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Messages - blueskirt

#541
Combat sequence in adventure games are always welcome. Just like logical death sequences remind the player that danger is always present, combat sequences can help to keep the characters but also the mood consistent since in brutal and chaotic environment not every problems can be solved with wits. I don't think the Indy adventure games would have had the same mood as the movies if there were no nazi to punch, nor do I think it would have been the same if Indy was shot on sight and a death message appeared everytime he encountered one since Indy doesn't always run away from his enemies, he confronts them and fights back too.

In several case, combat sequences added to an adventure game can change the experience completly. An adventure game where you could freely home invade dungeons and lich's tombs, pillage treasures, kill monsters and ruin the dungeon owner's plans while at the same time exploring new places, meeting characters, solving puzzle and living an epic tale would be an experience greatly different from the experience of playing yet another KQ clone.

Not everyone like them, we play adventure games to be entertained, sure, but adventure games is also associated with intelligent solutions for the problems the player encounter. If the combat sequences, instead of being clicking frenzies, still require thinking and wits to be overcome, even if the brain is used in a different way, I think it can fit in an adventure game. Some solutions to emphasis on wits instead of dexterity which I can think of right now:

Give the enemies some weak points, so you can either beat them using luck and brute force or simply finding the right weapon/strategy for the right situation.

Give the player the possibility to use his wits to neutralize, confuse or avoid the enemies altogether before the fight has even begun, like in Indy and the Last Crusade. In FOA it was even possible to weaken several of the labyrinth guards if you told them sentences that did not enrage them before the fight.

Turn based system that are a tad simplish with their overused Fight, Magic, Item, Run And Don't Look Back commands can be made more strategic when the player can customize his party and develop personnal strategies or when he also need to move his characters on a grid, like in Heroes of Might and Magic or this game. Adding more subtle and strategic commands can help too, in Superhero League of Hoboken, enemies have Greed, Pity and similar stats and you can use commands such as bribing or begging monsters for mercy during the fights.

Some optionnal puzzles, subquests and hidden items can be added in the game, which, when solved or found, reward the players with better weapons, armors, the Legendary Greatsword of +2 or a piece of information that can turn a tough combat in a non-violent encounter.

As for knowing when you cross the line between genre, simply ask yourself which genre is the dominant genre in your game. There are several FPS/platformer that feature huge world to explore, collecting powerup and solving some puzzles, but they are action games with adventure elements because the main gameplay element is to shoot baddies or cut them to pieces. Just like the Indy adventure games remain adventure games even if there are bouncers and several dozens of nazi to punch the lights out, because good old puzzle solving remains the primary gameplay element.
#542
What happen to great looking games which suffer from a handful of game crashing errors like No-Action Jackson?

What happen to games with graphics that do not age very well? In several case we're talking about the best games from 6 and 5 years old games that will be judged next to the games released in the last months. And what will happen in the next 6 years? Will the cup rating suffer from inflation as the quality of games keep on increasing?

Also regarding soundtrack, while originality is great, having a soundtrack that fit the game and the scenes' mood is probably more important than whether or not it comes from a RPG maker's sample soundtrack. Originality doesn't always mean that it's good or that it fits the game.

I too would prefer some sort of system that rate every aspects individually, then make an average or a customized average where some aspects worth a bit more or a little bit less in the balance, but also where some games can win bonus points for original soundtrack, innovation and unique features, because the classifying system that is currently proposed with its pass or crash feel can be unfair for several games, even AGS awards winners that have a negliged aspects.

Quote from: Pumaman on Wed 30/05/2007 19:12:54
Quote from: Hudders on Wed 30/05/2007 16:22:35
I think you should divide the score into categories, i.e. so many cups for graphics, so many for sound, etc etc. And then a final score, (which might, or might not be an average).

The existing user ratings will remain for graphics, sound, etc. These already do a good job of rating the sub-categories, and I don't see any point in giving the panel the ability to give each game an "official" graphics or sound rating.

As Andail says, the existing rating system will co-exist with the Panel-awarded Cups; the Games page will display both (eg. "Panel Rating: 3/5 Cups; User Rating: 74%"). Therefore, if you wanted to you could completely ignore the Cup-rating of a game, and just rely on the user rating to find a decent game to play.

