what's going on in game
-Potentially confusing for someone who runs the demo standalone

Continuity
1) Demo is released as sections are finished and added to the build. Doors refuse to open or don't take players anywhere. Stuff is mentioned in game that hasn't been added yet.
Pros
-Can add new sections in by, say, just changing a walkable area to teleport the player
-Don't have to worry about removing visible blocks or changing artwork
Cons
-Player is left wondering why they can't get to a certain place
-Player doesn't know what is missing or incomplete and whether they're running into a dead end or not

2) Demo is released as sections are finished, but missing sections are clearly blocked off in each release, and player is made aware that something is 'coming soon' or not finished yet.
Pros
-Player knows what they can and cannot do
-New additions may be more obvious in each new release
Cons
-Game retains an unfinished look
-Need to keep an overall idea of what will be added later and where

3) Demo is released in completely sealed off sections. There are no dead ends in a release. When a new release is being worked on, doors, objects, features etc are added to what is already there to link to new sections
Pros
-Demo doesn't feel unfinished
-Potentially easier to add to
Cons
-Each version has to be designed so that these places can be added to it

4) Multiple standalone demos. If a story is being used, these are parts of that story. For example, Demo 1 shows you how to use different GUIs in different places, and demo 2 shows how to do less inventory based puzzles, such as timed puzzles
Pros
-Depending on how it is handled, could result in quicker releases
-Allows each demo to remain compact and simple
Cons
-More artwork required?
-Lack of continuity
-Potentially loads of different demos
-Difficult to group/end up with a mess of different features in different places

5) The demo team generates a big list of things they want to show. Everybody picks a few features off the list and makes a demo showing them and how to do them. The demos are released as standalone and/or as mini games in a 'menu' program
Pros
-Quicker and more regular releases
-Allows people to concentrate on a few areas, and work on the areas they know most about
Cons
-No continuity
-Variation in programming styles/quality
-Every demo would be small and the end user would be left with lots of files to download to see everything


Personally
The first time I downloaded AGS was many years ago. I don't know what version it was, but DemoQuest II was the example game (I've never seen DQ1). I thought that was great, I'd just found the engine, hadn't played any games made with it and here was something that demonstrated how I could make all these different types of games right the way from the text parser to the LucasArts 9-verb system. It also presented a friendly face to the engine. Back then however I didn't think I could program and eventually gave up with AGS when I discovered you couldn't make a game using the interactions editor alone.

Couple of years later and after completing a computing A-Level (and discovering that programming was exactly what I had been doing with RM2K for several years) I came back to AGS and taught myself how to use it. DQIII is now around and I check it out, and frankly was a little disappointed. In the several years that I'd been away from the program, all DQ had managed to do was strap more of a story onto itself, replace it's main character with a girl and confusingly place all its GUI examples in mini-games that I couldn't initially figure out how to get to work. I'd never really looked at the code behind DQII so I didn't appreciate the massive amount of work that had gone into converting and documenting that. Aside from that DQIII disappeared for ages due to Rick changing servers or something, so I taught myself to use AGS without it.

I'm not really sure what the point of the above two paragraphs is, but I guess it shows you where I'm coming from. I thought DQII was great, and its exactly the sort of thing I'd like to work on. Adding a vague story, some easy puzzles, some stuff that has nothing to do with the features being demonstrated is not only a great way of housing the features it also makes the game and hence program seem more friendly. It also suggests ease of use - look its so simple to make a point and click in AGS that we stuck this character in here for you to have a conversation with, and in fact the whole demo you're playing is an adventure game itself. Plus it gives you more creativity and freedom to play around with, and that's why we're here right? Because we like making adventure games?

Those are my several cents, what I will (also) say is that you need to not only decide what the demo is for, but also who its aimed at. What kind of people are you trying to attract? Do you want new users to come in, get inspired and boost the catalogue of games? Do you want to show existing or newer users how its done? Do you want to combat the features of Wintermute and the other adventure game makers out there?

In my opinion, which you might have had enough of by now, graphics aren't all that important. What you want to demonstrate is the ease of use, the wide range of things it can accomplish, the friendliness of the forums. Also I would only use the mini-game module once, for demonstrating it alone, and with the files distributed along with the demo. The mini-game thing is too confusing for a newbie. I also see no reason why you can't have a couple of standalone demos as well, showing off AGS's hi-res stuff, or non adventure gaming abilities.

OneDollar
Typed but not read

Edit: And will someone give Dualnames some recognition?

I'm sorry to hear that JuuL. Personally it took me three attempts before I had a game finished. Poor Jim here

didn't make it past a couple of empty looking rooms and an awful excuse of a plot. The lesson I learned there was
(5) Don't significantly change your idea part-way through production
and to a certain extent what you already said about graphics.

