Messages

Seems like a tech question to me...

Since it seems like you'll have to use a separate region and walkable area for the bit where the steps appear, I would draw them on the background and cover them up with an object (which you can perhaps also use to do the animation of the falling stalactite). That way you'll have an easier time knowing where to draw the regions and areas.

Cool. I'm glad you got it sorted out!

I'm probably going to offend someone by saying this, but I absolutely detest the Roger smilies, to the extent that if I need one I'll rather insert a generic one from somewhere else as an image.

The brown, greenish-brown and red is just so ... bleh! And the neck makes them look like keyholes. Also, the fact that half the smilies are generic ones and look much better (shaded, anti-aliased) just reinforces how bad the Roger ones are.

Flippy D's would be a definite improvement.

If the smilies absolutely have to be AGS-themed, why not have blue cup smilies?

And using a spelling that was invented by Aleister Crowley is only done by pretentious wankers who've read too much Sandman. It's the exactly the preciousness of the spelling that annoys me.

Nah, it's the other way around: Tolkien spelled it "dwarves" when the usual spelling is "dwarfs".

I think if done with taste it would be cool. Just don't use "magick".

You should check out 'Riddley Walker' by Russel Hoban. That's got some of the most crazy messed-up spelling I've ever read (outside of the Internet).

I think the error is in the while condition. You are testing (tehy <= tehx), but what you want to know is that (tehy <= tehmousey). You can see how this would cause the problems you describe.

What are the if-statements for? (tehmousey <= 500) should always be true (if you're running 320x200 rez). (tehx > 200) is just... irrelevant. These if-statements contribute to the strange behavior of your code.

There's also a minor bug where it might overshoot by up to 9 pixels and then snap back. (Hint: it's safest to update the variables tested in the while condition as the last thing you do in the loop. Otherwise the condition might not hold true throughout the loop.)

Here's a fixed version:

function GUIScroll(int gui){
Ã,  Ã,  int tehx = mouse.x;
Ã,  Ã,  int tehy = -10;
Ã,  Ã,  int tehmousey = mouse.y;
Ã,  Ã,  SetGUIPosition(gui, tehx, 0);
Ã,  Ã,  GUIOn(3);
Ã,  Ã,  while (tehy < tehmousey){
Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  SetGUIPosition(gui, tehx, tehy);
Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Wait(1);
Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  tehy = tehy + 10;
Ã,  Ã,  }
Ã,  Ã,  SetGUIPosition(gui, tehx, tehmousey);
}

Edit: Removed excess closing brackets

What about a password system?

Instead of using the inbuilt AGS walk command, you could move the character manually by setting its X and Y coordinates. That way the walk animation won't interfere with the animation you set. You won't have the pathfinding, however.

I think part of your problem is that you're refusing to do it in the way intended in AGS. If you want to use a different walk animation, you should make a separate view. "I don't want to use views because everything in my game uses loops" is not a compelling argument.

Tip: Your subject is a bit vague. You might get more help if you called it something like "Move walk-to point from feet to center".

There was a thread about something similar. What you want seems simpler, though. Could you not just intercept walk-to commands and add charHeight/2 to the y-value?

But I wouldn't classify McGee's Alice as innovative as Dune II. McGee's Alice was a run-of-the-mill actioner (granted, a very playable run-of-the-mill action) whereas Dune II changed the way strategy games were played. Before Dune II, most strategy games were turn based affairs and a lot of them used that hex-map feature. Dune II made them more exciting. And it also paved the way for games like Command and Conquer and Warcraft.

I wouldn't call Alice as innovative as Dune II either. I was just using it as an example to demonstrate that how substantial a computer game is doesn't depend on how well it captures the substance of the original.

Which was intended to support my original argument that American McGee's Alice wouldn't have been any more substantial by hewing closer to the original in tone.

Settle, matey. My tone t'was nothing more than a joke.

Heh. Good one. 

