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I love the rocket snail! It has a great retro sci-fi feel to it. For some reason I am reminded of The Monster that Challenged the World.

I'm actually already using the API documentation as a reference, but your comments are appreciated.

I made a couple of small applications in preparation for this one, and I'm definitely left with an impression similar to yours. As far as low level graphical control goes, C or C++ libraries are much more helpful. And for any serious 3d effort I wouldn't even consider Java an option. (I've done a little work with C and C++ in the past.) I chose to learn Java for a few reasons, and game development was rather far down the list. That being said, this particular game fits Java somewhat better than most. It's very graphically uncomplicated, and development plans include an applet version and standalone versions for multiple platforms; with only one developer who's really not a programmer at heart, Java seemed appealing.


Here's an extremely early screenshot- tinkering with a couple of creatures for the overworld. For the record, the final graphics code hasn't been started yet.

If MillsJROSS or anyone has any further suggestions or knows of good books or online resources, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

First guideline for newbies:  Make a very small game first.

I second that! Just make a two-room unambitous project with very low quality standards for the sake of learning how to work.

"Should I bother spending a lot of time on details from the beginning, or should I put very bare-bones sprites and rooms together and then try to add detail later once the project has gotten some of its own momentum?

Should I work on making a very polished and very short demo so that I can more quickly get feedback on the overall project?

I'd very strongly recommend adding no details at all until the whole game is playable. Sketch out the game with no backgrounds and no character art (especially not animation). It goes really fast, and it's a lot of fun. That way you can quickly find out what elements of your game are fun and what isn't, and you can rearrange everything to your liking before investing hundreds of hours in final assets. The more polish you invest in the first draft, the less flexible it will be. It's also exponentially slower to create new content at a finished level, and at the start of a project it's important to keep the work moving quickly toward clear goals and not get discouraged.

It can be disheartening looking at a prototype with no graphics, so while you are working create some neat concept art that reflects the atmosphere and 'spirit' of the game. Don't actually make any in-game art yet, just draw pictures of the characters in the game world. Making concept art + a prototype will go very quickly compared to actually making the game.

As for a demo, I think any polished demo would need to come fairly late in a project, after a lot of character animation, custom feature scripting, and planning has happened. I'm not sure that using a polished demo as a way of quickly generating ideas or feedback is an efficient. I'd advise making a graphics-free prototype + concept art instead.

I'm currently working on a small java game. I've never before worked on a game without the aid of a framework like AGS, so it's both challenging and fun. The most difficult part so far has been designing all the classes so they'll work together in a somewhat orderly fashion. I'm really not very familiar with object oriented programming yet.

So the question is, are any folks around here familiar with a forum or resources that might help an enthusiastic beginner learn the ropes? For reference the project is an old-fashioned roleplaying game in the vein of ADOM or Rogue.

I've found a lot of tutorials, but don't have any reference books yet. And I have yet to find a forum that doesn't seem to be populated by neanderthals.

Thanks advance for any suggestions. And as an aside, I'm absolutely not abandoning my AGS project, I'm just temporarily shifting gears because I'm taking a Java class this semester.

Re: heated debate- I don't have particularly strong feelings about tax one way or another. Living in the USA, I do find myself regretting that my taxes contribute to funding our armed forces. But I have no compunctions about paying for wellfare, public schools, civil services, etc.

In general I'm not very interested accruing vast sums of wealth. As long as I'm healthy and able to do the things that matter to me, money is a non-issue.

I work as an assistant to disabled people. I make 15 UDS per hour (10.6 EURO), and work around 10 hours per day. I'm not working this semester, as I am back is school (yay). My parents are kindly covering my expenses so I can focus on schoolwork, though I do some freelance art on the side.

As a side note, the cost of living frugally here is about 450 USD (318 EURO) for rent, another 50 USD (35 EURO)  for utilities, and 150 USD (106 EURO) for food.

The sprite versions sort of remind me of Nightfable's sprites. Which is a good thing, in case there was any confusion.

Uhfgood- I really like your paintovers, they have a lot of polish. I can see why Ben might want to go with a less 'pretty' female face than yours, but that's a matter of taste rather than quality. As for the male face, I was going to make some of the same suggestions until I saw your post. I think the broader nose and fatter lip help. I'd add  chunkier eyebrows to the mix to make him look more like the sprite, maybe some more definition around his eyes and nose too? I figure he's a tough cookie, so he gets more bones and wrinkles.

Ack, I broke with your style a bit, Ben.

[New layer mask:]

"Keep transparency" is useful. The only real benefit of using a separate mask instead is that you can paint directly into the mask, copy and paste, use smudge/convolve, etc. without no fear of messing up the layer itself, even after there's a lot of detail in the layer. I almost forgot- you can also copy the mask from one layer to another, and that way you can have multiple layers per object (like one for a table's color and a second for its shading).

