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I kinda agree for TLC's second maze. The maze wasn't really complicated, nor the fights insanely difficult, but it had too much fights, making it difficult to concentrate on the maze when you were constantly interupted by countless fights. Plus, not being able to save at any point during the maze didn't really help. But the Castle Brunwald is in my opinion one of the coolest thing ever implemented in an adventure game but I recognize it had flaws. For one, you were not told anywhere that guards would become more suspicious and alerted as the body count increased, leaving you to wonder how they could smell you in a mile radius.

For two, fooling the guards was fun and interesting but tedious, you had absolutly no hints for the conversations that could have removed 1 or 2 dialogue trees. It's roughly 27 possibilities for a single disguise for a single guard if you exclude bribing a guard. And if that wasn't enough, 2 guards couldn't be fooled unless if you collected informations from 3 previous guards, informations which would no longer be available if you fooled the guards in a different way or if they were gone to neverland. So, that's 2 guards which would most likely make you waste your time and alert everyone if you had already knocked 2 guards. And it was impossible to immediatly restore in case of failure, everytime you'd have to knock the guard and go to the nearest room, or voluntary die to access the save/load menu.

The first time I passed thru that part, I remember feeling as baddass as someone who finished an old adventure game back when there had no internet for hints or walkthru and when walking deads were waiting for you at every street corners. It was cool, fun, new and interesting but tedious and badly executed. If it could be well executed, I'd love to see this in more adventure games.

As for the Sequel Police in SQ4, that was a timer issue that only happen when your computer is too fast, it wasn't a badly designed puzzle, just a badly coded one.

If I had to add puzzles to that list, I'd say the ending puzzles of Mystery of the Druids, basically you had 8 stone slabs that needed to be placed in a precise order, but you were only given 2 vague hints and it wasn't your average padlock puzzle where it's easily possible try every possibility. Instead they decided it would be ways better off if every stone slabs needed to be placed in differents rooms. Bad. And if there's one thing that's more annoying than this it's having to look in a walkthru to solve the final puzzle of a game. The best way to spoil the experience and make you feel cheap. Really bad.

Next I'd add dealing with Herman Toothrot in Escape from Monkey Island.

And the cookie recipe puzzle of Still Life. It was an original way to integrate a padlock puzzle (If I can call it like that) and would have been fun if it wasn't for the fact there had no hints anywhere and the only way to solve the puzzle was to ask grandma for her cookie recipe and hope the recipe is similar (good luck) or check a walkthru, which is usually the best way to determine if a puzzle sucks.

Add to that a bit of snow and a festival in the kingdom and you're also in line for december's MAGS. But I don't think finding a quest for the Knight and Squire is what will give you a lot of trouble since they could perfectly well be simple, overused and cliché and it would still be a charming adventure. Puzzles is what will surely give you more trouble.

I'd like to thank you, your cute little game gave me a sudden urge to play again Goblins 1 & 2 and Simon the Sorcerer 1 & 2, the second one I just finished for the first time last week-end. I'll probably line up the Discworlds pretty soon since I'm in a fantasy setting mood these days.

I thought Ron had nothing to do with MI3/4?

When I say "Ron's MI3" I mean the one game that was meant to be the true Monkey Island 2 sequel, the Monkey Island 3 we've never seen because Ron lefts LucasArts or was fired or whatever.

For the AGS games I'd say the endings of 7 Days a Stranger, 1213, Automation, Mind's Eye, the funny ending and the bad ending of Pleurghburg Dark Ages, the normal ending of GFW and the ending of The House That Ate My Soul.

For the other endings, I'd say, Maniac Mansion's "arrested on talk-show" ending, the endings of The Last Crusade, FOA, Out Of Order and Quest for Glory 2.

MI2 had a great ending too but it is hardly understandable as long we'll never see what Ron Gilbert wanted MI3 to be, or if you've read those articles that analyse in depth MI 1 & 2 and try to explain what Ron was planning. But then again, I've met people who read said articles and prefer to have CMI and EMI instead of Ron's MI3.

I cannot think of any endings that I really disliked. There are endings that marked me, ending that were pretty average, uninteresting which made me say "Meh!", but no endings that made me say "Man, what a dumb ending!"

You should play MM again because this just isn't true. Each of the six kids you get to select from has one or two unique talents, AND the game has several multiple endings availableÃ,  depending on which kids you pick. You can arrest the meteor, send it back into space, turn it "good" and get it eaten by something hungry. It could stand more dialogue, of course, but some characters do react differently to some parts of the environment.

I already did that long ago when Maniac Mansion Deluxe was released. Tried every ending with every kids in just 2 or 3 days. And down the line, if you exclude the possibilities to fry the hamster (fun but not necessary), repair the phone in the library (not necessary), or that Bernard is scared by the green tentacle, you can do absolutly everything with just one kid up to the point where you need to raid the lab and get rid of the purple tentacle.

