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I like the restructuring alot.  Here is some additional food for thought, for whatever it's worth.   

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...makes you wonder if he's batshit crazy or speaking some sort of sense...

I think it's mostly "batshit crazy" with a wee little bit of "some sort of sense" mixed in just to keep everyone wondering.  In a prior parole hearing he said he didn't have time to be paroled as he was busy with other stuff.

Wasn't that shotgun still warm when they caught him?

I'm not sure what you are referring to.  He persuaded a bunch of "followers" to murder Sharon Tate and several others who were visiting her.  He never at the crime scene.

I think Bug Reports was better of under AGS support as that would be the place to report bugs in the released versions.    Bugs in development versions would more properly be reported in either Engine or Editor  Development.   

Also there needs to be some rules for developers who post modified versions of the engine or editor.  For example the initial post should be edited to contain abstract,  change log, and link to latest version, the way CJ used to do it.  I would also suggest having some kind of file naming convention be used when people post development versions.   The zip filename perhaps could contain the version of AGS from which the development version was made,  the identity of the developer, and his/her build or version number an whether its engine or editor.   Something like the following is what I have in mind to help keep everything straight:

AGS3.2.1-MONKEY0000-ENG.ZIP
AGS3.2.1-SNAKE0000-EDT.ZIP

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17680252#

Is anybody surprised?      One of my best friend's mother was in 4th grade with old Charlie and seh said he was a strange puppy even then.   

As I was reading the above BBC article I thought to myself "He's got a new Al Queda look.".  Lo and behold half way down on the right there was a thumbnail of OBL which was indeed similar.   


Just sayin' ...

Thanks guys, thats exactly what I was looking for.   Did you know that this case was genesis of the Electronic Frontier Foundation?  Here is an account of the incident from the Steve Jackson Games  website.

http://www.sjgames.com/SS/

I seem to remember a rumor, from many many moons ago,  about video game developers who were arrested as computer hackers.  Apparently the authorities came in to possession of communications and/or manuals describing how to hack into computer systems and didn't realize it was all fiction, a video game plot and not an actual plot.  I've been googling and have only come up with wikipedia references to games called "Hacker" and a sequel "HackerII" but noting about arrests etc.

Has anybody else heard of this story and/or know if it's true or just urban legend?

Baron, I didn't realize you were quite so young  

Must see video!    Thought fellow AGS people would enjoy this hilarious bit of technology.  

http://www.youtube.com/googlemaps

Google's timing is impeccable, eh!

[AGS HTML5 Runtime]

AGS HTML5 Runtime
I have been looking at the game engines on the second list I linked to in the first post.    A couple of them appear to be under active development potentially suitable targets for AGS created games.  Crafty has the option of using either CANVAS or DOM as the AVES video suggests is more speedy.

• http://craftyjs.com/
  
• http://gamejs.org/
  
  They both claim to have a path finding algorithm but I am not sure how well (if at all) they are able to handle walk-behinds, walkable areas, regions, etc.  If the room areas/region stuff was supported then it seems to me that the next biggest task would be to create a JS library that implements the AGS built-in functions (many more of us perhaps have the skills for this part).  The last thing to do is to modify the editor so that it is capable of exporting the necessary game files in the necessary format.
  
  AGS Script Language
  This is another issue that needs to be addressed sooner or later.  There is a huge pile of AGS script language feature requests.   It begs the question if an off the shelf scripting language should be considered rather than recruiting and retaining dedicated compiler developers?  If an off the shelf scripting language were adopted then developers would be able to concentrate on other things. Some of the obvious candidates would likely include JS, Python (wraps C/C++ easily), Angel Script, various interpreted C/C++s, etc.   
  
  node.js
  Which brings us to node/V8.  If JS were chosen then the game script code would be directly executable by either browsers or a runtime with embedded node/V8 or other JS interpreter.   
  
  I think these are interesting ideas but don't have enough knowledge to know how good or bad they maybe would like to see what others may have to say.
  
  
  

[AVES Game Engine]

I came across a couple of things of interest today related to JS and and game engines and thought they may be of interest to the AGS community.  It also seems like a good opportunity to start another discussion about an  AGS JS target platform.

AVES Game Engine
AVES, from what I understand was bought out by Zygna shortly after it was publicly demonstrated.   Since it's now proprietary and can't be used directly I think the developer's comments and advice may be very useful.  Here is a pretty impressive demo and talk about what they did and how they did it.

