Messages

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IPAGXyFvrs&feature=player_embedded

Damn it. Missed the deadline once again.

But don't wait for me, I won't have the time to finish it today and perhaps neither tomorrow.

Same thing happened to me, elsewhere...

For a good game, try Clock Toweron a SNES emulator. Scissor Man!

My god 2ma2 exists

DON'T JYNX IT!!

If only we had more gay jews on this forum, we could ask them if it's offensive...

Well as only part of a jew (1/2... does that make me a Je or an Ew?) I don't think my opinion counts for much. Dave Gilbert made "The Shivah" AND he live sin New York, right? He's gotta be full-on Jew... somebody PM him. 

Dont be too scared of 3D especially with Maya, Maya is one of the easiest 3D modelling tools out there in my opinion and I have used them all...Blender, 3DS Max, Cinema 4D and I think your discribing Bryce 3D. As high-end 3D packages go you cant go too wrong with Maya. I used to be a 3DS man but had to learn maya..very quickly! for a job and now I would never go back (but thats me and I know alot of people that have tried maya and hate it...).

BRYCE 3D! That's it!

Well you shouldn't be too scared of PS, either! I think I'll pop into my school lab and mess around with Maya, then...

[Technique]

Technique - TheRoger - You said yourself that you tried your hand at a style your not familiar with, and I think you managed quite well! With a bit of practice and maybe fiddling with the brush settings, you'll get there or even better acquire your own unique style...

I agree! I love how you did your grass, BTW.

I think I disappeared for like a year or two... Silly "life stuff." =P

First of all these programs are nothing like obamacare.  They function the same as private insurance in that they are not involved in the delivery of services and only make payments on behalf of their beneficiaries.

It's unfair to make this assessment as the entirety how how the new healthcare reform bill will function has not been solidified.

This is widely reported and documented. You can start with the Wikipedia articles ...

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html World Health Organization Rankings
http://www.photius.com/rankings/who_world_health_ranks.html Support for the rankings

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/weekinreview/27sack.html?_r=1
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/13/AR2008051302599.html
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0002181
http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/rep_index.cfm?DR_ID=52138
Links referring to the disparity or healthcare in America

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html
Infant Mortality Rate by the CIA

She has private insurance for which she pays premiums.   The insurance company receives some payment from the government for assuming Medicare's obligations.   It is my understanding that her insurance current plan is illegal under obamacare.

My understanding is that she's set! As long as she is covered by a healthcare provider either privately, through federal means, or a combination of the two she is okay. One of the biggest things that changed in the early iterations of the bill was that existing healthcare coverage will not be invalidated.

This not the case.  My wife does language interpretation for medical professionals.  She deals with people in this circumstance  on a daily basis and often complains that they receive better care than our family and friends.

Medicare/medicaid are limited service. They're TOO limited. I think that they could play a greater role in providing healthcare for the uninsured but they're not a be-all end all.  Besides, if they're getting better healthcare and paying less: wouldn't you want to be on it?

Such decisions are inevitably based on political expediency.   Can you not see the immorality of a system where a group group of human beings decide who shall live and who shall die so as to derive the maximum benefit for their benefactors?   In the US system (up til now) the people at least retain their freedom to choose.

Who is deciding who lives or dies? If there's evidence that they've revived Das Herrenvolk, I think we should tell somebody.

People have the right to choose? Like the hundreds that have died A YEAR after Hurricane Katrina, due to related causes because they didn't have healthcare? Or the thousands of people under the age of 25 living on their own (sometimes with kids) who can't break into an industry that pays good enough for them to buy healthcare or offer healthcare? Those people don't really have a choice, do they?

Khris, you are mis-informed.  Poor people who can't afford health care are covered by a government program called Medicad.  They receive the same services as anybody else, sometimes even better. My wife deals with such people on a daily basis.    Further it is against the law for hospitals and doctors to deny medical treatment regardless of their ability to pay.

Don't be naive. If this were the case do you really think we would be having this debate? People that can't afford healthcare ARE NOT covered by medicaid or medicare. Those that ARE do receive good levels of care. It is NOT against the law for hospitals and doctors to turn you away if you can't pay and even if they DO NOT turn you away you then become personally responsible for the hundreds to thousands of dollars that a typical examination costs.

I think this it's the normal case that people who don't know what's in the bill support it and the people who do know what's in it don't support it.   Maybe if you knew and understood what it says you wouldn't support it either?