Yes, but this time the rating will actually means something if it is done by knowledgable, dedicated and responsible peers instead of a legion of fanboys, even if I'm still unsure on how such system will take into account friendships and grudges between judges and creators.

Also, 2 categories that should be in the search engine:
AGS Award winners
AGS Award nominees
#543
General Discussion / Re: StarCraft 2
Sat 19/05/2007 19:23:41
QuoteMaybe now they'll make a "Universe of StarCraft" to go with WoW.
I'd buy it.

QuoteSame here - World of StarCraft, despite not being announced or even likely, you already have addicts. But seriously, what kind of character could a Zerg player play? There's exactly one kind of roleplaying possible.

This is one stupid idea actually. WoW is still recent and still on top of the best selling MMORPG, it would be insanely stupid for them to create another MMORPG that would just canibalize most of their WoW players from one game to the other rather than bring more fans. Plus a few months ago, while they hinted Starcraft 2, they also hinted for another MMO that wouldn't be a RPG.

Personally, I'd prefer if they created new franchizes for their MMO. When compared to other RTS of its time, most of Starcraft's greatness was its epic, complex plots, an aspect they kept polishing in the games that followed Starcraft. I loved Warcraft 3's story, but now with WoW, I fail to see why I should grind hundreds of levels, gold and items just to follow its plot, and if I don't see what happen in WoW, why should I care anymore about Warcraft's RTS games' plot? It has the same ring as leaving the cinema room for a bathroom pause right in the middle of a movie and going back to your seat just in time to see the ending.
#544
Tensions will never solve the greatest disaster that ever afflicted the Indy adventure games community thingy.

Now I say we all sit around a fire camp, join hands and hum Indy and Star Wars musics until the great spirit of Luc-As-Fan appears before us and does a comeback or tell us to "GO BACK TO BED YOU CRAZY WEIRDOS!"
#545
My ideal game would probably be a mix of what everyone mentionned: A mix of RPG and adventure (Kinda like Indy and the Last Crusade with increasable skills) that I would be able to finish. That or a game that would impress the ladies. Or both.

QuoteThe game I'm working on every so often is going to be a hybrid action adventure, which imo is a great marriage of two concepts.  Standard graphic adventures tend to bore me anymore.

If the games you plan to sell one of these day aren't standard graphic adventures, I can garantee you I will never buy one of your games just for the sole reason of "supporting the starving artist". :)
#546
Well, regarding their team size, it's pretty much the same as FOY now. If you look at their website, it was reduced to 10 members, with 4 of them that only work on the engine, I guess that explain where they are investing their energies right now.

QuoteSo really, you've probably seen about 10% of the background art from the game at most.

Good to hear! :)
#547
Quoteoh no he didn't!

Then it's a "Arrrrrrr! FOY reveals way too much, it leave no place for imagination!" kind of flamboyant. ;)

But seriously, what I meant was if you followed the first year of the project, checked the various website designs, forum, rolling demo, interviews on some websites and read the several articles that appeared in both The Inventory and the AGSezine, chances are you'll have easily seen between 25 and 30 different backgrounds, and back when the project was announced with "60 to 75 rooms to explore", showing that many backgrounds in such a short span might have been a little bit too much in the fans feeding and spoiler department. Hopefully the number of room to explore was increased to more than 100 and some old backgrounds will probably be re-drawn or edited, but the damage is already done.

Then there was the demo that was announced, hyped, delayed, postponed, lost, re-worked, re-announced, re-hyped, beta-tested, delayed, re-beta-tested and finally released for an entire year and that left some thinking "shouldn't they have put all this energy in the final game instead?".

I think that FOA2 may have once thought about following FOY's steps, but at some point they paused for a second, looked at FOY's public relation decisions, and decided to take a direction that was at the total opposite of what FOY did: release very little to none screenshots to not spoil anyone anything, keep a low profile until a significant part of the game is done, and if they ever do a demo, it will probably be tech demos to show and test new features rather than show how the final game will look. It's probably because FOY was so showy released too much teasers that FOA2 is so shy now.
#548
Quote from: miez on Sun 29/04/2007 01:03:43We're flamboyant? ;D

Quote from: AGA on Sun 29/04/2007 01:43:28I think BlueSkirt meant "productive".

I'm pretty sure I meant "flamboyant". Like "announcing, hyping and postponing a simple demo for a whole year" flamboyant. Like "spoiling everyone 30 game's backgrounds just in the first year" flamboyant.

