Messages

Don't get me wrong, I understand that there are huge evils on the other side too... neither side is perfect in this... it just seems that what Israel is doing right now is a little uh... extreme and I'm not sure why they're doing it.

But the terror bombing of Germany in response to their V2 rocket attacks of London and other cities wasn't extreme, right?

I don't understand what Israel are doing right now, with phosphorus bombs and what, 1000 civilian deaths or something? What's the point in this exactly?

According to the article you linked to they are not using the kinds of weapons that are banned.  The article says that they are using a phosphorous rounds as target markers and not as incendiary bombs, which is apparently what is banned by the UN.  Hamas purposefully launch attacks from private homes and heavily populated areas so as to maximize civillian casulties when Israel is finally proved to respond. 

The argument has become directed towards our perceived moral right to eat animals, which is a whole different kettle of offal than debating whether an animal bred for consumption has the right to a pain-free existence before fulfilling it's destiny as somebody's dinner. I feel that it does.

I agree.  Except for organisms that practice Photosynthesis or Chemosynthesis, all living things consume other living things to survive.   This thread is not about the consumption or non-consumption of animals, it is about reducing the amount of suffering in the world.   Being kind to all creatures great and small is a measure of our civility and enlightenment.  As meowster says it's disappointing to learn that humanity is not as civil and enlightened as we would like to believe.

The editor works just fine in Linux running in VirtualBox for now.  Resources would be better used  improving the runtime engine so that it can be more easily ported to other platforms, IMHO.  Although I don't have any good answers, I do believe that this is the right question to be asking. 

On a side note this whole discussion may become irrelevant in the future when meat is grown in vitro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_meat
http://www.google.com/search?q=in-vitro+meats

[Barrier to Entry]

What are we trying to accomplish here?   If it is to increase the popularity of the RONiverse and encourage  the production of more RoN games then I think we should first be asking what's wrong with it as it now exists and then think about what changes are needed to right those wrongs.

Barrier to Entry
From the previous discussion it would seem that the main problem is that there is a substantial barrier to entry due to the requirement of adhering to cannon and a lack of documentation of what the cannon actually is.  The idea that one must play every game to know the cannon doesn't scale at all and has not been practical, I suspect, in a very long time.   

I think Stupot has a great idea and his example of the Simpson's is spot on.   The way to achieve this is to write detailed biographies of each character.  Such a biography would describe the character's personality, education,  major or life changing events that have happened to the character.  This doesn't need to include every single event that has ever happened in every single game.  Just like in the Simpsons you don't need to remember every single thing that Homer did in every single episode to know his personality or how he would react in this or that situation.   

If there was a wiki for this purpose then such biographies could develop over time via multiple contributors.  A sprite starting out as a minor character could evolve over time and eventually become a major character.  The only rule is that you would have to respect what has come before.   If the initial creator writes in the biography that the character served in the military then subsequent contributors are obligated to not change that history.   Contributors would also be obligated to use characters consistent with their biographies.  Homer Simpson doesn't behave in an un-Homerish manner unless there is a good explanation for it.  For example, we wouldn't expect Homer to do anything remotely  intelligent, but if he were possessed by Albert Einstein's ghost then we wouldn't be surprised if he were suddenly brilliant.

The same could be done for specific locations.   For example Scid's could also have the equivalent of a biography which would describe the kind of place it is, the kind of people who frequent the place,  and perhaps some of the more notable events in it's history. 

I think this is a much easier way to go than trying to keep track of a lengthy and ever growing cannon.  If there is a good cast of developed characters where people come to know and love them then it is much easier to write stories about them, IMHO.

Lack of Visibility
The other problem mentioned in this discussion is the lack of visibility on the AGS forums and website.  New folks are always asking about the availability of resources, especially character sprites,  so they are either not aware of RoN or are dissuaded from using it's resources.

Perhaps an introduction page as part of the AGS website that includes links to the resources, the RoN forum, and that states the terms of use for the resources in clear and concise language.  I'm think something like the creative-commons-attribution-non-comercial-share-alike would be in order.   

Quality of Graphics
From what I could gleam from the discussion to this point is that shiny new graphics may attract new developers to RoN but it may also discourage developers with lower artistic skills.   

Aren't the RoN resources are done in 8-bit color?  If so perhaps conversion to 16-bit color would provide an easy way of polishing the existing graphics and make them easier to work with (for some).

