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Your argument about the ESRB relies on a normative premise. You say that all content *must* be evaluated. I say they *can't* rate what they can't play (or know about). This is the reason the ESRB missed the "adult scenes" in the first place, no matter how much they may have intended to rate all of the content. Perhaps we should blame the ESRB for misleading all those innocent 17 year olds who believed the rating when they bought the game. Those poor bastards didn't even see it coming.

Actually, the ESRB has specific regulations in place precisely to keep stuff like this from happening.Ã,  That's why Rockstar is being fined (I believe) and having the rating on the game changed.

You're absolutely right that the ESRB cannot rate what they cannot see.Ã,  They are quite aware of this, and that is why one of their regulations is that you cannot "hide" material in your game that would alter its rating.Ã,  If they find out that you did, then your game gets re-rated and you get a big stink raised, much like Rockstar is getting now.

The bottom line is, the addition of explicit sexual content in a software title mandates an Adults-Only rating.Ã,  Like it or not, them's the rules.Ã,  Rockstar put (excuse me... "accidentally left") content in their game that mandated that rating.Ã,  When it was discovered, the rating was changed.

's all there is to it.Ã,  The rating now reflects the content, which is the way it should have been in the first place.

Personally, my big problem with this whole thing is that when confronted with the problem, Rockstar attempted to lie about it and blame the whole thing on "teh haxors" rather than own up to it.Ã,  If something like this had happened at any of the places I'd worked there'd be a few firings goin' on.

Although, given the way communication works, it's quite feasible that the PR folks for Rockstar misunderstood the question, since technically the released version doesn't contain a sex scene.Ã,  They probably jumped the gun.

media: "Hey Rockstar, someone hacked your game and now there's sex in it."

Rockstar PR: "GTA doesn't include any sex.Ã,  We can't control alterations done to our software by a third party."

Rockstar programmers: "Uh oh.Ã,  Everybody hide!"

and no, I don't wear a tie.Ã,  But you keep right on imagining me masturbating if that's what gets ya.Ã, 

Your argument about the ESRB relies on a normative premise. You say that all content *must* be evaluated. I say they *can't* rate what they can't play (or know about). This is the reason the ESRB missed the "adult scenes" in the first place, no matter how much they may have intended to rate all of the content. Perhaps we should blame the ESRB for misleading all those innocent 17 year olds who believed the rating when they bought the game. Those poor bastards didn't even see it coming.

Actually, the ESRB has specific regulations in place precisely to keep stuff like this from happening.Ã,  That's why Rockstar is being fined (I believe) and having the rating on the game changed.

You're absolutely right that the ESRB cannot rate what they cannot see.Ã,  They are quite aware of this, and that is why one of their regulations is that you cannot "hide" material in your game that would alter its rating.Ã,  If they find out that you did, then your game gets re-rated and you get a big stink raised, much like Rockstar is getting now.

The bottom line is, the addition of explicit sexual content in a software title mandates an Adults-Only rating.Ã,  Like it or not, them's the rules.Ã,  Rockstar put (excuse me... "accidentally left") content in their game that mandated that rating.Ã,  When it was discovered, the rating was changed.

's all there is to it.Ã,  The rating now reflects the content, which is the way it should have been in the first place.

Personally, my big problem with this whole thing is that when confronted with the problem, Rockstar attempted to lie about it and blame the whole thing on "teh haxors" rather than own up to it.Ã,  If something like this had happened at any of the places I'd worked there'd be a few firings goin' on.

Although, given the way communication works, it's quite feasible that the PR folks for Rockstar misunderstood the question, since technically the released version doesn't contain a sex scene.  They probably jumped the gun.

media: "Hey Rockstar, someone hacked your game and now there's sex in it."

Rockstar PR: "GTA doesn't include any sex.  We can't control alterations done to our software by a third party."

Rockstar programmers: "Uh oh.  Everybody hide!"

So you're saying that source code is not game content? Technically, the source code ships with every copy of the game (compiled, but it's still there).

Um, no.Ã,  Source code is the uncompiled text files containing the C/C++ code that is turned into binaries during the compilation process.Ã,  You do not submit source code files to the ESRB for the rating process.Ã,  You submit the final game.Ã,  However, one of the regulations of the rating process set by the ESRB is that you cannot "hide" anything in the game in order to skirt the ratings - regardless of how it's unlocked.

That, however, is a matter of semantics.  You can generate source files by decompiling the binary but there are no source files on-disk.  And like I said, compilers throw out comments.  I'd be really surprised if comments were left in the binaries.  There's no need for them to be there.

It would take some work to crack it, but it's still there.

The hot coffee mod is not an unlockable game mode. Finding the hidden content in the game requires a hack. I don't think it's fair to call this content part of the playing experience. I used the Mario example to make a point, not to say that it's likely in an environment of programmer professionalism (there's an oxymoron for you).

Um... I'm a programmer, and I'm quite professional, thanks.

Whatever is on the CD and can potentially be accessable to the consumer, regardless of how it accessed, must be covered by the rating.Ã,  That's how the ESRB works.

Do you mean you present source code to the ESRB and if some programmer for example had left a "//fuck! this routine took a long time" comment OMG EXCPLICIT CONTENT? I'm sure this isn't the case. I'm sure the only content that is judged is that which can be reached without game modification using 3rd party software.

No, you don't have to present source code - but the ESRB rating is supposed to cover ALL content within the game that can possibly be pulled off of the media whether it's easily accessable or not.Ã,  For example, you can't put a hidden "super gore-soaked violence" mode into "Happy Fuzzy Bunny Quest" and then conveniently not tell the ratings board about the code so that HFBQ gets an "E" rating when it should actually get an "M".

It doesn't matter if the explicit content is hidden, unlockable, or what - if it ships with the game, it has to be reflected in the rating.

The Sims got a Teen rating from the ESRB because of nudity, same-sex relationships and implied sexual content.Ã,  It may be different in other countries.

In addition, I'm pretty sure most compilers just completely throw out comments and don't bundle them into the final executable as it would make no sense to do so.  Regardless, every software house I've worked at has operated under a "you never know who might be looking at your code, so be professional in your source file documentation" policy.  The "erotic novel in a Mario game's comments" would never happen to any programmer with half a brain or any desire to keep his job.

'allo 'allo 'allo.

My name's Steve, and I ran across AGS while browsing HotU for neat stuff and finding Larry Vales.  So I downloaded it and dug it.

I'm a professional game programmer by trade, but since our designer's the one who gets to pick what games we work on, I make my own as a hobby.  I'm messing with AGS now to see what I can come up with, and also to improve my Photoshop skillz.

I'm making pretty fast progress... AGS is darn easy to use.  Mucho props to Chris for this program.

Anyhoo, once I get something worth showing, I'll post it for y'all to see it.  Got a cyberpunk game, as well as a horror game, kickin' around in the works.

Best,
Steve