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RRnyChxijA&feature=related
  
• http://www.insidesocialgames.com/2010/09/24/zynga-acquires-dextrose-aves-engine-html5/
  
  Other JS Engines
  I found a list of other JS game engines.  There are quite a few so maybe people can help looking though them to see if any may be of use in creating an AGS/JS library/ engine/whatever.  The second link contains abstracts.  Perhaps we can find someone who is already making the JS part and who would want to join us?
  
• https://gist.github.com/768272
  
• http://ntt.cc/2011/01/31/66-open-source-javascript-game-engine-for-serious-developers.html
  
  Node.js
  Node contains V8, Google's JS engine, and come other libraries and it allows one to execute JS files from a command line, "node myprogram.js", on windows and mac.  Source code is provided so presumably it can be compiled for Linux and other platforms as well.   Node aspires to be a web or other sort of network server but it also demonstrates how V8 could be used for non-browser applications.   Links to website and video below.
  
• http://nodejs.org/
  
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo_B4LTHi3I
  
  Well anyway here is a start at accumulating links to potential resources, reviewing them, and opining about aa AGS/JS target
  
  
  
  
  

Wow, what an interesting discussion and many great ideas.

Snarky's idea about enactment sounds really interesting.  I guess it would all be taking place in th PC's mind so the reenactment world would only be composed of elements he experienced or investigated in the real world. 

I thought about making a Fact Based Dialog system a couple of years ago.  It's has come things in common to ideas mentioned by Darth, Khris, and Vince.   The basic idea is that each character has a collection of knowledge represented by one or more "facts".  The player can't ask about things which he doesn't know about.   For example if the coroner hasn't determined that the murder weapon was a knife the the PC can't ask a suspect if he owns a knife.  So until the coroner tells the PC "it was a knife" then the PC doesn't know to ask about it.   This is very much like what Darth describes.

I also thought of having confidence levels as Khris describes where each fact could have a confidence level of +/- 100%.   This could be used to trigger events or enable actions in the game world. The player wouldn't necessarily see this value but could possibly be made aware of it through comments of other characters such  as "Are you sure about that?" or "... sounds like you can take that to the bank!).

It would also be possible for NPC's to exchange facts via dialog (either on or off screen).  So when the NPC asks an informant about a knife the first time he might not know anything.  Now the informant knows about a knife and so could ask around about it.  When asked about it later in the game he may have new information.   

I imagined that it would be possible to instruct two characters to have a conversation about a specific topic or a random topic.  Options could be selected randomly or by keyword and facts would be exchanged.  Having this capability would allow the game world to operate in a sort of autonomous or chaotic fashion where it wouldn't be predetermined which facts the characters would have or what they would talk about at any given time. 

It would be also be possible to tell NPC's falsehoods or disinformation that they could share with other NPCs  would would share or react to.   For example PC could tell informant "Put the word out on the street that the police know where the knife is hidden...".  When the killer finds this out he goes to retrieve the knife.  If the PC is following the right suspect he will be led to the weapon.   

Welcome to AGS. 

Being a Linux person you may be interested in the following tutorial that explains how to run the AGS editor in virtualbox.   Keep your game files on the Linux disk rather than than the virtual disk and test in window mode.

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=39118.0

In more recent times other peop-le have got satisfactory results using WINE.

I'm randomly getting those "FAST CGI" errors most of the time I'm on the forums.

Try typing slower why don't you?      

RaGG,

A couple of years ago I created a module that would be useful for hosting such tutorials.   I don't remember if the link below is to the latest version;  seems like I lost the latest and greatest to the great bit bucket in the sky.  

Essentially there is a little test GUI that sits at the bottom of the screen.  There are pushbuttons, panel meters, leds, and an event log.   Functions are provided to turn-on and modify values of the pre-defined GUI elements.  The module is designed for experimenting/developing scripts.  Each room is an independent script and can be selected from a drop down list.   Each room can have a help txt file that is displayable in a pop-up window.

I designed the module for my own experiments but always thought it would make a nice vehicle for the kind of tutorials you describe.  Here is a link to the latest version of the module that's online.  Have a look and see what you think.  If there is interest I may be persuaded to clean it up a bit for use as a tutorial vehicle.