It's only at this point that the kids' unique talents are required, to accomplish the several actions that are required to send the cops or Ed in the lab, or give the tentacle a contract. But up to that point, you can easily just pick Dave or anyone else, accomplish every puzzles and collect every objects, and use the other kids just as a third hands to distract Edna and Ed, or push the switch required to open a few doors or empty the pool.

With Gob2, you couldn't pick Winkle, do everything and only use Fingus as third hand for timed puzzles, nor could you pick Fingus and use Winkle as third hand, because they both reacted differently to everything, what you'd fail with Fingus, you'd succeed with Winkle and vice versa, or they'd both fail in a different comical way. I think it's improvement or better designing of the use of X different characters with X different personalities. But then again, I do recognize it's hard to implement such thing when you have to pick 3 out of 7 kids to form a team. There's simply too many possibilities of team combination to give every kids multiple talents and flaws, usable during the entire game, without creating several walking dead. Gob2 would probably have been the same if you had to form a 2 goblins team out of a choice of 6 gobllins. And MM would probably have been like Gob2 if it only involved 3 kids with well defined personalities, abilities and traits.

Indeed, and all of these are now added to my already long list of games to play.Ã, 

Maybe I should have been a little bit more explicit in my first post, maybe "innovative" was a bad word. But instead of looking for the first adventure games which had sound, speech, 16 colors, 256 colors, shiny graphics, point and click, sex, commercial AGS game, first person view or whatever, I was more looking for...

You know, suppose you take every adventure games out there, put them in line and strip 'em from their graphics, musics, and storyline, what is so unique in a game that make it worth being played while similar games could be easily forgotten. Something, an element, a part in the game that kinda shine by itself beyond the game itself, something, that would make the game worth being played just once in a lifetime, even if the game had sloppy graphics or a overused story (or at least seen just once if the idea was good but the game was badly realised). (So many innuendos in that last paragraph)

Quest For Glory shine from any other adv. games with a fantasy setting because it has RPG elements, different character classes and a stats system.

Galaxy of Fantabulous Wonderment shine from any other space themed adv. games because it had more than just puzzle solving, in that case it had ressource trading and piracy (Yes, it was done in Star Control and Elite but it's not something you see in every other adv. games)

Indy and The Last Crusade's castle Brunwald shine among any other evil guys' lair because you weren't exploring empty corridors (SQ2), a lair devoid of enemies (BASS) or killed on sight by every bad guys in the place (SQ2, Operation Stealth), instead you had to sneak your way in, avoid patrols, convince other guards to let you pass, fight if the situation turned bad, had to find disguise to progress further behind the enemy's lines... you don't see this in every adventure games. Additionally that it had so many choice of actions that can affect the storyline later, make your quest easier or harder, this too you don't see in every games.

The GUI of Loom, playing notes on a staff to accomplish various actions, instead of using hands/eyes/mouth icons, verbs or text parser.

Even if I never liked that game, Kyrandia 3: Malcolm's Revenge for being able to change your mood from nice to evil and get various and different reactions to your actions. Grrr! Bearly Sane for its rage-o-meter which affected your reactions depending on how pissed off was your character.

Runhot, if it was released, I remember it involved the player to change his mood between normal, sporty and stealthy, like Little Big Adventure (another one which stand above). Even stripped from the graphics or the storyline, everyone would have remembered that particuliar bit in the gameplay.

Bad Mojo, Bad Mojo which arguably has the plot of a "Escape from my room" Quest game, but where the character was a tiny little cockroach, crawling in the dust sheeps, the vents or the folds in a bed sheet.

I think that's enough examples.

As for MM, DOTT and Gobliins 2, I was more talking about you controling several characters. It's not done in every adv. games. DOTT improve from MM because every characters were all stuck in a different timeline, all faced different problems and had to cooperate by either exchanging objects or making an action that would modify the course of time and help another character, it's indeed an improvement from MM's controling multiple characters.

Gobliins 2 also improve because while every of the 7 characters of MM have the same abilities and talents except for 1 talent which happen to be the one you'll finish the game with, Gob2 involved 2 characters with distinct and opposite personalities traits, abilities, qualities, flaws. One goblin was gentle, caring, weak, easily scared, nice mannered and smart while the other was harsh, uncaring, strong, scary, wild mannered and too dumb to press a button. And each goblins would react differently to every single things, characters and inventory items in the game (I bet their sprite artists got commited in a asylum after the game was released). One would gently smell the perfume of the flower you spend the last 5 minutes to get a hand on, while the other would uncaringly give it a look, eat it and laugh in your face, forcing you to go back and retake it again. Sure it involved a lot of timing puzzle, but also a whole lot of juggling between both personalities of your characters. Same thing with Knightsquire, 2 completly different characters.

