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but that's his decision and I find all the bitching and moaning in this thread rather childish.

There's no bitching. People are saying they want to download it, Alkis is saying no, so people are saying they won't buy it. I think you'll find it's more a case of trying to persuade them but they're not willing to accept it. Also the fact Alkis is getting stressed that we're debating the download issue is more childish than the rest of us who are merely suggesting it.

{SNIPPED}

I just don't quite get your "hard copies only" logic which I'd be glad to have a better explanation of, tis all

I never offered a full explanation because I didn't want people to accuse me of what you are exactly accusing me now: that I'm somehow trying to persuade them to buy my game. I don't see how calling me childish and throwing accusations is helping your argument. You're insulting me because of something someone else said, is that fair in your opinion?

I'm offering a product. You are the potential customer, you have the power to buy or ignore. I'm not going to try and persuade anyone. If people say they don't want to buy it unless there's a download option, I totally respect that. I do have my reasons for going with that option, but ask yourself, do you honestly care to hear them?

Do you want to hear about budget exceeds? As I don't have the technical knowledge to do a hack proof pay-to-download web site, I'd have to hire someone to do it for me.

Do you want to hear about me not being able to decide what the price difference between the boxed product and the digital product should be? Tube just told Dave that he thought the price difference of his game was too great (for the record, I think the soundtrack CD totally justified it).

Do you want to hear about me being unsure on how many boxed products I should order if both options were offered as I didn't want to be left with too many unsold boxes? Do you want me to tell you the price difference between ordering 100, 1000 or 10,000 copies in a factory?

Do you even want me to get started on how many months it took me to get the necessary legal papers for a sell-by-mail business, and how many more it would take me to get the formalities for digital sales over with?

I could go on and on... but my personal experience is that people don't want to hear any of these things, and why should they? They just want to play games, not be bored with my problems. This reminds me of a dreadful discussion I had in another forum, where people demanded to know why I wouldn't correct Jason's walking animation. So I took the time to explain to them what that would mean in production costs. You know what they said to me? "What do we care? If you don't have enough money, it's your problem. You're boring us. Go away".

Telling us your game has gone to press is a discussion for AGS chat, not the completed games forum.

I already said I was wrong about that. Do I have to kneel and beg everyone's pardon? This is a "completed games" forum, my game was completed, so I posted. If I was wrong, a moderator could correct me.

And I'm not "getting stressed that we're debating the download issue". I just thought it would be nice if people wanted to talk about the game itself, as in ask questions about what in my opinion makes the game good, what are its main features, how it is different and how it is similar to Other Worlds, that sort of stuff. You know, concentrate on what we have rather than what it would be nice to have. This discussion is no more helpful than a "why isn't DITR in full 3D" debate.

Somebody needs to explain to me what I am doing wrong in this forum, I don't post that often but whenever I do there seems to be a finger pointing at me.

To answer cosmicr's question, here is a (small size) sample of the cover:



To the next posters: If you are going to add yet another accusatory post, at least please take the time to explain what I did to provoke it.

It's OK. Perhaps I was wrong to post this thread before release, but it's customary to announce when a game goes gold and I thought it would be rude to say it in every other forum but this one. It's just that in AGS, a "Completed Game Announcement" and a "Released Game Announcement" is almost always one and the same, which was not the case with DITR.

[too much]

I'm almost concerned that you're giving away too much in the demo with the main character's long exposition, however.

Trust me, I reveal much less than you think.

The introduction is indeed kind of long, but necessary because I want the player to get in the 'mood' of the story and learn the basics quite early. It is not indicative of the length of all the dialogs in the game, in fact the only long dialogs in DITR are in the introduction and the ending.

Regarding the box/download issue, I'm going to say this last thing and then I hope we can drop the subject now that both sides have presented their arguments. I don't think anyone who buys the DVD will regret it. Granted, it's no Infocom package with a map, a comic book and a T-shirt, but what is, these days? Hopefully it will make a nice souvenir that you can show your friends a few years from today saying something like "This was Polyrakis' first commercial game, before he became famous" or "This was Polyrakis' only commercial game. The dumb bastard thought he was going to make money out of it and went bankrupt. He jumped off a building as he couldn't afford a gun, which gave it some value after all. It's currently going for $1300 on eBay".

Some fair, honest & hard questions Snarky. I'll do my best to answer them.

Let me start by saying that although we're certainly not a well-established company yet, Atropos Studios is much more than "some guy on the AGS Forum". You have every reason to believe that it's just a web site and a PC, but I'd like you to know that we do have an office in Athens, and all the paperwork and other bureaucratic necessities are as legitimate as that of every other company. All the people who worked on the game signed contracts (Nikolas can confirm that). Our address, phone number and tax information will be clearly stated in the invoices.

As you know, your private data is protected by law. If we mishandle a customer's private data, we will suffer the consequences. Sure, people may not sue but it's about the worst negative publicity I can think of. Yes I admit I'm human and I have taken part in Internet fights as much as the next guy, but I'm not stupid. I have no intention of committing professional suicide by sending a dead hamster to a dissatisfied customer, tempting as the idea might be.

You say that my game is not in your "must buy" list. Well, I'd be very surprised if it was at this early stage. After a month or two, reviews will be published and people will give feedback in forums. Your and everyone else's decision will be much easier then.

The DVD cover was designed by a professional. It will be printed in a factory, and so will the CD. It is certainly not a burned CD with a sticker.

Let me make it clear that I did not write any of the above to change your mind or to convince you to buy my game. I'm merely replying to your questions for you and anyone else who cares to know.

Thank you for your wishes.

