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I would play it if it's fun.

Pablo's right.  If you're making a freeware game, the only person you need to satisfy is yourself.  If you enjoy making the game then it's a game worth making.  If you're making a commercial game, then it might be worth it to gauge the gamers' interest.  Just make the game you want to make.

On a side note not only directed at this thread but at several recent threads: since when did the "Adventure-related talk and chat" forum become "Pitch your idea for a vaguely adventurish game" forum?  If you're looking for feedback on a game idea, you can post it in the Critics lounge.  If you're making the game and looking for positive reinforcement, work on it until you're sure that it's something you're going to finish and have a significant amount done, and then make a post in the games in production.  The world will be a happier place as a result!   

What scotch said.

Still, I had no idea that this was in a printed magazine, too.  Very cool.  Thanks for the heads up, R4L!

I'm glad you're taking all the feedback to heart!  About combining the two hand icons into one, I know it will require a little work to fix the icon bar, but I really think that would go a long way to making the interface intuitive and comfortable.

And Mash Potato had a great point about the cutscenes.  Rather than adding a text to the bottom, I agree with her suggestion of changing it so that you can only skip it with the ESC button, or at most any keyboard button.  It's a very fast fix.  In the code:

PlayVideo (string filename, int skip, int flags)

You've probably got 3 for the skip argument.  Just change it to 1 or 2.

And I really liked the way Guiseppe's dialogue branched.  It felt natural like a real conversation and I realize that all the branches lead to the same place, but it still felt like I had some impact on the conversation.  Some adventure gamers will be thrown by this though because they're used to exhausting all conversation branches methodically to make sure they don't miss anything.  I like this better, personally.

But I agree that if I talked to him later, it would be nice if he had something more to say other than "Don't forget what I've told you."  At the least, it would be nice if he reminded me of what he told me.  Or maybe had a couple more responses so it wasn't so clear that he's just a pre-scripted character in a computer game!

Oh, also, I forgot to say how awesome the music was!

... so give them some...

auriond, really nice looking demo here.  The art and music are both excellent and I'm looking forward to see more of the story.  I'm definitely feeling the Silent Hill influence and LimpingFish was spot on with the Cing comparison.  It's looking very nice, and I can't wait to see the final product.

I had just a few concerns, but they're things that I think can be cleared up pretty easily.  I studied and worked in useability, so some things always jump out to me about many games that might not be apparent to others that could easily be fixed and would greatly improve the user (player) experience.  So, take this as constructive criticism.

1) I agree with Rui about the text.  The issue is, if I have a look or interact cursor and I click, I expect that to look or interact, respectively.  But if there's text on the screen and I click, it's clicking through the text, not looking or interacting.  A simple change to an hourglass (or something) cursor would fix this.  I don't think that his second suggestion would jive with this kind of game.  But this is a very minor issue.

2) The foot cursor (for turning around and exiting) looks too much like the hand cursor.  So much, in fact, that I didn't know that I could turn around in the rooms because I didn't notice the cursor change.  If this changes to an arrow pointing left/right appropriately, this would be just a little more smooth, and would definitely help that situation.

3) When right-clicking to cycle through the cursor modes (which I usually do because I don't like to have to move my cursor all the way across the screen to change modes) I expect it to cycle in the same order as the cursors appear in the menu.  Having it jump around out of order is really confusing and should definitely be changed.

4) The cursors for interact and pick-up are very similar and not very well defined.  I got them confused a lot and had to cycle between them in a "whoops, not that one" fashion many times.  In fact, I'm not sure why they are separate cursors.  There's no real reason to have two separate cursors when they'll never have two separate meaningful effects on one item.  If you "Interact" with your notebook in your car it says "I have to pick it up before I can use it."  But clearly, I meant to take the thing.  If I "pick up" the lock panel on the door, it says "I can't budge it." But really, I was just interpreting it as "click the hand cursor on it to use it."  Plus, the "pick up" cursor is rarely used and results in lots of messages that kind of break the mood, like "Pick up the book case? ... Not."

Making the two even more interchangeable, you can use either interact or pick up to walk through a door...

Personally, I'd combine the two into one hand icon that interacts with things that are interactable, picks up things (with some "I think I'll take this" message) that are pick-uppable, and gives a "I should probably just leave that alone" kind of message when it can't do anything.  It would go a long ways towards stream-lining the game's interactions and making the gameplay feel less separated from the player's intentions.

