Messages

For the purposes of this argument, a person that doesn't fulfull the criteria for entering a FIFA-sanctioned match but once did (like Valentino in bodybuilding) might not be an active professional football player, but is a retired football player. That was my argument, and it remains.

For this analogy to be parallel, your ex-FIFA competitor would be a paraplegic. Athletes can return to the sport after retiring, unlike Valentino's case.

You seem to be splitting hairs just to find a way to justify your original assertion. Sure some IFBB bodybuilders appear freakish in their competition photos. Valentino, however freakish he may look, is not in this category. It's like looking at a wigger food court gangsta and calling all hip hop artists ugly. Please understand this fallacy.

...Valentino's not really that useful to my argument...

Is this the closest you will get to admitting you were wrong?

...the human body becomes like that of the bodybuilder through not only training and dieting, but injecting stuff into you. 

This statement is false. I would hope these documentaries had the integrity not to make a point like this. There are plenty of drug-free bodybuilders (Skip La Cour, for instance). Even with drugs, it takes lots of work to build a similar physique. 

Second thing you should know: in a competition, a bodybuilder can look like he does in the photos for maybe a few days max. By the time he hits the stage, he's so dehydrated and underweight (generally lost about 40 pounds or so in a short amount of time before a competition).

To make another music analogy, it's not like Gene Simmons wears face paint to the grocery store.

I can't pretend they're athletes, as for all their rigorious excercise and dieting in the end what they do is stand, flex and smile

Again, I'll avoid arguing over the opinion portions of your statements. Just...credibility...ethos. Think about your own athletic achievements before you belittle other's.

I go by 'Helm' in this forum, not Telemachus. What you did then, implies some sort of familiarity there between the two of us that calls for the omission of this decorum, where there is none.

Ok, I apologize. I'm used to a social environment where acquaintances call me by my Christian name, so this is unusual to me. I did not know that its use is exclusive to your immediate family. This is the first time you've corrected that, so in my defense, I couldn't have known. It was still a blunder, so I hope you can see past this transgression.

As I said, go ahead and post bodybuilders who are bodybuilders, and probably I'll feel grossed out too. If Valentino is the 'Linkin Park' equivallent to my metal, then show me the 'Iron Maiden' equivallent to my metal and let's discuss this perfect-looking man.

Why? You have very entrenched views. It'd be like taking trailer trash to the Museum of Modern Art. Hearing "my kid could draw that" is not going to be very fulfilling for me.

Just because I don't compete does not nullify the activity that I've been doing. You might not be able to call Valentino a competitive or professional bodybuilder, however, regardless of steroids he is a bodybuilder.

Where did I say steroid use disqualified him? I'm saying he's not a bodybuilder, not just because he doesn't compete,  but he couldn't EVEN IF HE WANTED TO. This is the main difference between your soccer analogy. With his synthol augmentation, he literally cannot enter recognized IFBB (like FIFA is to soccer) competition. It's like being wheelchair bound and trying to enter the track and field in the traditional summer Olympics.

In addition, dieting is a bigger part of bodybuilding than weight training is, something that differentiates it from powerlifting or recreational lifting. Body fat percentage wise, Valentino is nowhere close to where he'd need to be for bodybuilding.

You chose to not include certain people into the bodybuilding club, those that use steroids I guess, and how where I to know that were the 'house rules' about bodybuilding for you?

When did I say he was disqualified due to steroid use??? House rules? I was talking about regulations from the sport's governing body. I'm using that as the absolute definition, because otherwise it'd be pointless arguing, since every definition would be subjective and it would boil down to a difference of opinion, "agree to disagree" and rainbows and kittens.

Two different documentaries I've seen about this grotesque, mainly american passtime said that a majority of professional bodybuilders use steroids.

A majority of NFL, MLB, cycling, and Olympic athletes use anabolic steroids. It's difficult to test for, especially when minimal cycles are needed for results. Not really sure how this is relevant.

If the judges or scientists participate in bodybuilding, then yes.

So they must participate to become a "product of their environment"? Only by their volition it affects them? This line of reasoning leads to some interesting ramifications.

I think bodybuilding in moderation has definite benefits. As with most things, moderation is the key word.

Because not every bodybuilder uses anabolics or human growth hormone but they all lift, we can list all of those benefits (increased testosterone production, sex drive, and metabolism, higher self esteem, slowed aging)  without having to mention negative side effects from prolonged drug use. Being able to eat pizza and drink beer without losing a six pack in exchange for 3 hours of work per week seems like a good trade to me.

To argue about being snide, seems moot when you call him Telemachus.

It's his name. The one his parents gave him in the real off-line world. If I called him "buddy" or "pal" then I could see how that's snide. "Chief" has a nice ring to it also.

I don't think he was challenging things for the sake of being fractious, I think he was challenging because he was actually correct through his definition. Just as you are correct through your definition. And he's arguing for the same reason you're arguing, because he thinks he's correct, and gosh darn it, it's also fun.

Here's a hyperbole: if I defined the earth as flat, I could make some astounding postulations about modern physics. Ultimately, I too would be CORRECT through my definition. Despite that feel-good phrase, no scientist would take me seriously.