Also, for a long time now I have been thinking that the results of the effort expended in the "Competitions and Activities" forum are being wasted.   It seems to me that with the addition of a few simple rules the output produced by many of the activities there could be harnessed.  The following rules would be helpful for example:

1. All entries are published under above mentioned creative-commons license and permanently archived on-line (americangirlscouts.com and  archive.org.  come to mind). 

2. Character sprites drawn to a standard scale(s) and color depth(s).  Perhaps one standard for low res and another for high-res.

3. Backgrounds drawn to one of a number of standard styles, resolutions, etc. 

4. Other sprites drawn to one of a number of standard sizes so that they could be used for inventory items, objects/props such as chairs, tables, etc (in which case they would use above standard character scaling), or GUI buttons.

Well I think you get the idea.  Why not harness the effort already being expended to generate artistic resources that can be used by the community.  After all the programmers among us have created (and continue to create) a wealth of modules for everyone's benefit without complaint. 

====================

Assuming that a decision is made to do something  new with RoN then we come to the problem of how to combine the existing stuff with the new stuff.   I think DC has the right idea here but I think "season" is not quite the right terminology.  What if we did something like they do with the Star Trek series where they all have the same main title and a different sub-title for each series.  So we could have different sub-titles for different categories of games something like: 

- "RON: Reality on the Norm"  - Existing and future canonical games.  Games must adhere to cannon just like now. People can go on making games for this category.

- "RON: The New Reality" - Uses polished background graphics, character and location resources are used consistent with their descriptions or biographies, ala "The Simpsons".  Adherence to cannon is not required. 

- "RON: Under Shorts" - Same as "The New Reality" except very short game (i.e. playable in an hour or some such time frame).  Perhaps this would be the equivalent of a comic strip, an elaborate joke. or a making philosophical point.  This would provide an outlet for those spontaneous inspirations some of us  have and something useful to do for the rest of us.     Maybe this is a good way of getting people started with RON.

- "RON: Abnormal Circumstances" - ?

- "RON: In the Year 2525" - Same as "The New Reality" except set way in the future ...

- "RON: Unbound" -  Experimental games to include first trys,  prof of concept, and other experiments.  No rules with regard to story line etc.  Just allow use of resources to conduct experiments or just learn AGS.  For example, someone could make game to learn how to open a door with a key from inventory and then release it as a tutorial.

I think you get the idea.  The actual sub-titles would of course be determined by further discussion and consensus or some other means.  Each game would then be like an episode in one of the title-subtitle  categories.

And at that point, does it really matter how they were treated beforehand?

Well yes it does, actually ...

1.  The manner in which one treats (or allows others to treat) those who are less powerful says a lot about one's character.

2.  Just because an animal is destined to be killed for food does not justify the infliction of additional pain and suffering for it's entire life.   Civilized and thoughtful human beings ought to be grateful and respectful of the creatures who give them sustenance.

I think the abundance of anthropomorphic shows by Disney and others have, over time, given some people a skewed perspective of the animal kingdom, making us feel guilty when we see <insert favorite tasty animal>  slaughtered, and I refuse to feel guilty or selfish or any other nonsense because I like animal flesh.  It tastes wonderful!

I would agree that there is a Bambi Syndrome out there where people attribute characteristics to animals which they do not have.   This however does not justify the intentional infliction of pain and suffering on any living thing.

Kudos to Meowster for  this post

Fritzi, welcome to AGS.  With an attitude like this

... I Will Comply.

you are sure to go far   

Quote from: RickJ on Yesterday at 01:11:41pm

I don't think "hypocrisy" is a very accurate way of describing a person's reluctance or refusal to answer deeply personal questions the answers to which no one is entitled to know.

Well, isn't the reason of this reluctance that the person is afraid to be viewed as "not normal"?

Absolutely not!  What you refer to as "being normal" is in reality just "being average".  I don't know why anyone would set their aspirations so low?

Personal information can be used to hurt, steal from, or destroy someone's life.   This may come as a shock to you but there are evil people in the world who would do things just for the enjoyment of watching you suffer.

Quote from: RickJ on Yesterday at 01:11:41pm

I also think it's very naive to believe that one should furnish accurate details of one's personal life upon request.  A wise person would refuse such requests and if that wasn't possible or practical then he would give inaccurate information and with-hold incriminating information.

For those of you who disagree with me please send me a PM with your full name, your social security number, and the account numbers and passwords of any bank or brokerage accounts you may have.  Thanks!   