I'll fire up the Gimp and see if I can remember the keyboard shortcuts for using layer masks. OK, here goes:
New layer mask: right click on a layer in the 'layers' dialog, and press 'y'
Begin painting into layer mask: left click on the layer mask's thumbnail in the 'layers' dialog (click on layer's thumb to stop)
Show layer mask: alt-left click on the mask's thumbnail. (Alt-click again to return the view to normal.)

Another tip I found really useful is putting highlights in their own layer(s), with the mode set to "addition". That way you can repaint the color, shading, etc. without having to retouch all the highlights. I hope that was helpful, I have a tendency to sound like a patronizing windbag when I least expect it.

Thanks for the read. I was involved in a team project a couple of years ago and the team lead certainly could have benefitted from your advice. I particularly like your suggestion to section off the project into reasonably sized bits. That's a great way to keep the person assigned the job from losing motivation or getting discouraged. I can testify to that. You see, I was assigned a task that was too big and I, err, lost motivation and got discouraged

Dear MT,
How do you do? Today I went to work and tried to recall how to weld aluminum. When I arrived at home there was a tiny white kitten on the front step. Later I made tomatillo salsa. Then my room mate asked me, "How is your world domination plan coming along?" After that I danced to the Cho Ren Sha 68k soundtrack. I've been away from my AGS project too long!. I'm taking a programming class and am busy making a roguelike: (1) as a learning experience, (2) because it's fun, and (3) because it seems like a worthwhile effort. Sorry AGS project! I love you, and I will finish you!
Edit: After many failed attempts, I hit 111 chains on stage 1 in Ikaruga.

I like your background so far. You have my respect for working with a mouse! What a challenge. I like your approach; most of the backgrounds for my AGS project are done using a very similar procedure. One problem I've run into is that it can be fiddly to constantly switch layers during the shading process.

It sometimes helps me a lot to do a rough shading job before working with layering. I usually turn off everything but the sketch, and create a new layer in multiply mode. Then I set out the overall arrangement of light and shadow.

Once the rough shading is done, I make all the layers and use the rough shading layer as reference when shading them. This background isn't the best example because it's not heavily layered, but I hope it shows how a shading sketch can help.


Left to right: sketch, rough shading, final layered image.

Also it looks like you're already using them, but if not layer masks are really useful for this kind of work. My apologies if I'm repeating anything you already know.

I do thoroughly approve of putting Robots of Dawn on hold, much as I liked seeing your progress. Those sprites are tops! But there's only so much one can do at once (unfortunately). I like your '5 rooms' idea. But I'd start smaller- do a thoroughly unintimidating one-room game with only one character, just for the sake of finishing something! Then when you're done it will be even easier to approach a 5 room adventure with confidence.

I just had to make a similar decision myself. It was painful to put my in-progress adventure on the shelf. But I'm back in school and I temporarily don't have the time...

It sounds like you've got a good attitude about things in general, even if not everything is going the way you want it to right now. I'm sure things will change soon if you keep trying and stay optimistic.

As for insomnia, I had minor trouble sleeping a few months ago. For me the problem was depression- eventually things started looking up and I can sleep normally now. I don't know if you've had any history of depression, but if so it might be as simple as that. Otherwise I hope someone else's suggestion or your doctor sheds some light on the situation. Best wishes!

While I'm not as excited about the second and third games as I was about the first, I look forward to playing through Halo 3 with a friend this weekend. I'd like to try to address some of the complaints people have made about the series, more for the sake of discussion than to prove a point.

First off, historically Bungie is one of the few companies that focuses on quality over novelty and breadth*. They aren't terribly original, and I'd be the first in line to say that in terms of truly new ideas Halo is almost bankrupt. What they're trying for is to take a small number of simple ideas and make an atmospheric, solid feeling, well-balanced game out of them, and put in a lot of work to make sure a thriving community grows around the game. The idea is that if you pour a given amount of effort into fewer gameplay elements you'll end up with a higher quality product.

I respect people who criticise Halo's lack of originality. If you go at the series expecting something really different or new, you'll likely come away disappointed. It's really not that kind of game, and I understand where you're coming from. I see Halo 3 falling into the niche of a fun, simple arcadey experience, sort of like a modern Pac-Man. I look forward to hearing what more people think of Halo 3, and why people think it either did or didn't work.

*I feel that Halo 2 and 3 mark a trend toward less minimalist games, unfortunately. Earlier Bungie games such as the Marathon series, Myth, and Halo 1 are better examples.

Risk is fun. My friends and I used to pretend to be world dictators and stay up until three in the morning playing that game.

As children my brother and I sometimes made up board games. I have fond memories of that. Actually in hindsight, the pattern was more like this; I would obsess for hours over a board game, then I would spend the rest of the day trying to convince my brother to play it.