5) The way the inventory works is a great idea, but as it's implemented is a little flawed.  When you open the inventory, it defaults to the arrow cursor to allow you to select an active inventory item.  This is good.  But one thing that always bothers me about this type of inventory system is that I've suddenly lost the ability to right-click to change cursor modes.  Instead, right clicking has suddenly been redefined as look at.  But in the interface framework of the rest of the game, this does not make sense.  Even if I can now potentially look at something in one click in stead of two, consistency should be protected.  Right clicking here should cycle between the eye and the arrow cursors.

Now, when I click with the eye cursor on an inventory, it brings up the larger inventory picture.  Here, I can use the eye again to examine, or the hand to look at the other side (or, I presume, do other things with other inventory items).  Still, here, right clicking should cycle between the eye and hand.  It's a little strange, conceptually, to use the eye both here and on the main inventory but have it do different things, but I'm not terribly concerned about that. 

I am concerned, however, that clicking the close button with the hand cursor, maintains the hand cursor when it switches back to the main inventory GUI.  This cursor is meaningless here, and yet, it acts the same as the arrow cursor.  When you switch between the main inventory and inventory close up GUIs, you need to constrain the cursor modes to only the proper modes: eye and arrow on inventory (or an inventory item cursor) and eye and hand on the inventory close up.

If you implement the inventory like this, I think you'll find that it's much more intuitive to use and navigate because it maintains consistency with the rest of the game.

6) There are no parts of the game in the demo where you have to use an inventory item (though it would be nice if Guiseppe would comment on the items if I try to give them to him) so it's not clear if this will be a big issue yet, but as you have it, it is not clear where the inventory item cursor's hotspot is.  When my cursor is an inventory item, it might be nice to have a little arrow in the top left corner so that I know what I'm pointing at.

7) Also, still harping on inventory here, why is the close button on the inventory close-up GUI where it is?  I think it would look a lot nicer if it were a nice button down on the bottom bar like the OK button on the main GUI.

8 ) When you click on something (not in the inventory, in a room) to get a close up, like the photo on the desk or the mannequin in the studio, you can back up by clicking on the edges of the screen where ever the foot cursor shows up, but I think that since, conceptually, backing away from looking at something up close is different from turning around this could use a different cursor, or even better, a button on the lower-right corner of the screen that says "back."  However, if you change the turning cursors to arrows (as per my #2) and leave this one a foot, that could be ok.  This is not a major issue.

9) (Thought of this one while typing the last one  ) To get a closeup of the photo on the shelf, you use the eye cursor or the interact cursor, while getting a closeup of the TV or mannequin requires the interact cursor.  Conceptually, it seems that the eye cursor should work for the TV and mannequin as well.  Once zoomed in, another click of the eye cursor would give a description.  This would also work in line with how the inventory system works: one click of the eye gives a closeup, a second gives a description.  Again, consistency makes your game play much more intuitively and will help the player be engrossed in the game without being distracted by the the interface.

OK, that's it.  I hope it didn't sound too harsh, because I didn't mean it to be.  I'm just pointing out a few little useability niggles that can hopefully be ironed out without too much trouble and will help the game feel very smooth to the player.  The game already looks and feels really great.  I think with just a few easy tweaks, it could play even better.  I really can't wait to see the final product.  Good luck!

Whoops, thanks, I totally missed MMD.  Added it to the list.  And, while it isn't an AGS game, Darkside Adventures being on there is awesome, too!  Congrat's Bernie!

[Brain Benders]

1up just put up an article called 101 Free Games - The Best Games That Money Can't Buy which is notable not only for the many awesome free games it links to, but also because it includes many AGS games.  Unfortunately, (or fortunately, depending on your server) they put all the games on FileFront rather than linking them to the creator's website.

I'll list the AGS games that they mentioned so that you don't have to close a giant HALO flash ad that covers the page everytime you try to change pages.   

Here they are with the categories they listed them in: (I hope I didn't miss any in there)

Brain Benders

-What Linus Bruckman Sees When His Eyes Are Closed

Can the name of this game be any longer? This crazy-good adventure game is just plain crazy. The top half of the screen follows a samurai in feudal Japan; a spacey comedy graphic adventure unfolds in the bottom. Your brain will hurt, so factor in the cost of aspirin.

Adventurer's Island

-Ben Jordan: Paranormal Investigator

College grad Ben Jordan turns to the paranormal to earn a buck in this Sierra-style graphic adventure. His first mission: discover the secret of the Skunk-Ape, a Bigfoot that got its name "because of its horrible smell, described as a mixture of moldy cheese, rotten eggs, and dung." Yum.