I am talking about the information, a person doesn't want others to learn, because the person is ashamed of it, not because it would let them steal the person's money. The point of this experiment is to be rid of any shame, by understanding that there's nothing to be ashamed of and confirming one's faith in that by exposing the cause of the shame. Now, unless your bank password is: "1 luv p3n1s", it's not relevant.

Well the obvious way to avoid shame is to not commit shameful acts in the first place and do only those things in which one can be proud of.    The idea that you can rid yourself of shame by bragging about shameful things you have done is just simply retarded.   

The people who have achieved this goal are commonly referred to as sociopaths.  There was a recent thread on the subject in this forum.

Perhaps you won't see my point until someone decides to use the information you provided to take you down a few notches.  Good luck.

Now, one of the biggest things, I don't like about the common society is hypocrisy, which the social desirability bias pretty much is..

I don't think "hypocrisy" is a very accurate way of describing a person's reluctance or refusal to answer deeply personal questions the answers to which no one is entitled to know.  I also think it's very naive to believe that one should furnish accurate details of one's personal life upon request.  A wise person would refuse such requests and if that wasn't possible or practical then he would give inaccurate information and with-hold incriminating information. 

For those of you who disagree with me please send me a PM with your full name, your social security number, and the account numbers and passwords of any bank or brokerage accounts you may have.  Thanks!   

Ok, so if you have a listbox named MyList and put 2 items in it, "one" and "two" you could just so something like the following

Code: ags

     if (MyList.Items[MyList.SelectedIndex]=="two") {
          TwoFunction();
     }
     else if (MyList.Items[MyList.SelectedIndex]=="one") {
          OneFunction();
     }

Jim, I thought and you and Nicky may be interested in checking out dockbook  as a means of producing your AGS guides.  Docbook is a standard set of XML tags used to markup a document's source file.  The source is run through an XSLT processor along with style sheets to produce a formatted output document.   This would allow you guys to collaborate  on the content and then publish that content to different formats such as HTML, PSF, CHM, and others, by simply running the the XSLT processor with the same source and different style sheets. 

There is a simple command line system that installs on and runs in windows called eDe (e-novative DocBook environment, enovative is the name of the company) and is the one I currently use.  You can download it from here and it's free and open source.
http://www.e-novative.info/software/ede.php

I use notepad++ to edit the source files.  There is an XML (or Docbook) plugin  that allows you to check for errors in the source.  It is also free and open source and can be downloaded from here.
http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/site.htm

The main problem I've had is that the error checking isn't very good at identifying the line where the error is located.  It's a situation similar to the omission of a closing quote " mark in AGS.  The easiest thing to do is to check for errors often.

The eDe package comes with default style sheets that make it easy to make CHM, PDF, and two different versions of HTML.  I am not particularly fond of how it's setup for customized style sheets and document formats but it gets one of to a fast start.  I have thought to make my own system  based on this but with a different document creation/customization scheme.  Anyway don't be put off by the defaults; they can be changed.

Anyway, take a look and if you are interested I would be glad to help you get started.

From what you describe it appears that you are displaying item's index number (i.e. it's location in the list) something like this:

Code: ags

     Display("You clicked on item number %d",MyList.SelectedIndex);

Perhaps what you want to do instead is to display the item's text like this

Code: ags

     Display("You clicked on item %s",MyList.Items[MyList.SelectedIndex]);

Here is another variation on SpacePirateCaine's joke:

Two guys die and are at the gates of heaven.  St. Peter asks each of them how they died.

The first one says "I froze to death!".  St Peter just says "My! How unfortunate!" and puts a mark in a big book.

The second guy says "I had a heart attack".  St Peter asks "How did you come to have a heart attack at such a young age?" 

The second guy explains "I suspected my wife of adultery and left work early to confirm my suspicion. When I arrived home, I heard some commotion upstairs and was sure another man was with my wife.  I rushed up the stairs to confront my wife and her lover but my wife was alone.  I was convinced that there was another man in the house and began frantically searching.  I rushed from one room to another, up the stairs and down but still couldn't find the other man.   I leaned on our freezer in the basement to catch my breath and  realized that I hadn't looked in the attic.  So I sprinted up three flights of stairs to the attic and the last thing I remember was opening the attic door and collapsing. The next thing I knew I was here."  He continues "St Peter, If I hadn't been so jealous I would still be alive."

The first guy interrupts and says "If you had looked in the freezer we'd both still be alive."