I've said it before and i'll say it again, the litigation is still in effect. How the bill will ultimately respond is still unknowable until that time.

You are mis-informed.  The US was founded on the principle of personal liberty and freedom from oppressive government and that such freedoms are acquired by virtue of being a human being and not bestowed on anyone by a king or politburo as is the case in all or almost all other countries.

The Declaration of Independence? I am talking about the establishment of the United States as a Capitalist society, not the United States of a Fledgling America.  The REASON we were founded was because we wanted to establish a government that afforded and protected our human liberties and freedoms that were previously repressed. The story of the founding isn't the establishment of modern America. Overtime we have become a different beast entirely and there is no deny that capitalism is our greatest core value, as a nation. That's not misinformed, that's reality.

I agree with you that businesses are in business to make money (mostly) and that typically the best way to be a sucessful business is to offer a core product that is superior than your competition. If that we're the case, however, we'd all be flying JetBlue, using Mac's, browsing with Opera and eating at McRamsays.

JetBlue is a discount no-frills airline that fly a limited number of routes, Apple products look nice but have always been under-powered and over-priced, Opera is a fat black woman with a TV show, and I have no idea what a McRamsays is.  Why do you think everyone would make the same lousy choices?  

JetBlue is the best airline for the money. You pay less and get more. It runs a limited number of routes because financial it is limiting to exist in all major hubs. It is currently expanding... This is the concept that I was trying get across. JetBlue is more superior than +70% of the commercial domestics flights that I've been on (and I fly alot.) If your concept was true then they would be the largest airline in America as opposed to the CLUSTERFLUCK that is Delta.

Apple products may be over-powered and under priced but are they a superior product (for the average consumer) than a Windows based PC or Linux based PC? Linux is getting close to being ready for primetime but its still not there. I had to jump through hoops to get my scanner to work! And GIMP just isn't photoshop... InkScape just isn't illustrator... and my old windows PC crashed!! OH NO! But My Parents macs are 6 years old and still zippy as hell!

Opera is statistically proven to be the fastest, most secure web browser currently available and it's also available on the broadest array of platforms. IE (the most used web browser in internet land) is a buggy, bloated, hacktastic, crapfest.

Gordon Ramsay is arguably on of the best Chefs in the world and has a reputation for being able to make EXTREMELY delicious food from very cheap ingredients. McDonalds instead contributes to the industrialization of the American agriculture industry which having grown up on a farm in Wisconsin, I can tell you is NOT the way you want your food being raised/grown.

At the end of the day it's all about profits and share holders. Somebody needs to keep companies accountable.

I agree to some extent. I wouldn't use the term hybird though.  I think a Medicaid type of system could be extended so that is not an all or nothing deal.  Currently if you earn over a certain amount you don't qualify period.  It could just as easily been setup so that people who have income below a certain amount would have a 100% goverment subsidized health insurance.  Then as an individual's income increases above a certain amount the subsidy decreases and the individual pays the remaining part of the premium.  Of course the problem with this is that it doesn't give any political advantage to the democrat party.

I agree, the political posturing is retarded. Medicare/Medicaid could EASILY be expanding to exist on a sliding income scale. Everyone already pays for it, a small hike wouldn't be that big of a deal.  People making under a certain amount get 100% compensation and all the way up to a certain income level means you will get 10% compensation. Then pistol whip the HELL out of the insurance companies, make them get their shit together and then we can all go out to dinner. Problem solved.

With Tea Parties, Coffee Parties, Libertarians... I think we're getting closer and closer everyday to a post-bipartisan Political system and I STRONGLY believe that once (if) that scale tips, we'll be better for it.

You would be dealing with a doctor, at a hospital who are under the thumb of a government bureaucrat.

We're not talking about the CIA here. Do you really think it would be cost effective for the US government to micromanage doctors like that? Not only would it make zero political sense, it would make zero financial sense and would cause a failure in the healthcare system as the doctors resentment pushed them into rebellion, which would ultimately force the system to be REreformed.

Hmmm, I never heard of any Tea Party folks advocate the abolition of all taxes.   They seem to be in favor of a limited federal government,  a fiscally responsible federal government,  and one that interferes as little as possible in the free market.  More like the first kind of conservative you talk about.

That would be correct, however the Tea Party isn't a party, doesn't have an official platform and doesn't have any Unity. I've been to three different Rallys here in Ohio and they all talk about almost completely different things. I truly believe that the Tea Party movement at its ROOTS are fundamentally sound, but the message has gotten so convoluted and muddied by people with only the greyest semblance of what the original message was... and that's then you get the shambling muttering masses that take things to extremely that are border line insane. Those are the people that represent the message.