My favorite traditional game is Go. It's a lot of fun. It has an elegant, simple ruleset, but the strategy that emerges is so deep one could literally study it for a lifetime. I really like the esthetics of the game as well. I used to play every day, but there came a point where I decided I'd rather dedicate time to art and making computer games instead.

I think the best reason to make games is because it's worthwhile for the creators as individuals. A game's world and characters are fun to spend time with. Seeing them come over into our world, or telling a story with personal significance, can mean a lot.

More practically (ho-hum), making games is a constructive use of time. It's a great way to learn new skills. I think there's also something to be said for seeing a project through to completion. If you can finish something, even something small and insignificant, you'll forever be able to look back at it and gain confidence from it. A small project can enable larger ones in the future, and can be an invaluable addition to any industry hopeful's portfolio or resume.

Well, the posts here have been helpful somewhat-but... ...what if you only had one idea, and you believed it was the only shot you had, and if it didn't get downloaded enough, then it was a failure and the only game you'd ever make?

And then I started to think, well, what if this was MY game? That would have been my only chance, really. And if I only got 60 downloads and that was about it, then it wouldn't have been very successful in my opinion.

I have a friend who's writing a novel, and he thinks this way. The story idea has been with him since he was a child, and means a lot to him. Writing is immensely difficult under the burden of needing to get everything exactly right. Everything he writes needs to live up to his mental image of how the story should be. It sounds like you have a similar project in mind. I know how hard it is to bring a story like this to life, and I earnestly hope you don't encounter too many frustrations.

I'd advise you to start with a small side project, and use it as a way to learn how to go about making the game. That way you can make mistakes without feeling like you're betraying the story that means so much to you. When you finish the side project, maybe you'll feel ready to do bigger things.

I love teeny citrus fruits. Those and the tiny finger sized bananas. Miniature food is fun.

One wacky possibility is to use Life as a system of divination... obtain a card with a 4x4 pattern on it, bring it to the fortune teller, and receive a prediction based on how the pattern plays out. Sort of like tea leaves or the I Ching.
Or perhaps the player could track down patterns in various places in the environment, enter them on a life board, and use the resulting patterns to unlock items or areas...
Another idea is that the board could be a set of plantlike organisms that periodically go dormant. When they are dormant, the player can pick them up and move them around. Supose the player needs 10 of them in another area of the game. He could arrange the few that exist naturally in such a way as to maximize the number that are produced...
Hmm, I wonder what other possibilities there are?

OK, here is the humble and slow AGS version of life:
zip, compiled plus source

Sparky, I need a bit more an explanation! I don't understand this at all... I've had a go (drawing Mods seemed to keep it "alive" for quite a while) but I don't see how a puzzle could become of this... There's no winning or losing so how could you win/lose a puzzle in an adventure game of this nature? Heh...confusing

Mods- if you're new to the game, to get started quickly, click on one of the random buttons (3, 4, or 5) and then click on 'Start'. Or draw something from this list of figures.

Nikolas- good ideas, those are really creative! I like the idea of guessing the next pattern- that might work well with a small board or a simplified rule set.

The problem is that such puzzles are trivial to people who know what they're about, and totally incomprehensible to people who don't.

Good point, Radiant. Unless it came with a fairly lengthy (and potentially boring) explanation, all but the most simple "life" type games would be incomprehensible to most. An example of a puzzle with similar problems is the 'programmable' machine in The Dig.

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~cs8k-cyu/flash/la2/
for inspiration here's a shooter using the game of life rules for your bullets and the badguys.

Ooh, Kenta Cho goodness- thanks, I haven't been keeping tabs on him lately! That's an interesting game idea.

Sparky: ADOM, an RPG, had the "game of life" for cultivating crops. If you wanted to plant something, the plants behaved as the "lights" in the game of life.

Crops? That's a neat idea. I've a good friend who swears by ADOM, though I haven't yet played it. I'll give it a go tonight.

What sorts of neat adventure game puzzles could be designed involving Life (or a variation)? Post your ideas here, hopefully this will spawn some neat AGS puzzles.
If you're unfamiliar with the game, there's some info and an applet here. Be forewarned, it's kind of addictive.

How could one integrate it into the game world? As a tile floor? As Myst-style GUI puzzle? As physical creatures or plants that behave like the cells in Life? It would be nice to have it not feel horribly contrived, but this may be a tall order.


An LED Life board from Dropout Design

P.S.- there's a (poorly scripted) AGS version of Life in the works, it'll be up for download later today in this thread.

Could we see a screen capture of the dithered character in a dithered environment? I could see it potentially working.

Also you're working in a program with layers, you could have the value and hue dithering separate from the drawing itself. That would simplify animation.