-Chicken vs. Road

Clucksworth is finally ready to see the world. The only thing in his way: the road. This goofy but short graphic adventure will make you laugh -- and probably hum "Raindrops Keep Fallin' on My Head" for days.

-Heartland Deluxe

Good writing plus some hand-drawn illustrations equals a great adventure game. If only it weren't so damn short.

-No-Action Jackson

No-Action Jackson instantly recalls Day of the Tentacle, and its hero is someone we can actually relate to: a meek kid who still lives with mom and dreams of reliving his days as a feared dungeon master.

Tributes and Remakes

-King's Quest III

The latest Sierra fan tribute: A 256-color remake of Roberta Williams' King's Quest III: To Heir is Human. The story centers on a medieval slave named Gwydion who frantically seeks to escape the evil wizard who lords over him. This new version implements a point-and-click interface identical to Sierra's later graphic adventures, as well as full voice acting and some quirky new bits of humor. And if you missed 'em, check out the KQ1 and KQ2 remakes at www.agdinteractive.com.

-Maniac Mansion Deluxe

Remember the salad days of PC gaming, when there were graphic adventures as far as the eye could see, and LucasArts actually did something besides churn out Star Wars stuff? A group of devoted fans remembers, too, and have remade one of the greatest (and funniest) games ever made.

Yay!  Glad to see this underway.  I hope CJ will put a little notification on the top of the page so people like me whose eyes skip right over the stickied threads will be sure to notice.

Also, for some reason I thought the innovation award was to be an open nomination with a committee final selection.  I'm not sure where (or if) I read this, but I take it that this is not the case.

I'm looking forward to taking the time to compile my nominations tomorrow!

Who said anything about 30,000 copies?

If they were making crappy puzzle games that could be more easily sold in the casual old-lady market, it would defeat the point of what I was talking about in my post.  These developers are making games that they enjoy making.  I'm not sure why they couldn't make some decent supplementary income off of them.  I'm not sure where you pulled the number 30,000 out of, but it's completely unnecessary.  Maybe it is if you're selling a small casual game that's being licensed to various sites around the net and being sold as part of subscription services where you're earning back pennies for each sale, but take for example the Blackwell Legacy:  $15 * 30,000 copies sold = $450,000.  Hell, if he could make that much he'd probably be making his next game from the comfort of his tropical island bungalow.  At $15, if he can manage to sell even 1000 copies in the first year and continues selling 200 copies in each following year (which I recognize is still a difficult goal), he's made some significant money.  Of course some of that goes to bandwidth and paying his team members, but still, if he puts out a new game every six months, he's got enough to help him avoid a nine-to-five job.  Maybe even enough to avoid a real job all together.

Binky, I'm not sure exactly what you're arguing.  It sounds like you're suggesting that it's somehow more noble to thinking that a high download count is more important than the chance at some small profit, but a high download count isn't the only worthwhile pursuit for a developer.

You have to remember that some people are making games for different reasons than the adoration of the masses.  I can't speak for Dave, Herculean, Himalaya, or GhostLady, but I'd imagine that the reason behind some of these commercial games is a love for game making.  If a developer loves making games, then it's understandable that they'd want to continue doing it, and spend as much time as they can on it.  Unfortunately, the real world has certain expectations of a person such as money.  A guy can't survive purely on the enjoyment of his hobby.

If selling his games allows him to bypass the need for a job, or at least supplements his income enough that he can get by with a part time job, he'd probably think that sacrificing the number of players who played the game was completely worth it.  As an added bonus for everyone else, that game maker can now afford to spend more time on each game which generally raises the quality of the games.  Everyone wins.

As for the amount of money the developer is going to make, please remember that the income doesn't just come from one game.  Internet shelf space is unlimited, so when this developer is selling his fifth game, the first one is still bringing in money as well.  And every new game allows a few new people to discover your talent and drives them to your previous games.

As long as the game is of a quality that makes it stand out from the abundance of freeware games out there, there is a chance to make a little money.  Should we begrudge the developer who chooses that over a high download count?

What exactly is the problem?  The games page download link points to the game's homepage:

http://www.endrewzgamez.h16.ru/Page2_8.htm

and on that page is a link that allows you to download the game.  It works fine for me, though I can't post the direct link here because it seems to block linking from external sites.  Just go to the game's homepage and scroll down until you see the download link.

Apparently, having a really long title can be a hook.  It got WLBSWHEAC mentioned on GameSetWatch, which is pretty cool, at least to me...

