Messages

Then you are against two men doing whatever they want.

I mean outside of sex. 

Am I supposed to feel insulted? I am not! I couldn't care less if you thought I was gay or not.

Let me put it another way (Why I bother I don't know..), you find women attractive, yes? Can you explain why you find women attractive? Did you choose to like them?

It was a joke. Have you ever heard of those? I wasn't trying to stir up an argument, okay?

You agree they should have the same rights as everyone else? I'm going to be honest... given your past comments, that surprises but pleases me. Do you think they should be given the right to adopt children and marry?

Also, can you elaborate on this whole special government benefits thing? I'm not really sure what you mean by it... I mean, it automatically makes me think of the Gay Parade that Brighton has... which is sponsered by several big companies but is absolutely BRILLIANT... everybody has such an amazing time, gay or not gay... it's just a massive colourful loud party in Brighton that everybody enjoys. So, I wouldn't be against that... but I'm still not sure what you mean exactly. Soo... elaborate? 

Same rights: Well, they are people. :/
A couple adopting a kid... I dunno. That would be kind of weird if the kid had to bring his parents to school or something:
Teacher: Hello Tommy, who are these people?
Tommy: This is my daddy, and my daddy.
Teacher: That's...emm... nice.

Gay marriage: I don't think so. I'm not against two men doing whatever they want, but getting physical together is a big no-no in my book.

Government benefits: Like I said, I'm not sure about where you're from, but in North America, big companies are giving millions of dollars to homosexual groups. Companies like Ford, Wal-Mart, etc. If they give so much to that minority group, why not give millions to Jews, or blacks, or Muslims? Do you understand what I mean, now Meowster?

By the way, I checked your profile (Meowster) and it says you're a male. Are you gay, because I remember you saying you had a boyfriend...

I agree that gays should have the same rights as everyone else, BUT if it's equality they want, then they shouldn't be getting special government benefits in certain countries (I'm not sure about where you guys are from, but I think in North America, they're getting sponsored by Ford and other big car companies). 

[/quote author=ManicMatt]
Hey Steel, if sexuality is a choice, that means you could choose to be gay! But it's not a choice for you is it? You couldn't choose to do it because you'd feel ill, which is natural for a heterosexual.
[/quote]
You make it sound like you would. 

So you're saying that most people opposing the gay lifestyle are nazis? :

Fair enough. I just don't know how many people will actually change topics.

And 'grown' for you, means learning to stop getting help from God and becoming an atheist- which is how you've grown.

I would challenge you to find a single argument against homosexuality that doesn't loop back to "because the bible said so."

It's a sick, perverted lifestyle where two men stick stuff up each other's asses and get STDs. That's the main reason why AIDS is spreading (and because of premarital sex/multiple partners).   

In the Bible, the two cities of Sodom and Gomorrah practiced sexually perverted acts like these, and they were burned down by God because the people wouldn't repent. A lot of countries have now legalized gay marriage. Don't you think something like that could happen again?

You're probably dismissing this as "Steel Drummer's bigoted religious point of view", or else getting offended I'd say such a thing.

Well, I have a modern day example of an incident like this.

All of you probably remember Hurricane Katrina. A week before the hurricane hit New Orleans, the city was planning a 'gay pride week', sort of tourist attraction event. Then the hurricane struck. Well, you know the rest of the story.


I don't see why all of you are so adamant on arguing with me. You've heard my views, you've dismissed them, you've seen that I won't change my views, and now you're supposed to let it go and get on with your lives, and off of this subject. I must say I agree with Helm to some degree (not the 14 year old part). You people should just stop trying to defend your atheism/post-modernism/liberalism, I'll stop trying to defend God/Jesus, and we'll let God and "ism's" battle it out on their own, okay? What makes you think someone is 14 if they criticize homosexuality and atheism? 

Why can't this thread be about religious upbringing and not telling yodaman how stupid he's being?

Exactly.                                     

I am all for helping someone see other points of view the exact second he says he's willing to listen. Not when they say 'I am not interested in researching something I condemn'. 

I see yours and everyone else's point of view. The question is, why don't you see mine? As soon as I state my opinion, you (not you specifically, just in general) say 'Fuck that', or 'Fuck God', or 'Go to hell, Christ', or 'You're just a bigoted asshole'. I haven't said anything like that about Allah, or Buddha, or whoever. I would, however say it about the various 'isms', because they don't even believe in any sort of deity. I'd be quicker to criticize a atheist than a Muslim, or a Hindu.

All those demos are gonna be on one album? That's like 71 songs!  :o

I'm fine with the fact you're bisexual. I don't hate you.