Be warned the module was created with an older version of AGS so there are liekly some upgrade issues.

BluBox-T0100-B02

[Phase One-Eleven]

Wyz, 

"The Plan" is a great start on documenting what needs to be done.  You present sound and sensible ideas in the plan.  I have some comments that may be helpful in refining the plan.

Phase One-Eleven
The document would have been easier to read and digest if there were descriptive titles.  These sections also seemed to need more structure (i.e. categories,k sub-categories, etc).  It seems to me you were thinking in terms of chronology and so a linear structure was chosen.  I can see where a hierarchical structure would tend to de-emphasize the chronology.   Perhaps chronology could be preserved by assigning categories/sub-categories to phases which could be defined something like the following:  Representation of dependencies could be achieved using do notation (i.e. Phase-1.1 comes before  Phase-1.2).

• Phase-1    0-2 months
  
• Phase-2   2-6 months
  
• Phase-3  6-12 montsh
  
• Phase-4  12+ months
  
  
  Phase Three - Engine Coding Team
  I think we agree in principle but perhaps disagree on some of the terminology and/or group dynamic.  As you correctly point out there are developers who can commit nearly full time to the project and those who can commit to specific tasks. For now, they can be referred to as core and casual developers.  Individual developers self-select by the amount of time the can contribute.   I also agree that casual developers are an important resource.  However,  to effectively utilize them requires that suitable tasks are identified and defined.     
  
  The are also two kinds of development efforts; 1) Deciding what to do and  2) Doing it.  "The Plan" alludes to this fact but then goes on to confuse it with the two kinds of developers.   In my view the following more accurately reflects the situation.
   
  

  o Architecture (deciding what to do)
     - Lead Developer(s)/Technical Leader/etc
     - Core Developers
     - Casual Developer
  o Implementation (doing it)
     - Core Developers
     - Casual Developers
  

  
  
  Everyone can participate in either activity (think forum discussion here).   One could imagine that most of the time a consensus could be reached and natural leaders would emerge from the group.  However, there will be times when consensus is not forthcoming and the "hand of authority" will be required to nudge the group along.  So there will need to be some kind of governance  (i.e. Technical Leader(s), Project manager, etc) in place. 
  
  Phase Five - Coding Conventions
  

  
  There needs to be a consensus but for the love of AGS don’t be a dick about it
  

  Couldn't agree more.  Coding conventions are like assholes. Everybody has one; some people have more than one.   
  
  The ScummVM team have a nice and well documented standard.  It has been suggested in one of the other threads that this would make a good starting place and I agree.   I would take a good look at CJ's style to see if there is anything that ought to be (or not be) included or modified in the ScummVM standard.
  
  I would suggest using ScummVM's horizontal and vertical spacing rules.  I've done my share of refactoring and porting other people's code and I can tell you from experience that repetitive tasks such as adjusting indent spacing (or changing tabs to/from spaces) are not a waste of time as one would think.  Believe it or not this exercise is invaluable and helps the person become familiar with the code.   
  
  Phase Six - Refactoring
  The ScummVM team are way in front of us on this.  It's my  understanding that their architecture consists of front and back ends.  They have a backend for each platform the support.  They  have a front end for each engine they support.    If this is the case it may make a lot of technical sense if AGS and ScummVM were able to use the same front end.  To be sure there are some licensing issues to be addressed but I think the benefits are too great to pass up the opportunity.
  
  Somebody from here, who has the time, should really really be working with fuzzie and giving her as much help as possible.   The more the AGS community contributes to her efforts  the easier it is to make the case for a common, dual licensed, front end. 
  
  Monkey, please forgive me for volunteering you for this task , but you are one of the best Deep Divers of code I have ever had the pleasure of working with.   I think you could be an immense help to Fuzzie and that you would gain a great insight into the  workings of both the current AGS engine and of the ScummVM innards.   I hope you would consider taking on this challenge (if you haven't already).   Anyone who is currently working on the engine should be communicating and helping Fuzzie whenever possible.
  
  
  Here are some thoughts on a hierarchical organization of "The Plan" or the AGS project itself.  It is just a illustration of some of my earlier comments and by no means a finished or even partially finished product.  Just something to stimulate more discussion.
  