Innovation is also a hook, apparently, because Linus just got mentioned for the second time on GameSetWatch.  Though this time it was largely because of my promoting the game on a smaller blog.  I'm just happy someone took notice!

When the contest officially starts (which, by the way, I'd also be willing to oversee if people are set on doing it this week) you would make a game in a week. 

That's it.  That's all the rules.

It's still called "One room one week" but it would be more accurately called "One game one week."  The one room rule was originally there to help people keep their designs small so that they could actually finish it in one week, but it's been done away with.

Then at the end of the week, you would email your finished game to whomever is organizing the contest and they would release them all at once.  This is to try and keep the games anonymous so that people wouldn't be voting just for their friends (which doesn't seem to ever have actually been a problem, but still it's a good practice).

However, no one has started the contest yet, so don't start making a game yet.

Sounds fun!  I'm checking...

Anna had only 55 lines in the global script.  I put pretty much all the code in the room file.  It uses only one room, but that room includes 4866 lines of code.

Spooks' global script ran 1462 lines with the average room ranging from 50 to 200 lines.

Linus Bruckman has 7104 lines in the global script with very little code in the room files.

Yoda, everybody's on the same side here.   We all want AGS games to get the attention they diserve.  There isn't like some conspiracy in which some people's games are getting sidelined. 

Don't complain here about it, take a proactive stance.  Post in some other message boards about a game you like.  Send an email to a website that might want to review it.  The worst that could happen is that they could not respond.  This thread isn't helping anyone.

Actually, with Spooks, acting as the game's publisher, I sent emails to various adventure game sites telling them about the game in hopes that they would post a news post or a review about the game.  Did Mordalles try the same things with Mordy 2?

We're a small niche community.  Not a whole lot of people outside of our community are interested in what we do here, or it at least takes some convincing to make them interested.  If you want more publicity for a certain game, then publicize it.  Complaining about it in this forum isn't going to do much good.

Matt posted faster than me, but:

Sounds go in the sound folder, not the music folder.

Beginner's technical questions go in the Beginner's technical questions board, not the Adventure-related talk and chat board.

Also, start checking the dates on the threads that you're posting in.  I know you were trying to do a noble thing here but I don't think many people were going to click on that link seeing how the thread has been dead for over two years.  And that was the second long-dead thread you've dug up today.  Just make sure it's justified before you do it.

Happy Birthday SSH!  Even though you haven't been around for several days...

[What Linus Bruckman Sees When His Eyes Are Closed]

I was wondering about this.  SSH has been MIA for a few days.

Anywho... I'll join.

I'd like to shamelessly submit for your consideration:

What Linus Bruckman Sees When His Eyes Are Closed

for

• Best programming - It took a great amount of creative coding to create two games that were played simultaneously.  Also, the bug-free release was helps.
• Best music - Nikolas achieved something really impressive with his music for this game.  He created two theme songs, one for each of the two halves of this game, that each convey a completely different mood and sound, but could also be played simultaneously and sound like one cohesive piece.  Download the soundtrack and see for yourself!  Hats off to Nik!
• Best documentation - The game was accompanied by an interactive manual and after completing the game, you would receive a code to go online and add your name to the Hall of Completion.  To my knowledge, this is a first for an AGS game.
• Most innovative use of AGS - It's definitely a unique experience.  Andventure Gamers seemed to think the game was quite innovative.
• Anything else you might find appropriate

Dave, I loved the game.  Completed it in one sitting while I was chained to a hospital bed.  Apparently, it wasn't too hard (or illogical)  because I was able to complete it while on some major pain killers!  The thing that impressed me the most about the game was the amount of polish it showed.  I caught a few bugs (which I'll note below) but the graphics, music, speech, writing, and puzzles were all of a quality above every other AGS game that came out this year.  The high level of quality made the game easily stand out among this community of freeware games, which definitely justifies the price tag.  Congratulations.  I'm looking forward to the next one.

(I'll have a full review on my blog sometime soon)

Here are a few bugs that I can remember:

Spoiler

-After using the phone in Kelly's room and waiting until Rosa hangs up, Kelly says something, but the wrong speech file plays.
-It is possible, after turning "Alexander" into "Alexander Davenport" in the notebook, to get another "Alexander" by examining the doodle again.
-Talking to Alli in the dog park about "Deacon and Ouija" repeatedly makes Joey walk further and further away.  Not a serious bug, but it's funny when he's walked as far as he possibly can and is yelling to Alli from the opposite corner of the screen. 

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