And Cameron, blonde hair does define the person. Blondes (females) are stupid bimbos.

The Bible says that the gay lifestyle is wrong. Even if you don't follow the Bible, it doesn't seem natural- I mean, two men sleeping together?

... The true purpose of sex is not gone if you're not marrying that person. You're sharing yourself with a person you love, in the course of your life you can love more than one person, and sex with them will be just as special. And if you wait for sex til after marriage it wont be more joyful, it'll most likely be dissapointing and painful. There are precautions for STDs. The fact that I enjoy pre-marital sex does not mean I'm some kind of slutty guy that runs around having sex with everyone and everything. People can be happy together, have you studied any cases of polygamy? I haven't but I'm sure there will be cases where people are happy, and there will be some that aren't. But why put a stop to those that work? And you're also ruling out gay and lesbian marriages, which I think should also be allowed. You're saying love between anything other than one man and one woman is impossible, I think you're horribly wrong on this point. Swearing does not make me naive, and I apolagise for that swearing, but you frustrate me. Everyone is made in the image of god. God sins? God can be gay, lesbian, bi-sexual? If everyone is a part of his image than there must be those sides to god. God planned out everyones lives according to your religion, so he planned gays. So this "perversion" is god's will.

God didn't plan those people to be the way they are. Their sexuality is by choice. They choose to have surgery to change sexes. I'm tired of hearing Christian bashing, and religion bashing, and an overall contempt for God and other gods, so why not just get back to topic, here. I already said this once before, but maybe you'll listen if I say it again. I, for one, won't participate in this thread until the topic changes, and hopefully that will keep the argument down (everyone was arguing against me, if I remember correctly). I'm not a hypocrite, and as I've said many, many, many, many times before, I don't hate the person, I hate the religion. I accept the fact that others believe differently, I'm trying to change the fact, if you catch my drift.

If Christianity is true, and Jesus really is the only way, then when I die, I'll be up in the clouds mocking you all.

One last thing: If condemning people's beliefs is wrong, then I guess that condemning Hitler is wrong?

Big up de positive vibrations, yo.

You're twisting what I said. People aren't going to happy together if they're living with more than one wife. The wife, especially, wouldn't be happy. A marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. Not three men and one woman, or one man and 6 women.

So you're saying I'm naive because I believe in Christ, and I'm not swearing my head off in every post? I don't think I'm holier than anyone else- everyone sins, everyone is made in the image of God, everyone should be treated equally. I don't care how many people I offend- I'll say it fifty times if I have to- Jesus Christ is the only way to receive eternal life! 

Sorry, the way you say "premarital sex is one thing".... can you tell me what you think is morally wrong about pre-marital sex?

Well, the Bible says it's wrong to do. But if you're like most people who don't follow the Bible:
It can give you STDs, it could get you pregnant- having sex is like sharing your body with someone else, and if you don't marry the person you're having sex with, then the true purpose of sex is gone. Having sex after marriage is more joyful.

And, for the last time- they ate human flesh!

Meowster (and others who think that evangelizing to others is wrong): How can you say that you find it offensive to tell others about God and Jesus, yet you don't mind offending Christians with your "Fuck God" and your "go to hell, Jesus" and your "I don't need Jesus' forgiveness. He didn't die for me. Damn him" nonsense. But when I share my views with you, you act like I'm committing murder. (Most of you probably think that murdering someone isn't that bad, either, just like you think polygamy isn't bad)

I don't really care what you think about my religious views because I'm probably never going to agree with any of you on any religious/social issues. I don't think there's a single person who has posted in this thread that would agree with me about my views on heaven and hell. Or homosexuality.

They ate the flesh of women and children? What? Literally?

No, I was using a metaphor. : Of course they did!

You say that as if it's intended to be shocking. To me it's not shocking, I personally am not interested in polygamy, but if someone is in love with more than one person and they can find a working relationship between the 3 people involved (or more) than why stop them? Also, the Koran states that if more than one wive would cause trouble or unease than the man should stay with just one wife. It's not like polygamy is compulsory.

What's shocking to me is how loose everyone's morals are. Premarital sex is one thing, but now you people are saying polygamy is okay? I shudder to think what would happen if you entered into politics... 

S.D.:

About Islam: I am (officially) an orthodox crhistian and yet I find what you say extremely offensive!

Really, just stop talking abuot Islam. you are taking the 0.00001% of the islamic population and make judgement on that!

what if I told you that the Ko che guy (Viginia killings? 33 of them?) was a christian! How would you feel? What about the crusades and all the stuff that all religions have done over periods of time... You have been greatly misinformed and still try to pass your ill informed views as facts...