I thought you were describing the far left liberals in the US,  hehe - go figure

I don't live in New England or California, so I haven't met any...  
I suppose that could be said for all "Fundamentalists" "Extremists" or "Wings."

A health savings plan type of thing gives incentive to patients to self-limit their access to the system.  The way it typically works is that a portion of the premiums the insurance company receives  is placed in a savings account setup for the individual and the other portion is used to purchase a high deductible insurance plan.  The individual uses the money in the savings account to pay for doctor visits and prescriptions.   If money is left in the account at the end of the year the individual keeps it tax free.  If all the money is spent then the individual has met his deductible and the insurance benefits kick in.   This was passed into law by the republicans under Bush but has now been eliminated obama and the democrats.

The bill does not effect previous bills and no laws have been repealed, so I'm not sure how this would STOP being true. Playing along party lines isn't something that you want to instigate, either. Under Bush, our Education system saw it's lowest numbers in relation to the world, our defecit ballooned year after year, we collapsed foreign relationships to almost NIL and we saw increases in illegal immigration. The last 5 years of his presidency were a joke. Regan? I'll give the republics him... HELL, even Bush Sr., was good. Kennedy, Carter and Clinton we also good leaders for the Democrats. However, virtually all of them (maybe with the exception of Carter) we're crooks and liars. There's no question that Bush was the least effective president for the past 30 years. Both parties have their good and bad and I don't think it's fair to ascribe ANY achievements in recent American Political History to either party. I find it amazing that both parties have people with political beliefs that are all over the place... I really think there should be more than two parties, because there aren't only two solutions, or two correct choices.

Try Eyeglass world or Wallmart.

Exam+Frames+Lenses
My girlfriend accidently broke my last pair and they're a prescription from when I was 17, they hardly worked and I am unable to track down where I got the prescripton from, anyways. Wallymart told me $150 for the exam, frames starting at $20 (really lame frames, but whatever) and lenses typially cost around $70+ It's extra for astigmatism (DAMNIT,) scratch protection (let's be real that is essential,) and a warranty (how is this not included? I didn't ask if it was an extended warranty or not...)

I've got two more pairs of contact lenses so I'm biding my time because money is tight...

Obama and the democrats passed their health care reform bill so now you have coverage right?

A.) The bill isn't finalized and is going through a process of revisions that are going to take forever
B.) It is most likely that the full rollout of changes won't be completed until 2016
C.) My situation won't get any better until I get a new job but somebody else's might, in the future

My Political Opinions are thusly:
1.) I believe in a strong federal government who's primary interest is the welfare of all citizens and individual present in the country. (This would include making sure they all have healthcare by some measure rather than no measure.)
2.) I believe that the representation system is flawed. State governments rarely listen to their public. The Californian proposition system is an interesting format for guaranteeing that the populace has power, but it is flawed. I think that state governments should seek ways of more actively engaging their public to shape legislature.
3.) Democrat = Wrong
4.) Republicans = Wrong
5.) The welfare of all is more important than the success of some.
6.) Stay off my lawn, out of my house, away from my family or I will kill you... unless you're invited over for a barbecue.
7.) Feed a man a fish, he east for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for a life time. Correctional institutions need to focus more on rehabilitation for non violent/sexual offenders and need to have a standardized recommendation for various crimes across all states. No more getting life for weed possession while RapistMcGee is out in 12 Years. Additionally, there should be a rehabilitation center for homeless individuals.
8.) Mitt Romney should NEVER be president... His head is FAR too long.
9.) What is and what isn't taxed is completely fucked up. We need to eliminate the capital gains tax. More heavily tax major corporations. Give tax breaks to smaller comnpanies and more tax breaks to individuals operating businesses. Additionally taxes should be placed on financial entities (default swaps, credit papers, debt obligations, etc...)
10.) Credit companies and Debt collection should be more heavily regulated and observed.
11.) Our education system needs a complete overhaul... actually virtually ALL federal institutions need an overhaul, to be more effective AND save money.
12.) Lobbyists should be outlawed and politicians taking assets from private entities or from those representing private entities should be considered as having revived bribes. Corporations deserve protection under American laws but they do not take precedence over people. American people don't have lobbyists, or thousands of dollars to donate, or ad campaigns we just have tax dollars and if that's not good enough for politicians to eat off of, they're not good enough to be fed by us.
13.) Buying a home for the first time (or the first time in 7 years) should always grant a tax break, which would decline for every house you purchase every 7+ years. This will help get people into homes as opposed to renting which will provide the government with tax money, the banks will mortgage money which the will use to pay back their loans from the federal bank. Additionally, the interest rates for federal loans should be between 60-100% of the interest rate that a bank/credit/corporation charges its loanees.
14.) Small government is good but is flawed. Larger government is small but flawed. We need a medium sized government willing to accept its flaws and correct them where it can and we simply CANNOT get that done with people on the extremes and no-one bringing them together.
15.) Puppies>Kittens