Yes the thread has gone rather off topic.

EDIT - Hang on, I must be misunderstanding something.

Goes gold? How can it go gold if it doesn't, commercially, exist, yet?

It's an expression. When we say that a program "goes gold", it means that it is finished being made and it is sent to be mass-produced and packaged. Don't confuse it with platinum records or that sort of stuff.

There is no need for an explanation, everyone has the right to select what they buy and how they buy it. No worries!

Director's cut! It's too soon to talk about such a possibility, especially considering that the 'director' (me) will be sleeping 16 hours per day for the next month to make up for all those all-nighters. To be honest, there are no such plans, although we will seriously considering releasing the soundtrack as the music quality is exceptional.

That's a weird thing to say, why wouldn't the CD be shipped to Brunei? Have you had trouble with your post office in the past? And of course I know where it is, I've never been there but I've been as close as Singapore.

[Dualnames]

I see your point Rui, I just thought that the particular rule does not apply to commercial games that are sold in boxes. Otherwise I'll never be able to post in the "Completed Games" section.

Forgive me if I sound cranky, but you see, you got my hopes up with this thread, and then you dashed them, because I am really looking forward for this game...

No worries, it's only a matter of days now.

Dualnames, I'm not sure what you mean by 'deluxe version'. 

[EDIT: The game is out, my friends. Go to our web site if you wish to order it.]

EDIT: The game is out, my friends. Go to our web site if you wish to order it.

Dear friends,

I'm happy to announce that the making of our game is over. The production of the CDs has started and before long the program will be available for sale from our web page.

Diamonds in the Rough is a 'traditional', 3rd person point & click commercial adventure game.

You play the role of a 20 year old American called Jason Hart. Jason is a high school dropout who works as an office boy. All that is about to change in the beginning of our story, when he is approached by a mysterious man who seems to know more about him than Jason does himself.

The man claims to represent an organization that recruits people who are believed to have "special abilities". Those abilities could be telepathy, telekinesis, or other extraordinary powers. Jason has had such an ability all his life, fearing to admit it to himself, let alone others. He accepts the job offer for this organization, which is called "Diamonds in the Rough".

The story begins as soon as Jason moves to a town in the Midwest, where he will be employed doing this mysterious "work". He will soon start to wonder who he is really working for, and what the purpose of the organization is.



I'd like to thank Chris Jones, all my associates as well as everyone who believed in me, especially those of you who helped me with AGS scripting. Never forget that this is a title made by a gamer for gamers.

Tell me 5 games that are original. And I'll hand it to you!

I don't know about you, but I can think of ONE...

I would play this game. I just wouldn't dare creating it! If you do it, you're a braver person than I am.

If you are prepared to do a lot of research and offer some not-so-well-known details about the country in question, avoid the stereotypes and the black-or-white (ie evil or benign) characters, I think you may be on to something here.

I guess this kind of post is frowned upon, but I don't know what else to do. If a moderator knows the answer to my question, please PM me and delete this topic.

Ashen (aka Nik) was a very active member in the AGS forum, and a moderator of the 'Beginners' section. He was also a beta tester of my game, and a very helpful associate thanks to his knowledge in AGS. All that until the day he disappeared! I see in his profile that he hasn't accessed the forum for more than two months, and he won't reply to my e-mails. Does anyone know if he's all right? I want his address so that I can send him a free copy of DITR as it's about to be released, but I have no way of contacting him.

There already is!

http://www.atropos-studios.com/demo.html

I have no problem replying to your question in public.

Ever since I started this, I've been doing things the way I've always liked them to be in the gaming world: 3rd person game, multiple cursors, challenging inventory puzzles etc. The same thing goes for distribution. I like my games to be in a proper box, or DVD case at least, so that's what I'm doing for Diamonds in the Rough. My opinion is that the shipping expenses are not considerable and people will appreciate it. I don't want to sell an 'invisible' product, and I certainly don't want to bug people with DRM or other security constraints. Digital distribution may be the future, but I don't think it's the present yet. Most people are used to getting something solid when they pay for it. All in my opinion of course, we'll have to wait and see whether I'm right or wrong.

Good luck with your project Vince, I remember that your comments after playing the DITR demo were more than helpful.

It is not a matter of size. It's just our choice.

Are you going to sell it through your website?

Yes we will, in a proper DVD box, not downloadable. Details will follow soon (in the Completed Games section).

Thank you for your comments.

I will not lie to you; the animations have been slightly improved since the demo, but the final result is not ideal.

I do however believe that the other aspects of the game are 100% professional and will compensate for that flaw. I'm talking about the story, the dialogs, the voice acting, the puzzles, the lack of bugs, the overall feeling of the game.

I also dare anyone to compare the music quality in Diamonds in the Rough to the one of any computer game under the sun. I have no idea what the hell is Nikolas doing working with us instead of a major Hollywood studio, but I will not question our luck.

Overall, I'm very satisfied and rather proud of the final product. It came out exactly as I had imagined it and in my opinion it is a very good pure adventure game. I can't guarantee that it will appeal to everyone (does such a game even exist?) but I'm confident that anyone who enjoyed Other Worlds will also like DITR.

I'm happy to announce that our game is almost complete. It is currently in the last testing stages, and it is expected to be released in March.

In the meantime, Atropos Studios in association with the popular web site of your beloved genre, Just Adventure, is offering three complimentary copies of the game. More information can be found in this web page.

Well maybe it's because I first downloaded AGS like 8 years ago, and it was already a fully working engine! I imagined you'd be at least in your mid-thirties.

Respect.

I had no idea CJ was so young!  :o