Sorry mate, but I just can't except what you say about Islam (or the teaching in scholols part but so many posts already, no need to even mention it furhter)

So you're more offended by it than a Muslim? Like I said before, I don't hate Muslims, I hate their beliefs. Are you offended by that? 

I know that the so called Christians' started the Crusades. Those were started to gain power, not for any religious reasons, and Christians also killed Jews during the Crusades- on top of that, in a certain village they had pillaged, they devoured the flesh of those they had killed (even women and children), so yeah- the crusades were kind of a blow on Christianity.

Steel Drummer,

I know exactly how you feel right now.  You're totally surrounded here by people who don't share your views, and you're trying to defend what you believe is the absolute truth.  (Note the word "believe")

We all have different beliefs.  The difference between you and me is that I don't think you're fundamentally wrong for what you BELIEVE and that you're going to go to some place of eternal punishment and damnation.

I remember trying to "witness" to people on these boards back when I still believed in God and Jesus, and all it did was stir up debate, which is not always a bad thing.  Though I know it upset me far more than it upset anybody else, because I was a fundamentalist Christian, and fundamentalists Christians are put into position, by the very nature of their religion, where it's all or nothing.  I would encourage anybody who has an all or nothing attitude towards ANY idea, philosophy, religion, whatever, to think it through really objectively, and see if there's any holes in the logic anywhere.

I was raised to think independently about everything else EXCEPT religion.  I knew HOW to think for myself, I just never dared to apply that same logic and power of mind to my religion, because it was where I had staked everything, including "eternal life."

I was very defensive because I was afraid of finding those holes, and finding that I was wrong.  But now, I can admit that I was wrong, and I've grown as a person because of it.  (Note:  I said that I was wrong, not you.)

And I could very well be wrong now.  Because we cannot prove the existence of God, a creator, or intelligent life beyond us.  Nor can we disprove it, so I say, to each his own. 

So essentially you're saying I need to 'grow out of myself', and turn my back on God? Look, why doesn't everyone just forget whatever comments I said, and get back to the innuendo that this thread was known for.

If had been born in an Islamic territory, I'd probably be dead by now because of one of the following:
1. I'd have been chosen during childhood to suicide bomb somewhere.
2. I'd have seen the evils of Islam, spoken against them, and been killed.
3. I'd have been sent off to war at a young age, and been

So you are actually saying that everyone who is Islamic is dead?

And once again you choose to ignore my post. Very annoying.

I'm not saying they're all dead, I'm saying that there's a good chance I'd be dead. And people in some Islamic countries are having children more often than in North America (some Islamic countries even allow polygamy). 

1. Fair enough, no problem here.
2. Fari enough no problem here either.
3. What? Huh? How? When?

Okay, maybe not spiritual, but 8/10 posts I've read (in this thread) have held views condemning organized religion and God.

you are showing a great ammount of ignorance. Regarding almost eveyrthing you post. your opinion is your opinion and I have absolutely no problem with it, as all my posts show. But please stop bullshiting in every post you make in this thread. What is this about islam? I have friends from islam and are fantastic people! It's not about liberal mind or whatever (which you probably don't know wtf means really), but it's more about being fair and think for yourself!

I don't have a liberal mind because I don't agree with the postmodern view of 'all religions are equal, and all gods can save you'.

Islam: Islam may have some good aspects in it, but I'm sorry, I just don't agree with killing those who won't convert to Islam (that's what the Koran teaches, believe it or not). I don't hate Islamic people; I'd treat any of them the same as a fellow Christian- but it's their religion I hate. Same with gays. I got the forums in an uproar a while back when I said I hated gays. I don't hate them I hate their lifestyle. There's a major difference there. Islam is a religion built around violence. Constantly being fed the idea that 'If people don't comply with your beliefs and what you tell them to do, rape them, murder them, bomb them, kill them. And above all, kill the Jews.' The main reason I hate Islam is because of their contempt for Jews. Even if some may not kill a Jew personally, they still don't mind when a Jew's life is taken.  EDIT: Ah, Gord10, so that's why your games feature so much blood...

Why can't we all worship one God? If we can't worship the same, true God, then why can't we at least live at peace with one another?

I guess we can't, with Islam's views on other religions.


MrColossal: I don't hate you as a person; you'd probably be a perfectly normal and decent guy if I met you; but I strongly disagree with your views on God and Christianity. Just because I attack your beliefs, doesn't mean I'm attacking you specifically. 

Humans didn't evolve from monkeys, monkeys and humans share a common ancestor millions of years ago.  Get it right.