EDIT:

We probably all agree that freedom to choose is invaluable, but the quasi-monopolies of corporations like Microsoft mean that consumer choice is often an illusion. If you want to test this, try choosing to buy affordable clothing made by people who were paid decently using environmentally sustainable materials. Clothing companies could offer that choice, but it's far more profitable not to.

Good point Ali!

Or try buying a diamond:
You can go to Kay Jewlers, or Jared Jewlers or J.B. RObinson, or LeRoys, or Ostermann, or Belden, or Shaws, or Goodmans, or Westhall, or Rogers, or Friedlanders, or Mark & Morgan, or Adison, or Orange Blossom... except they're all the same company.

Or an Album:
You can buy from Interscope, or Geffen, or A&M, or Octone, or DGC, or Island, or Def Jam, or Mercury, or Motown, or Republic, or MCA, or Mercury, or Nashville, or Lost Highway, or Universal Latino, or Fonovisa, or Disa, or Machete, or Verve, or GRP, or Impulse, or Forecast, or Decca, or V2, or Fontana, or Show-Dog, or Polydor... except they're all the same company.

I'm imagining that this will be difficult to animate doorways and other background related things. Have you given thought to how you'll achieve or bypass this?

I have two huge books on Maya... going to be using it in a few months for class... 3D programs intimidate me. I remember playing around with this one 3D program that was able to pretty quickly make some interesting landscapes... and shiny balls. Can't remember the name of it though...

Good improvement on that last image, though! I personally liked more glow off the bed/chair. While we're on the subject of making me happy the purple things have too little glow now and I was envisioning less glow from the red cubes...

Make me happy... NOW DAMNIT! =P

EDIT: Oh no- it's changed on me. Brain- still processing- changes done so quickly.... *MELTDOWN*

...the "invisible hand" doesn't magically make everything right...

Agreed.


I should also point out my end of the spectrum. I was just laid off about a week and a half ago. I had fully covered healthcare. Now I can't afford new glasses ($300 WTF?!) nor can I afford even the cheapest quote that I've received for healthcare ($490/mo.) With 3 years experience in management, a year of marketing/business administration and a years worth of Media Arts/Animation/Graphic Design (should've stuck with one major until I got my Associates...) you would think that find a decent job would be easy...

Nope.

For the foreseeable future, I better not run out of contacts, need dental work, get seriously injured, need surgery, get sick, need prescription medication (for new OR previous diagnosis) or require a therapist for any physical/mental/emotional reasons.

If I paid a tax for healthcare (like I did for buying a crateful of grenades/pay a cops salary/inspect some dead cows for disease/fix some potholes in a highway/deliver someones mail) I could get new glasses! I could see a dentist (appointment is in 2 months!) I could let a therapist know that i'm feeling a bit depressed at my whole situation. I could get medicine for my flu (hope there's no pigs in it!) I wouldn't be worried about getting into a car wreck every time I leave my house, and I would feel better knowing that everyone else could do the same stuff.

Is the government telling me to buy healthcare a good thing? No. Is the government telling me to pay for milk and eggs for some single mother with kids from 3 different men a good thing? No. But also, yes and yes. I don't care if the government runs it or if Starbucks runs it, I just care that someone is running something that is keeping all of us healthy. At least I would... if there was.

the most religious western nation

This can't be true... can it?? Wait- are we competing with Ireland or are they in a different division?

treats their poor the cruelest.

The American concept is that with hard-work anyone can prosper, even the poor. For better or worse we are a country founded on the principal of "Surival of the FIttest." Unfortunately, at the sacrifice of self-humanity. The American dream is to have made "something" from nothing but your own applied effort.

It's funny how the most religious western nation also treats their poor the cruelest.

Agreed.

