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These are kind of tied together; since the first point gain its definition tied into 50's style sci-fi.

Not at all.

Aliens and zombies can be found in many time periods. Medieval times, present day, the far future. Neither of these games had to have a retro style. The fact that they both do is a very telling point.

To control your opponent has been a gaming feature for quite some time (Abe's Odyssey one of the more obvient ones).

The relevent point, however, is that both games have this feature just as both games are set in a retro style.

This point loses all relevance excluded from the others. Even if the foes are regarded foes merely because they are human, the horde of games adressing this feature, whether it be merely to change the veiwpoint or for a laugh, are to immense to ignore.

Taking each point individually and trying to explain them away is missing the forest for the trees. Where each game intersects with the other and how many intersections there are between both is what is convincing that one game ripped off the other.

So basically, I can see how STZ takes on the 50's theme somewhat unmotivated, a conceptual design most likely based on trendscanning, but as a whole, I still disagree that STZ rips off DAH.

...

Forgive me, but it sounds as if you're doing the debating equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears ang going, "La la la la la...!". You're essentially saying that you see the points and even agree with them on their own, but you still don't think the overall point is valid? *boggle*

Like I said, missing the forest for the trees.

I'm confused. Using the same engine often makes games feel similar. Just look at id engine games.
The plot and main character could hardly be more different. And you've already said that the quality of gameplay is low on Stubbs.

See, this is where I have to disagree. It felt exactly the same to me:

- Both main characters are classic movie monsters
- Both games have a retro feel, one because it's set in the 50's, one because it's set in a 50's-style vision of the future
- Both games allow the conversion of ordinary humans into your evil minions that do your bidding
- Both games feature humans as your enemy

The differences are almost entirely cosmetic; the underlying premise is the same in both games. This is why I say Stubbs is a rip-off of Destroy All Humans; that they both use the same engine is gravy but not even evidence I was considering.

You sound like you're arguing for the sake of arguing now...

And though it's difficult to tutor people online about using MAX, I love to do it. Possibly because there are hardly any MAXers where I live so I get to talk shop so rarely.

Regardless, happy to help any time.

Even something outlandish and otherworldly usually has an Earthly equivalent, or even just a distant cousin. Beleive me, it helps.

Class Clown
You are 42% Rational, 71% Extroverted, 57% Brutal, and 57% Arrogant.

Sure...why not? That's not particularly far from the truth.

@Rocketgirl, taffytom, Vict0r: A piece of advice: don't vote for yourself, it's silly, only politicians do that.

But voting for other people is what people who don't want to win do. Are you suggesting we abstain? Cuz I can certainly do that.

It's the same engine.

Engine, schmengine; I'm talking about gameplay and concept being disturbingly similar.

I'm not defending it in any way since I haven't even played a demo.

Well, I have played it, and the two are so similar that at first I thought they were made by the same company until I checked.

Just saying the situation isn't as clear as you make out.

Well, it still seems pretty clear to me. I've worked on games that had budgets and games that were made on shoestrings, both made by the same team, and the budget had very little to do with quality in the end. Time is certainly a factor, but the strengths and weaknesses of those games were the same, just of different degree.

I think anyone who has watched a movie made by Hollywood in the last ten years will agree that you can't disguise crap with money; it's the same with video games.

Personally, I believe in 3D backgrounds. I posted this for the BG blitz this month:


They're not used a lot by AGSers, I've noticed, but I like 'em a lot. I say go with it.
But, at the same time, I think you need some help with technique. You backgrounds are bit...low-poly, and not as well-textured as they could be.
But while I'm familiar with Bryce as being something that I know exists, I've never used it myself; I'm a 3D Studio MAXer. So while I could give advice, it might not help much as we'd have to do a lot of translating jargon as no two 3D packages can quite agree on terminology.

Still, I will say this--and it applies to all artwork, not just 3D: photo-reference is your friend. Try to make a real-world object, or even just a design that is extrapolated from similar real-world objects, and do it all from memory, in your head, and you will most likely fail. Miserably. Little details escape us, or go fuzzy in our memories, or have the wrong dimensions, or just look...off in some indefinable way.
With photo-reference, something to look at and work from, even if you're modifying it greatly to fit your needs, can really take whatever you make to the next level. Even better is a true physical object you can hold in your hands or walk around, shine a light on to see how it reacts.
This is invaluable to the 3D modeler's work, believe me. It seems so simple, maybe even unnecesary, but trust me...do it anyway.