I don't care about 'getting it right', because I'll never believe that perverted theology anyways. The reason that so many of you believe in evolution is not because of your own free thought, it's because it was taught in schools. You say that I'm not thinking on my own, just because I was born in a Christian nation, but the same can be said of you and evolution.

Well... Yes and no Tongue I kinda phrased it badly. But no, I don't believe in magic. What I meant was that natural phenomenons might have been seen as such.

Maybe if you had worded it better, you and I wouldn't have had that argument.

[Bob Marley]

Let me ask you again, do you agree that if you were born on Islam territory, in an Islamic family, you would be 100% with that religion, as you are now with Christianity?

Take your time.

It is time.

If had been born in an Islamic territory, I'd probably be dead by now because of one of the following:
1. I'd have been chosen during childhood to suicide bomb somewhere.
2. I'd have seen the evils of Islam, spoken against them, and been killed.
3. I'd have been sent off to war at a young age, and been killed.

North America and Europe give so much freedom that we're able to argue back and forth about religion without the government threatening us. 

Where are you from, steel drummer? I'm guessing some kind of middle american state...

I'm from Jamaica.

Long Paragraph about dying

But you never actually explained what you and your lugubriously atheistic colleagues believe about death. 

How about this? Please read this if you're just skipping through this thread, because I think I have a good point. How many people in the world join a religion through their own initiative? I mean, if you took a group of people at birth and locked them in a cage, and told them to think about life, d you think they would be visited by god? Depending on how much you taught them about science, they might think the sun was a conscious entity. A god, if you will. How else could it move in the sky?

But people in Old Testament Bible times actually could have faith in God, and experience him personally. They didn't just listen to what they were told. Those were the people who tried to discover God, and learn about Him.   

Don't tell me you're trying to prove the existance of god through Bob Marley?

And you're trying to disprove God through the notion that humans came from monkeys, and monkeys came from ooze laying around for 100 years. You know, that ooze could have been sperm from God masturbating... That could be how animals were created. No. Never mind. I'm not gonna go there.

Also, you really have no idea how the science works, and that's ok. No one ever taught it to you probably. But if you have no desire to learn then you have no ability to speak on the subject so I'd stop.

"If I was educated, I'd be a damn fool."
-Bob Marley

Anyways, Meowster/Yufster, you wanted to know my point exactly?

I follow God, not evolution.
I believe that Jesus is the only man that is worthy to worship.
The majority of people in this forum hate god, religion and anything spiritual.
(although the statement 'Holy Spirit and Jesus can go to hell' is sort of an oxymoron if you don't believe in hell)


Everything I've written in this thread has been related to those three ideas.

And that's your argument? We know little, so there must be a God?

And your (and just about everyone else's) argument is "We know little, so there is no God."

vict0r: Stop mocking Christ and I'll stop mocking you.

What I believe is the reason for religion is that people did not know what were happening. Different happenings in nature that seemed confusing and unexplainable (maybe even magic) would have screwed with their head to believe that what they saw was over-natural and they would eventually start praying to someone/something for the good things to keep happening and for the tornadoes and stuff to piss off.

You want me to give it to you straight? Why are people so quick to disprove God? I have never heard any of you disprove evolution, or humanism, or scientology, and whatever else there is that doesn't follow a god.
So what do you believe happens after you die, if heaven and hell are a state of mind? 
Seriously, what's the point of reading the Bible if you condemn organized religion, and God, and all that stuff? Why are you reading it?

Jesus did not die for me either. If he did I never asked him to. I also never asked this supposed God to create me. Maybe I was happier not being created. Maybe I was nothing not being created and if I was nothing than I was neither sad or happy so what's the point of creating me?

Jesus died for everyone, whether you wanted Him to or not.

Evolution and natural selection is not random and the only people who say it is are religious people trying to disprove it. You don't understand the science behind it, sorry.

You know what? Before Darwin, and even during Darwin's time, scientists still believed in creation- even those who didn't believe in a particular god.

I have a quote from Bob Marley that really disproves evolution (and I'm paraphrasing it here): 

"If evolution exists, then why aren't monkeys changing into people nowadays?"

Ghormak (regarding your Buddhism comment): Christianity is a way of life too, but people have gotten so legalistic that it's become a 'religion'. 

Tartalo: Catholicism is not really true Christianity. For one, the Roman Empire just took all the old god and goddess worship stuff and put it into a biblical mindset. That's why they're praying to Mary; before the Roman Catholic Church was formed, they prayed to Venus (or any other female goddesses). Catholicism is a really wacked out view of Christianity, to say the least; always revising their theology (most of which is just made up, or else taking the Bible out of context)- recently the new pope said that hell is no longer a state of mind, it's a real place. The Bible already established that fact. 

