Messages

Basically, yes.  http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=33675.0

There are a few attempts as well.  (I'm also in the process of making one)

Either way, it's always great to be your own boss and to go out on a limb with an investment hoping to make money (except in this case there are multiple owners). 
I hope they succeed and make lots of money.

And my point is that this is all because you're just drawing boxes, which are made out of parallel lines. If you were drawing irregular rocks, the vanishing points would help you not one bit.

Just about every man made object has a parallel line.
But you're right, if you're doing some crazy outdoor scene with irregular shaped objects, you're on your own--but isn't that obvious?

The only time you would really need vanishing points for irregularly shaped objects, is if you wanted to draw similar shaped objects of the same size at different depths (which you've already mentioned).

This is what I was referring to.  And if the right box is on a side slope, one vanishing point would be above the horizon while the other would be below. (I did this quickly)

And yes, if it's above the horizon, you can't see the top of it.  But if it's below the horizon, you use vanishing points, no matter what the object is, to determine the angle you see the top at.

Unless you have some crazy gift that you can draw backgrounds without the use of a vanishing point and have them close to exact.

Edit: Let me rephrase this though.  You honestly don't need to do 'realistic' perspective on your backgrounds.  As long as it looks close enough to not be noticeable.  I don't always use perspective and vanishing points.  And when I do (my rooms or scenes are usually viewed from an angle), I toss my 2 vanishing points so far off to the left and right canvas that you'll never have to deal with scaling.

And Layabout, a vanishing point only applies to parallel lines.

Not really actually.  A vanishing point is used for depth, and angle of view.  Imagine a large cylinder type building (a water tower).  Just because the base of this water tower is round, doesn't mean you don't use the vanishing point to determine where it stands, and if you can see the top or bottom of this tower.

Edit: But technically you'd be making a square, on the ground (just viewed from straight on, the side, ect).  Therefor the lines would be technically still be parallel, to determine the how oval to make the base.

But if you were drawing a building or box in the middle of the room that didn't run parallel to the vanishing point.  You'd have to create another vanishing point along the horizon.  Unless the object is on an angle as well, then you'd have to create a vanishing point that is below or above the horizon.

ProgZ, do you have a version of your cup (larger) that is used in the ratings?

This is the biggest one that progz had made.

Now are you talking about this pixel art cup?  Or the one that I made by tweaking progz pixel art cup?
Because the size that is there for the shiny blue cup ratings is the biggest I made.  I could possibly resize it if that is what you were asking for (I keep all my photoshop layered files, in case anyone needs them, especially CJ).

But it says it right on the front page?

Think you've got what it takes?

Adventure Game Studio provides the tools to make your own adventure, for free! Bring your story and artwork and slot it in, and let AGS do the rest.

AGS provides everything you need from within one easy-to-use application. Create, test and debug your game, all in one place. Why wait? Get cracking on your first game now!

Darth, I believe you've done it.

I disagree that the public opinion should be hidden.  It's the only thing that tells you what to expect in the game, other than the cup scores, and the review.  I think it should stay visible like that.  Just as long as whoever makes it in web format makes it so that if the content advisory or whatever isn't visible on some games, that the public opinion always stays aligned to the bottom of the screenshot frame.

The only thing that needs to be changed, is the text visibility of the "Download This Game" button.  It has very tiny spacing and tiny holes/gaps in the letters themselves.  It needs a different font, and possibly a darker blue drop shadow.

The total downloads perhaps would be best if it was written in a sentence without the bold number count.  Like: "Downloaded 19,670 times."  Because having it in the same format as the size of the file is really distracting.  Makes it seem like the download count matters for something.

Anyway, this layout is great.

Edit:
Hopefully the "See the people on the team and other games they've worked on" will pop up a small window instead of doing the drop down.  Otherwise it would destroy the layout in that position.

[Soluble:]

A: Do you always carry your cellphone when you at home? Why do you want a messenger, with no messages in it? The correct question here is: "Why the character automatically didn't read the message when you already have the messenger?" Its because of the players that are non familiar with the Classic Sierra GUI. Because this is the first object that you are taking, and because it's obvious that you have to read this message, I wanted the players to get used with the object inventory. I wanted they to know that there is a lot of useful information. Just like with the pill.

No.  But it's an adventure game.  If he is already going through all that work to pick up the messenger, why doesn't he just take it with him instead?  It doesn't familiarize me with anything, it only annoys me.  Oh.. whats this?  I have to walk to the left side of the screen, touching or looking doesn't change anything, then walk back to the phone and it's suddenly beeping.  Joy for that.