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS:
The fact of the matter is that US Healthcare providers do cut corners and they do screw people over. I agree with you that businesses are in business to make money (mostly) and that typically the best way to be a sucessful business is to offer a core product that is superior than your competition. If that we're the case, however, we'd all be flying JetBlue, using Mac's, browsing with Opera and eating at McRamsays. It could be said that these are all successful companies, however they're all considered "niche." Being the best doesn't mean being the most successful and that is the bottom line! EA certain isn't making the best games. Michael Bay certainly isn't making the best films. David Letterman certainly isn't the funniest comedian.

I don't believe that the government needs the added layer of running a healthcare system (I believe that a hybrid of government and private as a public option would probably be most effective) but I think it's the most logical option. Our military is one of the most effective in the world and we certainly fund it with the trillions of dollars that would require! Couldn't we, in a modern world, create an effective healthcare system that keeps EVERYONE healthy instead of most of us healthy and if need be pump it full of cash to make it the best in the world? Priorities in a "post-war era" shouldn't be mainly on military operations. The resource grab is over an we came out pretty good! The Global Political posturing of the last 150 years is mostly settled and we're Top Ten, by all accounts! I think it is time that we focused on the welfare of citizens because when we set our minds to it we tend to do a pretty decent job of thing... the problem is setting ourselves on the task. The battle to focus on healthcare is won, but now the war for the outcome of healthcare reform has really only started.

I agree (with RickJ) that sometimes government agencies can be ineffective but the postal service is an antiquated system. It is largely the same system that it was 100-200 years ago. There is probably room for MASSIVE improvement. The situation you're describing does have a resolution; according to the US Postal Service if you officially notify them that you are receiving mail for a deceased person you can have their mail forwarded to next of kin or an official proxy for the deceased. Additionally you can place their name on the DNC list. You can also have the postal service assign you another P.O. Box with an official complaint in an attempt to have any associated fees with switching be eliminated.

Whether or not the people at the lowest echelon know it or not, there are always ways to get around the red tap and idiocy of the people working at these jobs.

I have a passport, a drivers license, stamps and financial aid. All the government agencies that I need to work for me have worked for me.

Something else to note is that if there was a public option, you wouldn't be dealing with a government agent you would be dealing with a doctor, at a hospital. One you have your drivers license you can drive wherever you want (for four years) without stepping foot in a DMV/BMV.

@Matti
There are three types of conservatives: Conservatives that understand the (original) core value or the movement was that the Federal Government should be a small entity that exists on a basis to keep order and ensure basic human rights... and little else. There is wiggle room here as many conservatives recognize that certain privileges (not rights) are also beneficial to American society: the FDA, Roadways, etc...
These people are known as "sensible conservatives."

People who hate/dislike the government/various government agencies/various government policies/"the other guys." Like the Tea Party, for instance, who in their grand retardation think that it's a good idea to abolish taxes... and then we'll all just continue to exist happily in our modern world! As streets crumble, law enforcement becomes puppets of criminals, the rest of the civilized world abandons us, and ultimately we rape ourselves until a new order is developed which installs taxes! "Right-Wing Conservatives."

People that believe that other people believing in a particular idea must believe in all idea's which they arbitrarily link to that particular idea and also that the people immediately associated with that person must also believe in all of the idea that that person has. Meanwhile, they either have no ideals themselves or are misinformed on the reality of particular schools of thought. These people dissent and oppose these other ideals for mostly no reason, without basis or the ability to offer constructive thought to aid in the process of developing a compromise or a solution. We call these people "Republicans."

It is possible to be more than one, as counter-intuitive as that may seem. John McCain for instance is a "Sensible Republican..." figure that one out. Mitch McConnell is a "Right-Wing Republican." Ron Paul is a "Sensible Conservative." Yay for analogies!

I'm mixed! There are bits from both that I prefer over bits from the other. However, if I would have to choose one I prefer the low-res. I also really like Khris' scaled down version, as a side note.

Out of curiosity, are you redrawing the render you made in Maya or are you 'shopping the render to make it more pixellated? It seems as if you're pixlating the Maya render, in which case I think that you could get your hands a bit dirty and add some of those glows quite nicely to the pixelated version and also define some edges better and touch-up some other aspects of the image; For instance, the red cubes on the left hardly look like cubes, the wall indent near the left side of the window doesn't has as much definition as the render, some of the lighting seems a bit arbitrary and city scape feels a bit too vivid, I might desaturated that a bit.

I think it's badass though! I wish I could make BGs that effective.