About the Deuteronomy thing: most of those laws no longer apply any more. That book was included in the Bible to show what the original laws were like (and I think the book you meant was Leviticus, which has the laws). After Jesus came, He introduced a freer, kind of 'religion of love' belief in God. Animal sacrifices were no longer necessary, and people could eat 'unclean' animals. 

Orator:

(I'm not a Buddhist, see. I just thing Buddha's a nice guy. Same as Jesus, really...)

Yes, Buddha probably had some good things going for him, morally, but with any of these 'faith' founders: Mohammed, Gautama, etc.- None of them claimed to be God's son, or even asked to receive worship. The only one who did was Jesus. A lot of people nowadays hate Christianity because of a stereotyped view of the American 'MacJesus' sort of Christianity, but that's not what it's really like. Televangelists are sleazebags.   

One thing that bugs me the most about people (especially on these forums) is not that they follow a different faith than I do- it's when they say that there's not a god of any kind, and they reject any sort of faith- bashing it constantly. 

Just something to note, but if someone talked/preached about God the amount some people in this thread went to bash religion, they'd be shot down in flames for "pushing religion down everyone's throats".

That is incredibly true. It only proves that there is a god, because those who preach Him get bashed, but those who reject Him don't.

steel drummer,

don't tell me that you are honestly trying to prove the existance of god in a forum like AGS..

Yes, and I'm being outnumbered by those who believe in evolution mumbo-jumbo. I'd rather join sides with a Muslim than someone who held the views of MrColossal or Nikolas (or almost anybody here).

What I believe is the reason for religion is that people did not know what were happening. Different happenings in nature that seemed confusing and unexplainable (maybe even magic) would have screwed with their head to believe that what they saw was over-natural and they would eventually start praying to someone/something for the good things to keep happening and for the tornadoes and stuff to piss off.

Haha! Magic??! That's kid's stuff. You seriously are telling me that you are an atheist, yet you believe in magic. 

Your god and holy spirit can go to hell for all I care. Because they all exist in your head! This counts for all gods. No matter who made them up.

So if they don't exist, how can they go to hell?

Vict0r, why don't you go to hell, and then see what you think of God. And while you're at it, read the Bible. Get some answers about life, instead of believing in magic, like something straight out of a Disney film.

So what do you believe? Random creatures evolving from primordial ooze after a random bang that happened in the universe? How could God not exist? Everything in creation is so complex, it couldn't have happened randomly. Scientists have barely even scratched the surface of the human body, let alone anything else. Less than 20% of species have even been discovered yet.

hahaha.


It's so funny that people still believe in god and jesus.

It's so primitive, it really is. It's so unbelievably primitive and silly.

silly people.

I love hearing religious people argue and try to convince people, including themselves, that god is real. You have no idea, being religious and actually believing yourselves... you have no idea how funny and stupid it looks to anybody with half a brain. Anybody with a bit of "cop on" as they say in Ireland...

In this day and age, that people still believe in invisible fairies in the sky is pretty sad.

Yeah... Fairies. Right. It's pretty sad not to believe in a God. Give some reasons why it's so primitive. 

Quote
So you think being overly legalistic is good?

No, because laws are like religion and gods - human products. And humans make mistakes.

Quote
Telling someone that the only way to be saved is through Jesus

Is it? You're saying this as it's a fact. And why? Because the book with the cross says so.

I guess you believe this to be 100% true. Now, imagine you were born on Islam territory. There would be another truth for you and you would swear in it like you do now.

Besides, that's just what I was talking about (forcing it down).

Quote
Opening up a church and letting them in is great, but that doesn't grant them salvation.

No, a steady job and a place to live is their salvation.

It baffles me how quick you people are to reject God and Jesus Christ. Why not reject Allah? Buddha? Shiva? Guru Nanak? 

Jesus did not die for me.
Do not pray for me, I'll be fine.
I was not a product of sin and wasn't born in one so stop using scare tactics on me.

Well, at least blasphemy against Christ is forgivable by Him. But blaspheming the Holy Spirit... that's another issue. All of you- so stiff necked! Why do you all curse in Christ's name? Why not Allah's?

Is it? You're saying this as it's a fact. And why? Because the book with the cross says so.

I guess you believe this to be 100% true. Now, imagine you were born on Islam territory. There would be another truth for you and you would swear in it like you do now.

Islam kills itself off with blatant contradictions. In some places it takes an almost biblical stance on violence, then it says to beat your wife.