Another thing that completely annoyed me was the fact that you're heading towards this outpost/space station.  Once he gets the message, and knows that where he is traveling will result in death, tell me why touching the speed will speed up the ship and not stop it?  There is zero reason for it.  No, instead you have to QUICKLY look at the navigation screen and find where Q1 and the coordinates are.  If you do it too slowly, you die.  That doesn't familiarize anyone with the inventory at all.  You shouldn't have a speed required task in the beginning of a game, because as you've said, you're trying to familiarize everyone with the controls.

A: If you look at the pill in your inventory, you will get a message telling you that the pill is SOLUBLE and it's for your oil allergy (in the world of Cosmos Quest there is lot of oil and because the main character is mechanic who have to work with lot of oil, he always have the pill with him. But you don't played CQ1 and CQ2).

I understand your twisted logic for having an individual pill in your pocket.  But what would be the harm in having the whole pill bottle?  It wouldn't change the game, it would just make his stupid allergy look more authentic.

Soluble: capable of being dissolved or liquefied.
Now what does that tell you?  It means the pill can be dissolved or liquefied.  What is your saliva made of?  Sand?  Don't argue with me on this one, that was a stupid puzzle, and you can't protect it.

Q: Why is there a barrel of oil with a crowbar on top in the middle of no where?
A: When you step on the surface there is a message that the scanning system on the shuttle detects a weak bio-signal (the dying Harg in the snow). That's why you decided to stop there. So it's no "middle of no where". So this answers why there are things like barrels, crowbar and e.t.c.

Ok now let me take you out of this fairy world you're living in and ask you again.  WHAT is the REASON for having a barrel in the MIDDLE of no where?  They have a shuttle bay for transporting their goods.  The barrel wasn't anywhere near the base.  And it was only one barrel.  Not a whole shipment or anything.
It was odd, and completely out of place.

I understand why the ship landed, the weak bio signal (it's funny cause the Harg was frozen).  I would have prefered "my ship saw this barrel in the middle of no where, some idiot worker left it there I guess, now I must land and walk 5 km to an invisible finger print scanner".

Cosmos Quest is a game that is influenced by my favorite Space Quest with all his dead ends, and sudden deaths, arcade games and illogical puzzles (like when you carry whole ladder in you pockets - SQ3).

But your game isn't comical (or at least I hope it wasn't supposed to be).  Don't try telling me that putting a ladder in the pants of the ego in CQ3 wouldn't break the game.

Unfortunately, I still don't see reason to add my games in a community that only digging the dirt.

I don't dig up 'the dirt', I just don't have any problems telling it like it is.  It's for that very reason you stated, "We're not professionals" (you did sell the game commercially, so technically you're a bad professional), I give advice on what I thought was weak.  It's what I do.

And will make it just like Cosmos Quest 3.

Eeek x 2. lol
At least let me read your storyline and puzzle guide, and I can try to help you.
Do me one favor though.  Don't zoom out so much.  All Sorry, I meant most, of your backgrounds, the character was this tiny little guy.  It makes it so much easier for the person playing to be drawn into the world you create if everything is closer.

PS: I expect you to ask me why when your are in open space (in vacuum) you can hear a sounds? It's a game. In every game or movie you will find something illogical.

Every game / movies / tv show do it.  Heck, I'd do it.  It only makes sense to do it.  Otherwise it'll look empty without the sound effects.
One tv show I know of is Stargate: Universe, and they actually drown out the sound.  So it's very faded and kinda echoey (kinda like when your head is underwater).  Still not realistic, but very effective at giving that 'empty space' feeling.

Edit:

And if you analyze all the games like have you done with CQIII, the most of adventures would not obtain more than 1 or 2 cups. I think that you are too hard with Harg because of his decision. Definitively, it isn't fair.

Nah.  I don't think I'm being unfair at all.  I haven't played all that many AGS games (maybe 30-40 games--possibly more).  There is only one game (edit: other than Cosmos Quest 3) that I can think of at the moment that sent my brain for a trip, mostly because most of the puzzles were a little odd.  But it was actually a comedy game, so the puzzles felt like they fit, it just takes me a while to think it through (I believe most of the game I used a walk-through).  It was Charlie Foxtrot.  Now that game follows closer to Space Quest than Cosmos Quest.  
Which I don't actually see a resemblance to Space Quest in CQ3.  He's wearing a solid suit of armor.  It's not funny.  And there isn't a narrator or even the player character that tells you what is happening in the storyline (at least not well).