@Babar:  The monitor in question is a CRT is it not?  If so the clicking sound you hear may be the high voltage electrode arcing across the outside of the picture tube.  This can usually be corrected by just cleaning the outside of the tube around the high voltage electrode with glass cleaner soap and water.  Use something that does not leave a residue.     

@monkey:  This could also be your problem but you made no mention of the tell tale arcing  sound.  It could also be that the high voltage electronics are failing, in which case you will need to replace the monitor.

["DUH! DA CAT!"]

Here is an oldie but goodie...

Three guys are riding in the countryside when their car breaks down.  They walk for what seems like an eternity until they come upon a little farmhouse. They explain their situation to the framer and ask to use the phone.   They call a garage/mechanic who informs them that he won't be able to repair their car until the next day.  The farmer offers to put them up for the night on the condition that they stay away from his daughter.

The three are given blankets and told to make themselves comfortable in the living room.   Now one of these guys is really smart and one of them is really dumb (of course).    So they are sitting there in the dark talking "Man that framer's daughter is just so beautiful and did you see how she was looking at us. ... I just know she wants me to sneak in her room tonight ..".  So the smart one finally says that he is going to try to sneak upstairs into the girl's bedroom.

He begins slowly and quietly climbing the stairs.  Everything is going great  until he gets about 3/4 the way up and steps on a squeaky stair thread.  The farmer comes running out of his room in the darkness with a loaded shotgun and says in a gruff voice "Who is there?".  The smart guy thinks quickly and says "meeow".  The farmer puts his gun down and says to himself "Damn cat!".  The guy waits a while and then continues on to the daughters room who is waiting for him.  (Presumably they have some tea and discuss the finer points of game programming.)

Afterwards he sneak back down and tells the other two what happened.  He tells the second guy that the daughter is expecting his visit also and that he just has to remember that when he hits the squeaky step that he is the cat.   So off the second one goes and the same thing happens.  The step squeaks, the farmer comes out with loaded shot gun and says "Who is there?" to which the second guy replies "meeow".   The farmer returns to his room muttering to himself  "Stupid cat again!".

The second guy returns to tell of his experience.  They both turn to the dumb guy and ask him if he would like to try.  He says "Duh! I don't know!".  "Don't you want to get the girl?" they ask to which he says "Duh! Yeah! Git da girl! Duh Ok!".  They explain about the step several times to be sure he remembers what to do and then they send him on his way.

He climbs the stairs until he hits the squeaky step and the farmer comes out "Who is there?".   Nothing, so the farmer repeats "Who is there dam it?"  Finally the answer comes  ...

Spoiler

"DUH! DA CAT!"

[close]

What do you mean by put on top of room script..

As Gilbet said, this means to declare the variable outside the bounds of any function.  Most people put these kinds of variable declarations at the beginning of the script file before any functions are defined.  Variables defined in this way are called static variables and they retain their values throughout the game. They can be used in any function in the script file in which they are defined.   

Variables can also be declared within the bounds of a function and are called dynamic variables.   Variables defined in this way are called dynamic variables and do not retain their values only until the function, in which they are defined, completes it's execution.   They can only be used within the function in which they are defined. 

Well since your nick is Technocrat why don't you call your kitty Technocat.  You could even shorten it to Techno (Techna for a girl kitty) or Techie.

Being new in ags and all i realised that it all comes to knowledge of scripting.
So,how easy/hard you found learning it and how much did you learn?
I am,for example,on a total zero therefore intimidated to work on a game while really wanting to since i freeze the moment i see scripting language.

Many people in your situation make the mistake of trying to create the ultimate game their first time out.  They inevitably become overwhelmed and often attribute their failure to the complexities of scripting.  A better approach is to learn something about scripting first.

Create a the default game with the main character, Roger, and one room with a generic background, either one you have created yourself or one you have borrowed from the demo game or from somewhere else.   Put some walkable areas, walkbehinds, hotspots, and etc in the room.  Now you are read to write some test programs.

The first program you should write is the classic "Hello World!" program.   The script line you need is as follows:
     Display("Hello World");

This line goes somewhere in  the room script but where?  Well you will need to use the lighting bolt icon to create an event handler function.  In AGS these are referred to as  "interactions".   Interactions are tied to things the player can do such as "Clicking on a hotspot" for example.  So if you were to put the Display("Hello World!"); function in the function bound to the player interaction "Any Click on Hotspot1" then whenever the player clicked on this hotspot that sunction would run.  When it runs the Display statement is executed and the message "Hello World!" is displayed on the screen.