Once again, credibility....ethos, etc.

Continuing the metal analogy, say I assert that The Doobie Brothers are an example of metal, since they were infamous for performing rock concerts at very loud volumes. Say someone with some music knowledge disagrees, then I resort to the "aggressive and heavily amplified rock music" part of the definition of "heavy metal" from the prestigious dictionary.com. By that definition, I am correct. (For this example to parallel Helm's case, I would have to have never attended a concert, and not used an outside source for the definition.)

I would be posting out of ignorance, right?

Easy man, easy!Ã, 

Roid rage....err, short fuse. It's a white guy thing.

Bodybuilding for me is an expression of pathological narcissism (LET'S GET BIG! LET'S PUMP IRON WOO!) and has no redeeming factors.

I'm not saying that isn't an "opinion". It's just not a very credible one. In fact, it might be just as stupid if I were to to pronounce metal as music for insecure cavemen. To go one step further and say "it has no redeeming factors" is fairly ridiculous to say without knowledge of the subject.

I understand the context of your original posts, it's this one:

Gregg Valentino isn't a bodybuilder, Big Brother?

that seemed snide, less of an actual question and more of a correction. If you don't care whether or not he's a bodybuilder, why did you EVEN ASK ME???

Bodybuilding is almost as pointless an activity as masturbation. And less fun.

Is that why you stopped competing, Limpingfish?

Why do either of you argue?

I have a small degree of knowledge or experience in certain areas. When these are being discussed, I will usually care enough to argue.

You're both very picky about your own subjects and must be absolutely correct about it, and can't admit when you're wrong, so both of you, agree to disagree!

What is this hippy bullshit?
Agree to disagree is a resolution for an opinion, not for something factual.

*slaps you both about for a bit*   

Hah.

Hahahahahhahahahahahahahhaha.

So if some kid kicks a soccer ball, he's automatically a footballer and lumped in the same category as David Beckham?

Do you call IFBB judges "bodybuilders", since they too are products of the environment? How about the scientists that synthesize the supplements? Are they bodybuilders?

Why must you challenge things for the sake of being fractious? When corrected, you fall back on an alternate definition of your own invention. If you don't care, why do you argue? Just....annoying.

Sigh.

Gregg Valentino does not compete in the IFBB. Even if he wanted to, he couldn't because of his synthol use (basically injected fat, hence his freakish arms). Even if it were allowed, he would never win anything (let alone go pro) with his current body composition. 

So no, Telemachus, he is not a bodybuilder. He mans a booth at the shows, sells drugs, and lifts weights when he isn't injecting himself.

99% sure the first pic isn't real. 90% sure the second pic isn't a bodybuilder.

Go go gadget Photoshop

I love how half the trailer is in the future tense.

"Home WILL become the most popular thing since cheese logs. You WILL play it for at least 4 hours a day. And you WILL love every second of it."

I'm a bit wary of the micro-purchases they will undoubtedly incorporate. Want to wear a leather jacket or carry a big sword? Let's see that wallet of yours, and I'm not talking about a virtual one.

A weekend in Vegas is never a total loss.  If the convention sucks, you can always go see Cirque De Soleil or something.

Or something, yes.

Uh oh. Does he say anything about me?

Haven't listened to it. 

I'd vote for the chastity option also. I don't see why we should be so quick to change historical elements of the AGS community to make it more palatable to newcomers. It's a niche community, and esoteric in nature to begin with. If this were a general game development forum, I would agree with censuring the award to appeal to mainstream sensibilities.

In Japanese, Sony means Satan.

Between this and their 'Playstation Pornable", it looks like they're living up to their name.

How about them Yankees?

Jeez, we don't need to know this. How could this thread ever be a good idea?

Oh, right, I clicked on it. But it was an accident, really.

About 80% of MTV's viewers live outside of the US.

http://www.brandchannel.com/features_effect.asp?pf_id=221

I dislike the network because it projects a very false image of America to the rest of the world. While a certain percentage of the US population emulates the hip-hop image, it is far from representative.

When I worked at Gameloft (a French mobile gaming company), they insisted on using an absurd lexicon for the games marketed to Americans. For instance, they replaced the 's' ending on plural words with 'z', omitted the 'g' from 'ing', and peppered each sentence with slang like 'cool', 'dude', 'dog', etc. The final result read like a parody of the already farcical "Dude, Where's My Car" script.

When I attempted to correct any of it, they told me (in ironically thick accents) that I wasn't the "average American" and that they knew more about American culture than I did. Obviously, they have their finger on the cultural pulse of America since they watch MTV. Sadly, I've only lived here my whole life, so I can't contradict their superior information.

I wish I was making this up.

I, honestly, do think giving up some freedoms for some safety, isn't bad. It's only bad, when it's forced upon everyone. Giving up certain freedoms should be left to the individual.  (Under the logic that freedom doesn't cause injury on a person or their belongings).

Isn't the freedom to exchange freedom for safety an example of freedom?

A wise friend once said: "Outlook not clear".

Honestly, we have no plans for a sequel right now. Maybe in the future, but I doubt it would be near.

It's obvious you're a pro. You should quit messing with us.