And Harg, I understand you're not a native English speaker.  I understand that your grammar, and word placement was a little odd in CQ3.  I didn't actually make that a weak point, because I understand.  It was mostly just the convoluted puzzles and confusing storyline.

Imagine a vanishing point depending on where the camera is.  If you have a non scrolling room with a vanishing point to the right side, that means the camera is to the right side of the room (assuming this is a dead straight view of a back wall of a room).  If the vanishing point is to the left, it would mean the camera is the the left side of the room.

It's a little more difficult with a scrolling room, because technically the camera isn't standing in one spot and panning, it's actually following you.

So if you really think about it, none of the scrolling rooms in AGS have accurate perspective due to technical limitations of it being a 2D background.  Once it becomes a scrolling room, you pretty much have to 'fake' the perspective.  It's sad, I know.

Edit:
Actually there is a cool forum where these guys were trying to figure this out, I bumped into this after posting the above message.  Here is how you 'fake' panning of the camera (which would be the camera sitting in one spot rotating around and around):

Read more here.

I like it, yet I don't.

What happens if the game description is just simply: "It's a pirate game. Yo Ho".  You'll have a large section of white.
Things won't line up all that well with most games.

Some games don't have Genre or Content Advisory, so that would pop the game description up higher, unless it's in a separate table below the game info and picture.

You're also missing the Panel review, which is the second most important description for me.  I read it all the time.
I realize you fixed the '10 years making games' message, but I find it almost harder or maybe as equally as hard to read.  Perhaps a drop shadow instead of an outer glow?

I'll have to look at the other game page before coming up with any other ideas/suggestions.  I'll get back to ya, Darth.

Edit:
How does something like this look?


If a game doesn't have any awards, your right side would be very empty, or if the game description was very small, the left side would be very empty.
I figured this way, if the game doesn't have any trophies, the "this game was brought to you by" section could go back to 100% width.
Also the player rating on visuals and such seem like an important part of the games rating, so i figured somewhere up high would be best.

I like what you did with the rounded outlines instead of just empty rectangles as CJ had it.  I also really like the Download button being underneath of the game image.  It really stands out.

I may as well post this here as well.

The game: AMTAG: another medieval themed adventure game, has an image that requires a username and password, just from accessing it's game page.

This is one reason why I think images should at least be stored on the AGS site.  I can't see that taking up too much space.  Uploading them to a Blob on a PHP table (I'm just learning about this stuff from random internet research the other day, so I may be saying it wrong), or something similar to that.  I understand the games not being part of the server, but the images I can't see taking up too much space or bandwidth.  It almost seems like an 1/8 of the images are broken.

I was thinking again about the ratings per game.  You have a variable or whatever the checks if a person has already rated a game, correct?  At least I don't believe you can rate more than once, or at least I haven't tried.  It would be cool if you could check for that when a person loads the individual game page, and have it say something like "You haven't rated this game yet, click here to rate this game.".  That would be really nice to have.

One thing I'm happy you've corrected was the image url.  When you were at the current games page (the old one), if you'd click the image it would send you to the enlarged image rather than going to the page for that game.  lol
Every single time I'm in that old games page, I always click the image because I can never seem to remember to click the title in white text.  Yes, I appear to be pretty dense. So thanks for not doing that with the new layout.

Also the new player rating being in cup format is quite wicked.  Thanks for adding that.  
I love seeing the new icons and cups now.  I get a smile going from one random game to the next, just from seeing those graphics.

This is my last edit. If something else is wrong, well... I guess no one is gonna judge my game for its graphics.

Well taken that you've completely disregarded what we've, and especially SpacePirateCaine, have mentioned and pointed out on perspective issues.. I can't see you improving any background if you're going disregard those suggestions because perspective is a very important part of an adventure background.

Your color choices are much better and I like the little objects laying around.  Makes the background much more entertaining.

[Saion]

I decided to give this game a try since this whole ratings controversy with your thoughts on the panel.

Without trying to sound like I'm agreeing with the panel out of spite to your actions to remove your game, but after playing CQ3, I must admit that 2/5 cups is a worthy rating.  CQ3 has a poorly written story, horrible and unreal puzzles, bad visual indications of exit locations, confusing dialog, and no real known purpose as to why everything was happening.  It seems like there is only 6 textures in the whole game, every background, every detail in that background uses the same low resolution, repeating texture.