Now that you know how to do this try displaying other messages for other interactions. Explore as many interactions as possible.   Try displaying the value of a variable in you message.   In AGS entities such as characters, room objects, rooms, inventory items, GUIs, etc are, in C++ language terminology, objects.  Objects have variables called properties, many of which can be set using the editor's properties pane.   So you could try some thing like  Display("The player character's name is %s", cRoger.Name).  The %s means that the value of the first variable in the specified list (you can display more than one variable) is to be converted to a string and substituted for the %s.   cRoger is the name of a character object and Name is on of the objects properties.   When they are put together as cRoger.Name they work the same as a variable.   

You can read the manual and discover lots and lots of properties for different kinds of things.   Try them all out and ask specific questions in the forum.  The above explanation of objects is a bit oversimplified but for now you don't need to worry about the additional subtleties and complexities of objects.   You will gain a more spohisticated view of objects and programming as you progress and learn more stuff.

Well, this ought to get you started.   One last bit of advice is to develop a disciplined programming style/conventions.  Be sure to properly indent code blocks and to use a consistent variable/function naming convention.   You will find that there is no one best convention and that it comes down to a matter of personal preference.  People sometimes defend that one they use with religious fanaticism.  The best one is the one that works for you.  Almost any programming convention is better than not having one at all.   You can find an example of the programming convention for DemoQuest and other useful documents in the Games in Production  thread.   

Here is a link to the programming conventions document.
http://demo.agspace.ws/project/documents/ProgrammingConventions-V0101.txt

Again this is not "The Best" convention but it is well documented and self-consistent.  It is a good example and starting point from which to develop a convention that works for you.  We wish all you new scripters the best of luck.  Just dive in and try little things first and ask questions when you are stuck.

I guess the hardest part is getting the hang of the basics, learning to understand the programming logic.
When you've got the basics already, it does not matter if you script in C, AGS, php, whatever, you can learn it all then without any big difficulties.

Hehe,  I once gave a guest lecture at ITT Tech in Spokane.  During the Q&A one of the students asked which programming languages I knew to which I replied, in a tongue-n-cheek manner  "All of them!".  After a brief pause to let them enjoy the moment I gave an explanation similar to the above.   My wife was sitting in the back making a critique of the presentation and she still gets a kick out of that exchange.

I don't think you'll have a problem with electrical cords.  Get  a package of those little catnip mouse toys for him/her to play with.   It's also to invent other sorts of toys for your new cat.   They love newspapers, paper grocery bags, cardboard boxes, etc.  Just cut a few holes in the bag/box or toss a mouse toy under a newspaper and let nature take it's course.   Cats love a challenge.  For my little girl I bought a bag of plastic lizards at the Dollar Store.  I would hide them all around the house so that she could find and hunt them. 

Cats are very easy to train but you must have patience.  They do not respond the same ways dog do and negative incentives or punishments will get you nowhere.  We currently have four and if I let them know what I want they will usually comply because they want to please me.    Unlike a dog, a cat will not enslave himself to you but he will be a loyal companion to you if you treat him as an equal.

It's very easy to train a cat to come when you whistle.  Whenever you feed them, give them a treat, or do something fun, just start whistling like a fool.  After awhile they will come running whenever you whistle.

As for names how about one of the following:

- Byte
- George or Lenny (al la "Of Mice and Men")
- Tesorro
- The diminutive form of any Spanish word (actual or made-up word)

Just remember to treat the newest member of your family with kindness and patience and you will be handsomely rewarded.

I understand. But the pointy and clicky stuff was just when you add an event to the room. You can always edit the script directly for changes afterwards. If we want the editor to be able to recognise all the function names and add them automatically to events after closing the script we may need to have the names of all these functions fixed (which IMO is not a bad thing but that would change the current feature of the possibility of using different names).

That may work out ok for room events but I think it would not be as nice for GUI events, and especially for GUI support modules.   

If function pointers were possible then it would be stright forward to have a property that contained a pointer to the actual handler function.   Such properties could then be set either by pointy/clicky method or an assignment statement in the script.   So the above example would end up looking something like the following. 

Code: ags

function blah(){
  //blabla
}

room.LoadRoom = *blah();
room.LoadFirst = *blah();

Reserved function names could also be used as defaults as you suggest.  For novice scriptwriters everything would be nearly the same as it is now.  Being able to change this via script not only offers a convenience to some but also provides an opportunity to do things currently not possible.