Flamboyant. ;)
#549
The project is still underway, even if they don't want their project to be as flamboyant as FOY. I know they are still making progress with their engine, and drawing backgrounds. They also met in person several months ago to discuss, work on the game design and story. I still have no idea about their completion percentage, or whether the project will be released before or after 2040. It's pretty much all I know of it.
#550
Now that I think of it, there is also The Dead Case, a nice little gem of originality with a great story, which I recommand to anyone who loved Bestowers of Eternity and The Blackwell Legacy.

Also Johnny Rocketfingers 2, Gateway II and Chronon
#551
Dave: You summarized very well some of my opinions regarding RON's lack of polished graphics and today's standards.

Quote from: Rui "Trovatore" Pires on Tue 17/04/2007 09:19:37Food for thought - RON is dying or dead, and Maniac Mansion Mania is apparently thriving. Bigger comunity? More restricted universe? Characters that people actually know? Discuss, if you will. Shame that it's such a restricted community, what with being german-speaking-only and all.

There are several reasons for that:
Unlike RON, it hasn't been around for 6 years yet.
It's a totally new playground to experiment with for the authors.
The backgrounds and animations are more polished and are somewhat closer to today's indies standards compared to RON's graphics (making it easier to break into the mainstream and attract new fans).
It's based on a known and popular cult franchize rather than an unknown, original one.
Lastly LucasArts was very popular among german speaking adventurers (much more than Sierra) and there is a considerable amount of LucasArts or Scumm fangames projects in that language on the internet.

A few more questions worth asking:
Is there people still interested in making or playing more RON games?
Has RON and the old RON games still their place in 2007, taking into account today's indies standards?
Is there people interested in the idea of having new RON-like projects?
Would it be better to attempt reviving RON or would it be better to simply restart with a new RON-like project?

Personally I somewhat missed the RON boat. I played a few games when I discovered about AGS and the idea of having one big and interesting universe to play around always fascinated me, but then I discovered there had already 40 games released so far and it kinda scared me off. Then the Maniac Mansion Mania boat came but the english translations never did. I also remember Knightbridge Chronicles that looked insanely interesting but was never completed. A couple years later a friend tried to convince me to give RON a second try but since then the number of game had passed from 40 to 65 and I declined the offer. I am however still waiting for the next boat.
#552
General Discussion / Re: 'Gaming PC' type 2
Tue 17/04/2007 08:42:14
QuotePeople here have recommended both AdLib and Soundblaster sound cards. I believe Another World has enhanced sound with AdLib hardware. Are there any other titles that will work better with a card from one vendor or the other?

I personally have no idea. I mostly suggested this to you because I've seen a lot of people back in the days buying soundcards from really unknown brands and being owned when it was time to configure the game's sound and music and discovering their soundcards weren't in the list. Roland, Soundblaster and Adlib on the other hand were in absolutly every game's configuration menu as far as I can remember.
#553
In my games folder I can see:

The White Chamber
Frasse and the Peas of Kejick
The Game That Takes Place on a Cruise Ship
Peasant's Quest
Enclosure
#554
General Discussion / Re: 'Gaming PC' type 2
Tue 17/04/2007 02:26:01
I tried to this once, wasted 100 bucks on an old 286 whose graphical card was so badly configurated that even if it supported 256 colors, the Sierra games couldn't run on it. Then a month later a friend of mine told me about Dosbox and the 286 mostly collected dust.

Also, you will most likely end with 2 computers, because I think the specs to run the Sierra games and Planescape: Torment as authentic as possible are mutually exclusive as anything faster than the recommanded specs with the Sierra games will give you timer related problems.

What I'd suggest is an old compy 386 or 486 (but I think it might be too fast) with DOS, Win3.1 and a 'Turbo' button in front of it to pass from 33/66mhz to 25mhz for the DOS games with timer related issues, and a second computer, that has both Win95 and Win98 on it, to play the more recent games that XP cannot run anymore.