The only thing in the game that I really liked were the animations.

Here are some of the things I've written down while playing the game, things that bothered me or things I felt deserved attention:


After setting the ship to full speed and dying right away, you get the battle cutscene and the text says:
Getz, your shuttle was an easy target for the battle crafts. Radion Space Saion as well. (should be Station)

Why was the messenger useless to me before getting a message, but once there is one, I suddenly want the messenger?

Why is there a barrel of oil with a crowbar on top in the middle of no where?  And looking at the barrel tells me that the area is unpopulated.  I don't get it.  Also using the crowbar on the barrel says "You can't open it, it's sealed". ?

Finger scanner on a random rock?  Hardly visible?  I could have played for weeks without noticing that.  Thankfully there was a walk-through on the internet.  Even once I was told in the walk-through that a rock has a finger scanner, it still took me a while to visually spot it.  It's in a completely random spot, I would have been perfectly happy with a finger print scanner beside the door itself.

The hotspots to go to another room/area in the ice world are a complete pixel hunt. Everything is so zoomed out, and there isn't a single indication that one edge of the screen would take you somewhere when the other edge wouldn't. Not even a trail of condensed snow, or anything that would indicate a path. That my friend is a pixel hunt.

Responses are very odd.  Like using interact with the keycard scanner results in: "Don't tell me that you intend to put your hand in the slot!".  Umm no, I intend to interact with it, thanks though.

Looking at the battery: "It's a battery - Loaded", should be "It's a fully charged battery".

The oil allergy is complete rubbish, and I felt this destroyed that whole scene. I tried forever to swallow the pill, but for some unknown reason, swallowing the pill isn't possible and the player won't tell you that. You need water.  It's a poorly thought out puzzle, idea, and the AGS default inventory GUI made this puzzle even worse.  Especially without the ability to click on the player character.  You'd think interacting the pill on the pill would at least give you a message telling you that you need water, or something as informative.
You also just 'happen' to have only one pill for your 'oil allergies' in your inventory from the start.  I always carry a single pill in my pockets, screw the pill bottle.

All of your 'next' room hotspots in this Isagor bunker are like 20 pixels from the edge of the screen.  You have these huge openings on all the doorways, and you choose to place the hotspot on the edge of the screen instead.

Rhomulian? It's a little close to Star Trek, Romulans.  I get annoyed every time I read it.

A small thermos filled with raw oil is enough to power a space craft?  You could have completely done without that puzzle, and instead you could have just had some sort of power crystal you take from some location in the bunker, perhaps from the power train itself.  Or you could have just had the spacecraft full of fuel/energy to begin with.

The girl in the cell just happens to know the button that you press, and not only that she knows the degree it was facing too.  It was a 270 degree 'C' and a horizontally mirrored L.  Why couldn't she just say "It was a downwards facing C, and backwards L" if anything.

The guy guarding the casino; ask him the right question instead of the 'left' questions?  That's English wordplay, not Zigi wordplay.

How many times do you have to look at the panel to get the robot to serve a table, before the damn thing finally decides to start flashing?  You literally just have to leave the room and come back and suddenly for no reason it's flashing.  Why would there be a need for a serving panel if the customer is pressing it on the table?  Why wouldn't the robot not just go there instead of the need for human interaction.

A hole in the coin? I can understand 'maybe' the robot dropping the coin if there was a hole in it, but the restaurant owner tells you he does it all the time.  So what were the odds that, that coin had a hole in it?  Also what are the odds that you have papers in your inventory on robot repair?

Putting that fruit on those steamers seemed like a random puzzle.  You're telling me that one fruit has enough potency to knock out everyone in a large room?


The biggest issue is that your puzzles are more like annoyances, rather than minor obstacles.

I'm sorry man, I'm not trying to sound like an ass, but it's how I felt through the whole game.  Confused, confused, and even more confused.
I know you took a great deal of time to make this game, perhaps I am sounding a little more harsh since you've been angry about your rating, but my opinion is definitely the truth.

I'm hoping if you make another game, you either completely drop the Cosmos Quest series and make something new, or completely think out your game design beforehand.  Not just puzzles, but story as well.  I have no idea why CQ3 ended in a war between the two species only because I helped escape the prisoners and drugged the mine owner at the casino.  I'm completely baffled.  And I have no idea why the game didn't end after I helped the prisoners escape, there was no indication as to why I was sitting around the restaurant or why my stolen vessel was considered a threat.  Not to mention why I was sent to a prison cell at the end.  Is this something you need to play CQ1 and 2 to understand?