My next attempt used hand drawn graphics, (which I found weren't really any faster than drawing on the computer), but I didn't get past the first room because I got stuck on coming up with the puzzles. I actually released that in demo form, but not surprisingly it didn't win. That lesson was
(6) Work out 99% of your story and puzzles before you even open AGS. If something's not going to work, there's no point spending time making it when you could have seen it and fixed it earlier

I'd also like to offer point (7) as
(7) It has to be an idea you're enthusiastic about. If you let one day slip without working on it, then another, then another suddenly you've invested several hours work into something you just can't finish in the time limit

I guess (8.) is
(8.) If you're not having fun doing it, why are you bothering?

No, forget that last point, MAGS needs some more entries!

Still, assuming someone actually enters and wins this month, there's always next month!

If the idea is to build something from scratch then I'm certainly interested. I'd count myself as a fairly competent AGS scripter, especially with the basics, and its the part I most enjoy, but I can also do sprites and backgrounds, though anything half decent takes me quite a while to do. I'm also willing to contribute towards writing story, dialogue and puzzles.

The two potential problems are...

1) I'm by no means the best in any area. There are several of the more advanced scripting techniques that I'm a little shaky on (I've not had the time to figure out the drawing options yet, for example), I'm not the best artist if you're looking to produce stunning artwork that will inspire people to download AGS and make their own games, and I've not got a huge amount of past experience (though I have made a game and been playing around with the engine for a year or two)

2) I'm unsure on the time I'll have. My uni semester starts next week so I don't have an idea of how busy I'll be at the moment. I can't (at the moment ) see a problem with the "few hours a week", but I will get projects to write up and exams to sit (and judging by today, at least one to resit :'(), so there will certainly be times I can't contribute at all.

By all means count me in for further discussion though, DemoQuest was really helpful and inspiring when I first downloaded AGS, and its a project I'd love to contribute towards.

And by the way, I'll add my thanks for the work that Rick and others have already done on the project

[WATCH THE FILM BEFORE READING THIS!!!]

From the bottom up:

I agree with InCreator, the third film was the weakest and most mainstream, but there were quite a few jokes in there that genuinely made me smile and as something that was done in 48 hours it was pretty good.

The Cardiac Oak film started fairly interestingly. The central theme of

Spoiler

clockwork trees and a tree doctor that goes around winding them up

[close]

was quite interesting, but then the film didn't really seem to take it anywhere. Was the

Spoiler

projector bit about the tree using its last bit of life to remember the doctor as a young girl?

[close]

There were lots of good ideas, but they didn't seem to get taken very far. Also, I was a little confused about

Spoiler

the large bags of what I guess were 'tree hearts' that the doctor had. Has she been looking after all these trees from childhood and now they're all dying as her monastery crumbles and she gets older?

[close]

I'm still trying to work a lot of it out

As for Flapwing? I absolutely loved it. The tone, the story, the dash of Myst-like other-worldliness and loneliness. It was brilliant. This was the story as far as I interpreted it... WATCH THE FILM BEFORE READING THIS!!!

Spoiler

A scientist is working on trying to extract energy from different types of mushrooms, using some process to do with sound. He spends his days alone in his laboratory doing his experiments and keeps meeting with failure.

Then the butterfly arrives and he remembers something he read about a butterfly emitting supersonic pulses. He performs some calculations and decides to try the butterfly in the experiment. In actual fact the butterfly places itself on the equipment, and after he tunes the apparatus he gets a huge amount of energy. The experiment complete, the scientist tells his boss of his discovery.

Some time later we see the scientist sitting down watching television. On the TV are images of a huge and devastating explosion, reminiscent of an atomic bomb. Up until this point the themes have been very much to do with nature and gentleness - extracting energy from nature, the scientist is obviously a gentle man, the butterfly flying onto the equipment on its own accord etc - but they are contrasted sharply with this butterfly-shaped explosion, and we realise that the scientist's work has been used to create a powerful and destructive weapon.

[close]

I might not have got it 'right', or missed some other ideas, but that's how I saw it. Really, really liked it

Those are my thoughts anyway.

The fact that every celebrity marriage, divorce, pregnancy, rehabilitation programme and drunken brawl with photographer  nearly always occurs in the run-up to a major single, album, movie release.

If there is a pattern, maybe you're looking at it the wrong way? Perhaps its because of the stress involved in the run up to major singles, albums and movie releases that causes these breakdowns?

Yeah, maybe OneDollar confused Ogg Vorbis with the lossless Ogg Flac

Its more likely I don't know what I'm talking about
I remember .ogg had a lot of pros over .mp3, but I must have got the losslessness wrong. I'm a sucker for anything open source anyway...

[In first place]

Right, lets wrap this one up. I'm afraid I'm too busy at the moment to make trophies, so if you want one feel free to paint your entry gold and mount it.

In first place
[Cameron] with his Spacemonkey! I love the drawing and the monkey's expression here.

In second place
Ilmion with Captain Hook's hand. Nice idea that.

In third place
Dualnames with FSi's capsule. That's far scarier than 6 Days a Stranger.

So congratulations [Cameron], the responsibility is now yours!