For your DOS machine, you should get a widely recognized sound and music card like Roland, Soundblaster or Adlib because less recognized brands will more likely not be on all installation and sound setup menu. As for the games that you should try to run flawlessly:
Games that require mouse, 256 colors, or windows
Some games with timer related issues like Space Quest 4, to see if they are playable
Some heavy DOS games like 7th Guest, 11th Hour, PQ4 and Little Big Adventure, to see if they run smoothly
Some games that require CDs to play, like C&C or Red Alert

For the Win95/98 machine most likely you will have problems with DirectX as some games will require a specific DirectX, an older one won't be enough to run it and it won't recognize more recent DirectX, hence why I recommand having a machine that dual boot with Win95 and Win98. Also try to get a Voodoo graphical card that can handle glass smashing effects, I had one that couldn't and any games where such effect would happen simply crashed. As for the games to try running, I'd suggest:
Really old 256 colors games that can only run on windows, like Even More Incredible Machine (And try getting sound and music)
Games that will more likely have DirectX related issues like Little Big Adventure 2 or Dark Reign
And those games that are so beefy it seems to take 5 minutes just to load or save a game, like Thief (to make sure it doesn't take 5 minutes just to save a game)
One last thing to check is sound as I've encountered a lot of games, a lot of computers and a lot of sound cards where the sound and music were insanely choppy

It's pretty much the games I'd try running, personally. If the machines can run those games without problems, they will probably handle any kind of game you could throw at them.

However if you only want one computer and if you don't want to use Dosbox, I don't think it will be feasible. I'd probably suggest the same as voh as Win98 could run some DOS games, even sound with some tweaking, it can run Win95 and Win98 games that XP can't run anymore, and it can also run Dosbox in case you have some games that run too fast.
#555
Quote from: Rui "Trovatore" Pires on Mon 16/04/2007 10:25:40
Re all stories having been told... a student of Schubert's (I think it was Schubert) once complained to him, while they were both strolling along the seaside (or at least in view of the sea), about how all the melodies had already been done, all the music had already been composed. At which point, Schubert turned towards the sea and said "Look, there goes the last wave".

If it ain't true it oughta be, so don't go spoling it by saying Schubert never once saw the sea in his life or something.

I'm not saying that in a smartass kind of way, I'm just asking the question. Pretty much like they can stir the Simpsons sauce for a thousand episodes, it doesn't mean all of these episodes will be worth watching. Or the same way people would groan if Yahtzee ever did another X Days a Something game.
#556
It would be great to have a reorganizing of the games page to make it less intimidating, and it would probably make a few more people play the series, who would have otherwise been scared at the fact there are 75 games in the database already and at first look it seems like that town has more history than Rome. However, I think it would only be a short term solution and would merely delay the inevitable, which also happen to be one fundamental law of internet communities: Without anything new released, most internet communities are doomed to a slow death. And worst of all, there is a certain point during the dying process where there are no turning back possible: to get something released you need new and talented fans, and to attract more talented fans you need something new to be released.

There is also a few questions that are worth pondering about:
Is it possible that pretty much all stories have been told already?
Is it possible that RON was only the thing of one generation?
Is it possible that the series' quality is no longer in par with the quality of today's indies games?

Regarding the quality of RON versus today's standards:
Should the RON ressources get a graphical update?
Would better graphics really be a good thing, as people with no artistic skills would hardly be able to add their own backgrounds or animations without having inconsistent graphics? Is it possible to have graphics that are of today's standards, yet simple to replicate for people with no drawing skills?

One can also push the reflexion further. Let's, for a second, stop considering RON like a series and think of it more like a phenomenon, could it be possible that the RON genre lives, even if there is no new games taking place in Reality-on-the-Norm town? By this I mean that maybe we should change the way RON kind of games are made. Rather than having a big, monolithic series where pretty much everything can happen, maybe there should have multiple and smaller RON-like series created by multiple artists, touching different themes, universe and atmosphere to attract more people to the RON phenomenon.

There are adventure games taking place in fantasy, scifi or realistic setting, there are adventure games that are humorous, some are emotive, other are serious and dark, why not having the same with RON-like series? You could have a dark and serious cyberpunk RON-like series or a light hearted RON-like series with a fantasy setting... several place, time, atmosphere or mood where people could tell their stories. Several smaller series would more likely reach out more people, and these would also be easier to follow and get into as there could have 4 or 5 series with 15 games each, instead of one big series with 75 games.
#557
General Discussion / Re: Calling in Yahtzee
Wed 11/04/2007 14:58:32
Quote from: Disco on Wed 11/04/2007 03:26:31
I guess I'm in a minority that pretty much ignores his games, somewhat on principle. While 5 Days was one of my first AGS games and it was okay, I have since revoked my support after spending a few minutes on that site you so graciously linked Sinsin :)
Quote from: Chicky on Wed 11/04/2007 12:12:02Seems we're in the same boat Disco.