Because I believe it won't be a small percentage that choose the 'don't rate my game' option.  I can foresee it being 25% or more.

I've pressed that Lucky Dip feature in the new website layout more than 100 times now, and to tell you the truth, I haven't seen a game with a lesser player rating than blue cup rating.  Which is why I completely trust the panel, because the average gamer is just like "meh, 10 out of 10, I loved it" -- you see that comment all the time.  Every AGS game that I've played, I can agree more with the panel rating than I do with the player rating.  Which is why the panel was there in the first place.

I would almost rather the games not be in the database, then to see no ratings at all.  The keyword there being: almost.

Something like this instead of the colors you have.  It's a little washed out cause I did it quickly by mostly just desaturating the image, but you get the idea I hope.  I didn't touch the perspective issues whatsoever, so I hope you don't think that is correct still.



And I quickly painted a dude in that painting because I refuse to upload an image with a resized jpeg in an MS-Paint style background.

If that were the case, when I go to sort games by cup rating and that one persons game isn't shown because it doesn't have a cup rating.  I guess it would be their own fault that I'll never play their game, due to not seeing it in the list.  Unless the game strikes my interest from the completed games thread.

There are two people I can see selecting the 'do not rate my game' option. 
One, someone who released a joke game, or deep down knows their game isn't worth anything at all (which I can say I'm ok with number one). 
Two, someone who just can't handle the truth and wants to hide the true rating their game deserves.  They also deep down know their game isn't worth a higher rating, but when they see the lower rating attached to their game, they can't handle it.

If I made a game and it received a rating I wasn't too pleased with, or even a review commenting on bad/broken areas which I had believed were perfectly done.  I wouldn't freak out.  Of course, I would probably drop my jaw in disbelief at first.  Then I'd play my game over again from beginning to end and see if there was any truth to the review, have I been blind to my own creation? 
If I ended up noticing the flawed areas of my game that the lesser review and rating was indicating, I'd probably engrave that information into my brain for my next game, so that I wouldn't do it again.
But, If I still couldn't see why it was rated so much lower than I anticipated, I probably would have pm'd progz because I've always known he's been on the panel.  And ask him to get the person who reviewed and rated it to explain it more in depth, or even possibly re review and rate the game.


Anyway, out of all honestly.  If we as a community of game players, have the option to vote yes or no to this idea of skipping out on the panel ratings and reviews... I say No.  I do not want some games to be able to avoid what every game must go through.  Otherwise everything the panel has done here in the past few years, would be useless.

Keep doing what you're doing guys (and it looks so good now with my new blue cups on the new template page.. mmm lol).

I don't have much time right now, I'll respond later today if no one else does. 
The two biggest issues are color, and perspective.

Colors.  Unless you're making Mickey Mouse's house, those colors are very MSPaint standard pallet colors.  How often do you see a bright pink carpet, and bright red couches, chairs, and bookshelves?

Lots of issues with perspective.  The left side of that dinner table has more of an angle than the right side, which is clearly backwards.  If I were you, I'd Google up: One point perspective.
The shelves on the bookshelf are angled downward because the sides aren't parallel with the ground.
The tv and bookshelf have no depth, neither do the windows.  I'm really not sure what those black lines in the windows are.  Are they supposed to be bars?

The height of the railing (not to mention the bright orange color and solid panel) is very high.  It's almost the same height as the door.

One thing I've always disliked in this style of background, is when someone grabs a jpg image from google and slaps it in for a painting/picture on a wall.  It clearly isn't drawn in the same style as the rest of the background, therefor it's the first thing I look at and it stands out like big red target on a white house.


Out of all the AGS games I've played, the one who's graphics I remember and liked the most were actually the simple ones.  This one is definitely one of my favorites.  It's from the game A Cure for the Common Cold.
Now just take a look at the coloring in that background.  Everything has a realistic, cartoony tone.  Simple textures on the walls, simple creases in the fabric.  It's so simple to do, yet it looks great.

Anyway, I'm not trying to sound like I'm being rude or anything, but you did ask for my criticism.

That bikini bimbo still has a crazy backwards lean to her, which Progz had already mentioned about her.
She looks like she's balancing on her right leg (the left leg).  Poor girl is going to fall over.