My point was you don't have to ask me to explain why a "dark Alice" doesn't work because I already have in my previous posts. Not only that, Capt Mostly explained reasons too. Have a re-read of the thread. Maybe it'll make more sense now in hindsight.

I did, and -- honest truth -- the only thing that resembled an argument addressing this issue was your statement that the action, psycho-thriller and parody elements worked against each other. As for Capt Mostly, I thought we had already dispensed with his argument that McGee didn't "get" the Alice stories. It's probably time to let this point go, though.

A guy called Chris Jones, though not our CJ. This would be the Chris Jones who later became known as Tex Murphy.

(a) is being a little picky, because they're still adaptations of better-known media forms.

The reason I pointed it out is that I think (most) movies and (most) computer games are closer in spirit than (most) books and (most) computer games are. For instance, one could argue that the James Bond games (GoldenEye and whatnot) capture the substance of the movies, because the substance of both is to provide a certain kind of action and spy-tastic stylishness.

As you further discuss, yes, adventure games and RPGs are more suited to such adaptations. However, that doesn't mean you can't have a platform game (or arcade, rather) that has more substance than a movie or book. A good example is Robocop 3. The film was dire, but the game conversion by Ocean was quite an extraordinary use of 3D graphics for its time and very playable.

Right. But that's not a matter of capturing the substance of the original, but rather of creating an entirely original substance of its own. Just take an example like Dune II, which fails completely (because it doesn't even try) at capturing the substance of the book, but is a very substantial game on its own terms.

I'll elaborate. I think it tries too hard at presenting its multi-facetedness. There are other games out there that can do a better job without trying so hard. Where McGee's Alice is attempting this dark parody of Alice in Wonderland, it's still just a hack-and-slack action game. A game like Hitman or Deus Ex has extra elements compared to the standard action game, but they're a little more hidden (consider it a subtextual ideology, if you will). Whereas Alice is in-your-face, Hitmen and Deus Ex are more subtle in presenting psychological trauma or political discourse. It's not a case of "too shallow" or "too deep", but just "it tries too hard".

OK.

I think I must have missed that explanation; I can't see it anywhere in the thread.

Is this another example of mis-reading in this thread, or just ignorance? I've spent the last few posts in this thread explaining why. If you've missed my explanation, than perhaps you should re-read my posts very carefully. If you still are having trouble, perhaps a reading comprehension course might help.

Don't much care for your tone there, mate. It's more likely a matter of us having a different idea of what I'm asking you to explain. I've seen you argue why the game doesn't work as a parody of Alice, but not (at least until the paragraph above) why it doesn't work as a dark reimagining of Alice.

Could you give some examples of this ridicule?

For example, the weapons that Alice uses are a parody of certain items or motifs in the game. I.e. a pack of cards, or the flamingo/croquet racket.

I wouldn't think of that as a parody, but as an Alice-themed arsenal.

Also, the look of well-known characters are portrayed in a grotesque fashion that lampoons the original story.

But portraying the characters from the original in a grotesque fashion is what making a dark version is all about. Again, I don't see that this makes it a parody.

But like I said, it's difficult to ascertain whether the game wants to be a parody or an in-your-face action game. That's one of the reasons I thought McGee's Alice wasn't done too well (this should also partially answer your previous question).

Why can't it be both?

Likewise with games. I've played The Black Cauldron, and liked it, but I've never seen the Disney film or read the book. But I'm guessing the both film and book are better than the game. Call it a hunch.

I can vouch for the books, at least.

I think it's pointless to compare the "substance" of a computer platform game with that of two books. Of course the game is not going to be as substantial!

Let me put it this way: I don't think the game would have been any more substantial if it had stuck more closely to Lewis Carroll's vision.

I disagree. For example, I think LucasArts' Fate of Atlantis has as much substance as the Indy movies. And what about Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy? Blade Runner too? Thus, I think it's fair to say you can make a computer game with as much substance as other media formats.

Right. I notice there's been a bit of debate about what I meant with my statement (though however people interpret me, they seem to be disagreeing with me!).