Do yourself a favor and don't judge the person and the art at the same time. It's as worst as those who say Michael Jackson's songs are crap because he's weird now. Or those refusing to watch any movies with Tom Cruise because he jumped on the couch.

Quote from: Steel Drummer on Wed 11/04/2007 03:31:55
Dave Gilbert is a great game maker because all of his games are unique...

This is funny considering 2 of Yahtzee most recents projects were mix of adventure and space trading simulator, mix of adventure and platformer, and one of this unreleased project was an AGS life/dating sim.

Quote from: Steel Drummer on Wed 11/04/2007 03:31:55(most of Yahtzee's games were all from the same series- all that I can recall except for Odysseus Kent ). Who else has made a game where you play as a Rabbi? Dave, you rock!

This is funny considering Dave Gilbert released a lot less games than Yahtzee and 2 of Dave's projects are from the Bestower/Blackwell series and he already announced he'd release 2 more Blackwell games to make it a trilogy.

Quote from: The Orator on Wed 11/04/2007 04:22:15And Dave, you may want his power, but he wants your money.   ;D

Now THAT is funny! :D
#558
I tend to value cheerful endings just a tiny little bit more than negative ones because I'm from a culture that lost all its wars, failed most of its revolutions and tend to produce castrating stories with a big dose of despair and defeatism in them, sometimes I'm tired of watching movies made here where the heroes end up executed and the innocents turned into martyr.

However a mediocre good ending can be as much of a failure as a mediocre bad ending. Good or bad outcome, endings are better if they are funny or emotionnal, if they make you think, if they fit, if they are well narrated and well told, if they are not rushed, if they have a twist or something you did not expect, or simply if there is something that make you say "cooooOOOOOOooool.". I guess that's why I personally prefered the good ending of Mind's Eye over the bad ending.
#559
QuoteWe really need more bleak (or at least neutral) outcomes to bring up a balance and an appreciation for the positive outcomes in games, etc, imo.

I guess you're right. Good ending, bad ending, as long they are cool or great, well done and not rushed, I guess it will be ok. Unless if this too is subjective.
#560
QuoteGame endings don't need to be wonderfully positive, and as I said before, it is often the negative endings (even the unsatisfying ones) which make you actually think and impact you the most.  Tragic heroes, defeat just when you thought you'd won, these sorts of things stick with you because we're not used to losing and we don't like it.

Yes, but usually they lose just after they stopped the bad guys, or after they got their vengeance, or while/after saving the loved ones. Or they lose as soon as all their problems are solved and karma simply came back to bite them in the butt or because they were simply themself. Or they lose heroically, knowing their exploits will be told until the rest of time, knowing their ideals will survive, knowing they were fighting a just cause, knowing the bad guys might take their life, but they will never take their pride.

And if they die, it's with a smile on the lips, kinda happy that all their troubles, all their torments are now over. Or they die but not before they told everything they had to tell to their loved ones. If their friends or loved one die, it's to make them realise how foolish the main characters were, and make them progress in their life.

There is always a redeeming note in bad endings, to make them easier to swallow, may it be one of those I listed above, or may it be a cool or funny bad ending.

QuoteThe choices often had consequences, but the end sequence all came down to what you chose to do in the last half an hour or so. Anything else you did before that didn't matter. You could have killed everyone you could kill throughout the entire game, and then be a nice hero and save the day. (I'm speaking of the PS2 version, but I imagine the same applies to the PC version)

I think they aimed more on giving us non-linear gameplay, not non-linear plot with tons of story affecting moral dilemmas. If they really wanted to give us moral dilemmas, it would have been possible to work for the bad guys, and important NPC wouldn't be immune to damage.

In this particuliar case of knocking/killing everyone, civilians and allies could be very well killed in cross fire, accidentally, in cold blood, or could often be in the wrong place, wrong time, being witnesses of morally questionable action you could do. So there's no way to tell for what reason you could have killed or knocked them. Also not every tiny minor moral choices must have an impact on the final ending or the story.
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