Wrong! This is the most popular girl in grammar school...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR28oWPJ8vA&feature=player_embedded

James May is where it's at... fact

I think its a tie between him and Clarkson, may is a bit too dull and Jeremy is a bit too over the top but between the two of them they have GENUINE passion and interest! And in James' case, Knowledge.

Hammond, only the other hand, should be legally required to only host children television.

I will express my opinion via the medium of this peculiar image.

Hmmm, good points FSi, but I think you're forgetting that these corporation haven't had ANY SORT of regulation or accountability AT ALL since the inception of their existence in America.

Its no excuse Darth! Everyone kill him for his incorrect use of perspective!

CHARGE!

*CHARGES*


I have to disagree with InCreator, I think that Grey is a perfectly acceptable color and not boring in the least!

By "Saw" we're meaning a "saw wave"

It is a sound that produced a wave pattern like this /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ and because the wave pattern looks like that it is called a "saw waveform."

I believe the sound you're referring to is the one that they are using for lightening. That's not a specific sound but I would describe it as a ripping sound and a "50s style laser gun" simultaneously being played. I'll see if I can do a bit more research for you.

I really like what you've Domithan! However, I think you should take a close look at Mandarbs sidewalk, I think it's a very effective iteration. Also, I prefer his columns more but I think that's kind-of a style preference... definitely look at his sidewalk, though.

The hypotheticals are moot.

Hardly! They illustrate the point and are all valid.

Would you use "to jew someone" to mean cheat them or underpay them?

Actually yes, although this may work diferently because i'm half Jew...  I say "That's jewish" or "I got jewed" to mean "a bad deal" or "getting screwed like a the jews have for most of eternity."  For instance:

Five dollars for a taco?! Well that's jewish.

or

The ref didn't even call that a foul! We got so jewed.

As a side note, getting "gypped" isn't frowned upon in any of the places I've been... well GETTING GYPPED is frowned upon but SAYING gypped isn't, LOL.

It's similar to slang use of "retarded", which some groups also oppose and which is seen as uncouth at best. (Michael Scott: "You don't call retarded people "retards". That would be in bad taste. You call your friends "retards" when they're acting retarded.") Personally I think this insult is less offensive because, putting aside political correctness, it's not bigoted to believe that being mentally retarded is undesirable. Of course, it could still be hurtful, maybe even more so.

This is a funny situation to me. People close to the mentally challenged/damaged communities insist on using the phrases "mentally challenged" or "reduced mental capacity/function" and similar terms to describe the individuals. Also preferred is describing the exact trauma/deformation. Using the word retarded, isn't something they've embraced (like "fat" or "gay" are embraced [in most cases] by their respective communities) and isn't an archaic word not typically used (gay) in general speech. To call someone else is retarded is to imply that they are incompetent... if I call a bar retarded, however, what am I implying? I find it silly.

Then you might equally well argue that regardless of the background, it's now a term that (when use pejoratively) gay groups regard as offensive to homosexuals and that is widely understood (at least in the adult world) to have homophobic undertones. So even if it was OK to use it as an insult before, now it probably isn't. Hey, that's just the evolution of language!

I'm saying that many people in the gay community act as if the word doesn't mean anything BUT homosexual and cannot/should not mean/apply to anything but homosexuals. The social acceptance of the word is irrelevant as no matter how much gay people want people to stop using the word for anything but homosexual isn't going to happen anytime soon. Similarly, people that don't want individuals to say "bollocks" or "stupid" or "felching" probably aren't going to have any influence the words actually being used. I'm not talking about USAGE, I'm talking about acceptance of a word to be defined BEYOND what a small group of individuals WILLS it to be defined as. I'm saying that just as many people use the word gay as a negative descriptor as use it as a synonym for homosexuals and it should justifiably be recognized as having those multiple definitions, why can the two NOT co-exist? Whether or not it is in good taste is moot, as people will ALWAYS have bad taste.

Though I have to say that I personally use "Bugger!" as an interjection, which I guess has a similar background. The difference? As far as I'm aware, no one actually finds it particularly offensive.

Because it isn't found offensive doesn't mean that your usage of it prevents it from being defined properly! Also, probably because there really aren't many ways to use the word "bugger!" =P

My argument isn't that it should or shouldn't be used, that's an endless debate because we all walk lines and sometimes the lines that we walk hurt others, it's non-resolvable. However, recognizing that the word gay can ALSO be a negative descriptor, coexisting with being sexually liberal, being bright and showy and flashy, being merry, participating in social pleasures AND ALSO being homosexual.