I will also say that perspective is a real issue with 3D backgrounds. The door in the lower left of the screenie I posted? It's actually at about waist-height for the character in the 3D scene. Of course, I could scale the character instead--AGS has some great scaling tools/methods--but it's something to be aware of.

Wideload was founded by Bungie guys who didn't want to do another Halo... you really think they just said "hey, let's copy this game"?

The two are disturbingly similar. Do you really think they didn't?

And considering that Halo 1 & 2 are just better-made games than Stubbs, clearly Bungie lost mostly dead wood when these guys left...

How can it rip off DAH when that title is a mere child itself. A title is in production for years, you can't rip off what you do not know exist. Would you consider DAH be a ripoff of STZ if that were released first?

Titles are annouced before they are released. It happens with movies, too. Every time Disney announces a new title, every fly-by-night animation studio out there tries to cash in by releasing their own version of, say, Aladdin, direct-to-video before Disney's hits the theater. And it happens with video games as well. I've worked at three game companies over the years and I know what development meetings are like; titles and features that other companies have announced are often part of the insipiration discussions.

1 - A ags game that you dont like
2 - how much time do you spent with the computer (hours per day)
3 - whos the hottest agser girl

1 - Mind's Eye. I hate to say it, because it looked cool, but the tiny-ass font made it hard to read, and I hate games that don't let you start exploring the world you're in right away, instead having to fight your way through single-room puzzles for a while first.

2 - Probably 8 to 10 hours. But then, only 2 to 4 of those are spent online. The rest is all working on animation and artwork.

3 - I d'know. I just know it ain't me; the worst I can say about myself is that I'm plain or average...but I can't say much better.

Mine:

1 - If you're adopted, is marrying--or having sex with--an (adoptive) sibling still considered incest?

2 - Do you think the people who performed on Saturday Night Live had trouble getting dates since their Saturdays were always booked?

3 - I realize there are gummi worms and other gummi things, but bears were first...I mean, why? They could have chosen any animal, why bears?

Regardless of when voting starts, well...obviously I vote for me.  8)

3. Why am I counting backwards?
2. What is the largest palindrome you can think of?
1. How many angels can dance on a pin?

3. Like Yoda you are speaking.
2. UFO tofu
1. 4 if they're skinny, 2 if they're fat.

Mine:
1. If you had a pet duck, what would you name it?
2. If you have sex with your clone, are you gay or masturbating?
3. If Superman has appendicitis, do they have to operate with a kryptonite scalpel?

Well, it needn't be a cliffhanger, necessarily. Just...loose ends that become important later. It's much harder to write that way, of course, but if something that seemed significant and over turns out to be a small piece of a much larger picture...

Also, while the game is kind of repetative, it is not stupid. You haven't even played it.

Well, I have played it, and I found it to be quite stupid. I mean, not only is it a rip-off of Destroy All Humans, but it's not even a good rip-off.

I mean, yeah, it's kinna fun to be a zombie, but the first few levels are quite frankly interminable, especially that damn canyon level with the hovercraft.

They could have done better.

Well, one thing I've never really seen done with the adventure game genre is a huge story arc that takes several games to tell with a gigantic backstory that unfolds as the game does.

Imagine Babylon 5 for adventure games.

Because, sure, there have been adventure games with sequels, and sometimes characters come back, but you know they never intended that from the beginning. Most games are entirely self-contained adventures, no previous experience necessary to play.

I think maybe this would help re-energize the genre, make people really want to play the next installment.

1 - Blaster Master (NES)
2 - Space Quest 1-4 (PC)
3 - Wing Commander 1 & 2 (PC)
4 - Star Control 1 & 2 (PC)
5 - NiGHTS: Into Dreams (Sega Saturn)

...in no particular order.

I'm gonna have to go with The Dig. I have yet to play an adventure game that comes even slightly close to bringing together that many elements that I wholeheartedly enjoyed. The plot--which is a lot closer to what I wanted from the movie Contact--the voice-acting, the visuals, the music...it was like they had a camera inside my head.

...except, you know, not literally. 

Carbonated vegemite