My argument, more carefully stated, is that the substance of a book or books cannot be captured in a computer platformer. Your counterexamples have two serious problems: a) They're not adaptations of books (HHGTTG started out as a radio play, and although BR the game takes elements from Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, it's mainly based on the movie), and b) they are not platform games.

If any computer games come close to providing the same kind of substance books do, it's those in the adventure game genre (as well as some games usually thought of as RPGs). Like books, they rely heavily on dialogue, characterization and exposition. Games that downplay those ingredients may be substantial as well, but in a very different way.

If that description is broadly correct, I would say it's a remarkably thorough exploration of a multi-faceted idea, not a "one-joke" concept.

But I think if that's the case, the game is trying too hard at being "deep". A game like Hitman or Deus Ex does this sort of multi-faceted exploration so much better (especially Hitman from a psychological standpoint).

I'm afraid I don't follow. Isn't this a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't argument? Either it's too shallow or it's trying to be too deep?

I'm not disputing dark Alice at all. I just don't think it was done very well and explained why.

I think I must have missed that explanation; I can't see it anywhere in the thread.

Migs previously said it was a parody. I was responding to him. However, while it's true that it's not jokes that makes parody, it's the ridicule of certain elements that does make a parody. And McGee's Alice does ridicule, and as I've said I don't think it does it very well.

Could you give some examples of this ridicule?

[The ShiningAlienThe BroodRingu (The Ring)]

For me, a great horror movie has to be bed-wettingly scary (so something like The 6th Sense or Bram Stoker's Dracula, though good films, are out), but also be a high-quality film in general (which excludes IT and most serial killer movies).

Some films that achieve both:

The Shining
Alien
The Brood
Ringu (The Ring)

Does the willow grove or the old oak tree not count as druidic groves? I'm not sure, but I think I used to go to the old oak tree to transform.

Been a long time since I played the game, but I think I remember this as a problem.

Can you use the map to warp directly into a druidic grove, then immediately start entering the hand code? Or is the map inaccessible at this point?

It's possible that this is one of those timer bugs that plague many old Sierra games on fast computers. There's a patch that might fix it. Otherwise, it's worth trying it under DOSBox if you're not already.

Back when I was a kid and games came on floppies, I would be playing the games with friends. Either together sitting around the same computer, or at least in parallel, discussing puzzles at school the next day. We didn't have any walkthroughs or hint books, but being more people certainly helped: if we got stuck on a puzzle we would take turns trying to crack it while the others played Nintendo or watched TV or whatever the hell we did back in those days.

I kinda miss that.Ã,  :'( When I play an adventure game now, it's by myself. When I get stuck there's no one to help me out, and so I'll take a peek at a walkthrough.

UHS is still around. Just type the letters into Google. Most of the hint files remain free.

I can't resist saying the No-Action Jackson review score is absurd. 74%? Cuckoo!

No-Action Jackson is a great game, but the version that was released is so buggy that I don't see how any reviewer could justify a score above 75%. Which was exactly the reason given in the review.

Yeah, it looks nice. Very impressive.

I'm not sure about the composition, though. Apart from issues with how the room is laid out, the way the "camera" is positioned means that the floor covers most of the screen. Maybe you'll have a GUI to cover up the bottom third or so of the screen, but otherwise you might want to consider if this is what you want players to be looking at.

I don't know what you want to attract attention to on this screen. Currently it's split between the TV and the drawers on the left, which gives the impression that it lacks unity somewhat. Adding a rug or something could "really tie the room together" (and would help with the floor issue).

I know this isn't exactly the kind of C&C you were asking for, but I really don't think there's a problem with any of the things you mentioned.

The red herring in Monkey Island was actually a meta-red herring. The fact that it was a red herring seemed like a clue that it had no purpose, when in fact it did, making the red herring-ness of the red herring a red herring. 

The troll's explanations of what he wants ("I want something that distracts attention from what's really important") are real clues, on the other hand.