  

  Code: ags

  
  Project Organization
    Infrastructure
      Forum
      Website
      Code Repository
    Legal
      License + Clarifications w/regard to games made with AGS
      Contributor registration and agreements
      Copyright assignment
    Administrative
      Groups & Specialties
      Objectives
      Governance
    Standards
      Coding Style
      File naming conventions
      Procedure(s) for development cycle
      Repository policy (i.e merge/commit)
  
  Engine
    Refactor Code
      Deep dive code
        Document what's there
        Document refactor ideas
      Plan
        Architecture/Structure/Overall Vision
        Identify milestones, chronology
        Identify individual tasks
      Execute plan
    Release
      Test
      Merge with Editor Release
    Future
  
  Editor
    Enhance File/Project handling
      Multiple targets
      Multiple game versions 
      Integrate management of game resources/assets
      Retain resource import source, parameters for mass re-import
      BuildAll => Build Target, Build All Targets
    Deepdivers
      Resear4ch porting issues & options
    Release
      Test
      Merge with Editor Release
  
  Compiler (AGS Native)
    Feature freeze until after refactoring
    Deep Divers
      Investigate alternatives (AngleScript etc)
      Learn how to make changes to compiler
      Identify desired and required language features
    Documentation
      Auto-generation (AGS Help File)
      Alternative formats (HTML)
    Future
  

@Khris: That  was exactly my first thought.  I then looked around a bit, found a bunch of online pdf->html converters.  They pretty much do the same thing, which tells me this is a common and ok technique.  I'm now back where I started but with more confidence.

@Snarky: You are absolutely right .  This is exactly what I had in mind.  The subcontractors would never see the actual fax that gets sent out.  The information would be entered on a separate web form, saved into a database, and then used to generate the appropriate documents to be faxed.   A copy of the generated documents would also be retained as a record of the application.   

The company books appointments with the subcontractors for the state government.  The state pays the company for the services the sub-contractors provide and the company pays the sub-contractors.   The company must send in an application, consisting of several documents, to the state for each sub-contractor.  These documents contain information about the sub-contractor's credentials and the company's tax-id number and other non-public details about the company.

@Khris:  Yeah, it seems that all of the online converters do this, so I guess it would be OK.

@Eric:  Like I said it seems too easy and that something would not work correctly.  I was of the mind that alignments may get screwed up but not rendering the background and other images sounds like it may be a problem.

Apparently Acrobat 9 will export directly to HTML but I would rather not pay.  I found a free alternative called PdfEdit (link below).  It runs under Linux and the beta version also runs under windows so I'll give it a try and see what kind of HTML it can produce..  
 
http://pdfedit.cz/en/index.html

[edit]
Not sure if PdfEdit does the export to HTML.  Found this pdfkit that does a fair job.  Output looks pretty good but the underlying auto generated html looks like crap.  It uses an image to draw the lines etc so why not just use an image of the whole thing just like I thought from the beginning? 

Here's the link in case anyone is interested.
http://www.pdfkit.com/

I want to make a webpage where sub-contractors can signup by filling out a web form and submitting it.  The information they provide needs to be inserted into a number of government pdf forms and faxed to a government agency.   Some of the information that goes on the government forms is privileged and so would not be appropriate for the sub-contractors to view.    

I have found a fax service that offers an api that allows a number of file formats to be faxed through their service.   Their API provides the capability of combining a number of documents in to one fax.  It can also directly fax HTML pages.

The part I need help with is inserting the information into the PDF documents.  The obvious and first  thing to come to my mind is to display the pdf as a background image in an HTML page and then format the HTML to display the data at the proper positions.  It sounds too easy to be true.

I was just wondering if any of you super duper web guys have any experience or ideas about this?

Thanks
Rick

P.S. For anyone interested in the fax service I mentioned here is a link below.   Are there better fax services out there?
http://www.interfax.net/en

Well that would be another way to accomplish the same goal but it hasn't yet happened.  Perhaps all we need until then is a little tighter moderation in Tech.

Has anyone else noticed a trend; people posting stuff in the Tech forum that ought to be in the Beginner Forum?  I was just thinking perhaps renaming them would help:  Change Tech Forum to Dev Forum, Change Beginner Forum to Tech Forum.

The Tech forum has always been there to communicate with the developer(s).  Now that there are more than one developer it's even more important to keep it tidy.  Just wondered what everyone else thinks.