I don't talk about Gob1 or Gob3 here because in the first one, the multiple characters was mostly just an extension of GUI, every goblins represented an action rather than a whole character like in Gob2. And in Gob3, the sidekicks were mostly there just to continue the timed puzzles style used in the previous games.

Now that I think of it, Bureau 13 had you to select a few characters of a total of 6, each with multiple talents, to accomplish your quests.

Into The Light where your character was blind and you had to use your 4 remaining sense to guide you out of the troubles you were in. A nice little twist which didn't make the game to be just another drop in the sea.

It sound like I'll have a lot of adventure games to try one of those days. Particuliary In Memoriam. It sound deviously awesome and out of the box.Ã, 

-edit: Various typos and Into The Light-

The discussion over the new Sam and Max thread and the various list of horror adventure games I saw here in the last months got me wondering, why not a list of adventure games that are worth being played because they innovated and brought new ideas in the classic adventure game genre.

You knows, games like Quest For Glory for adding RPG elements into adventure games.

Maniac Mansion and its multiple characters, a concept which was pushed to the next level with Day of the Tentacle and Gobliins 2.

Loom with its unique GUI, or Full Throttle with its really blunt coin-verb interface.

Monkey Island 1's insult sword fighting.

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade's multiple solutions, non-linearity and for castle Brunwald, which was possibly the best evil guys's lair in an adventure game, I haven't seen a concept like that until the Hitman series.

Adventures in a Galaxy of Fantabulous Wonderment, for adding ressources trading, fighting and subquests.

Did I miss some? (I'm sure I'm only scratching the surface of the list)

I just finished your game after changing the keyboard options to german. Really awesome game, keep up the good work.

I think it's a good idea. There's so many adventure games I never played mostly because they weren't made by Sierra or LucasArts so I was unsure wether or not I would fall on dead-ends, walking deads, timed events or some really cryptic and hidden copy protections at some point in the game.

To unlock Neptune and Pluto:

Spoiler

Completing twice every planets in the arcade mode will unlock Neptune, completing every planets three times will unlock Pluto.

[close]

My highscores:
Moon - 1:18
Mars - 2:17
Mercury - 1:34
Jupiter - 2:18
Venus - 2:23
Saturn - 2:40
Sun - 5:39
Earth - 2:34
Uranus - 1:52
Neptune - 1:40
Pluto - 2:02

-edit: score-

I changed my monitor, the old one was too dark even with the luminosity and contrast to the max, and all the colors and little details I couldn't see before gave me the motivation to play Tiltor again.

Scratch finishing the game with a time of +10 hours or without saving from the list of things to try 'cause it didn't unlock anything.

In case you're wondering, it took me 37:17 to finish the adventure mode without saving. 33 deaths: crushed twice, and restarted 31 times.

-edit-
Another theory crossed my mind, what if one of those levels, those that aren't perfectly closed, what if one of them had a hole, which, using a path that is insanely complicated, probably more complicated than the exit path itself, allowed you to leave the boundaries of the level and get you to endlessly drift in space and eventually reach one of the locked planet. There's a voice in my head that tell me it's way too overthought and the solution must probably be really simple, and there's a voice in my head that tell me it's so crazy that it could actually be that.Ã, 

-edit 2-
Nope, that didn't work either. I found 3 ways to leave the boundaries in Saturn's last level, the one with tons of holes, but upon reaching the border of the screen, it just did as if it was a wall. Too bad, the spirit was there.

Nah it's not because the game was easy, after all It took me nearly 6 hours to finish the game the first time, the levels were particuliary tormenting at the end. It's because when you play the adventure mode, you can save anytime you want. So, when I arrived at a tough level, I saved and practiced until I knew the level by heart, then I reloaded and finished the level while the solution was still fresh in my memory. Time run highscore for the adventure mode shouldn't allow you to save between the levels.

As for unlocking Neptune and Pluto, I have a few idea myself, like finishing the adventure mode without saving, without dying or with a time of 9:59:59. But I stopped to play the game last week because I seriously needed a break. Everytime I was idle, I imagined little red cubes at whatever I was currently looking at (walls, text on webpages, TV, etc.) and I imagined it moving around as if I tilted left or right.

As for highscores:

Moon - 1:28
Mars - 4:13
Mercury - 8:29
Jupiter - 9:59
Venus - 4:00
Saturn - 6:28
Sun - 48:38
Earth - 3:27
Uranus - 2:13

I have a question of my own though. To my surprise no other planet was unlocked after I finished Uranus. How do I access the remaining bonus levels?

To unlock Earth in arcade mode:

Spoiler

Finish the story mode as fast as possible, Tiltor will be fast enough to destroy the sun instead of getting vapourized. No idea how fast it need to be, my time was 26:41. Save before every tough level, practice and when you think you know the solution perfectly, just quit and load. However it's still tough when you forgot the solutions or when the solutions are too complex to be remembered. Sometimes you find the solution, but need to replay the level again because you don't remember what you just did.

[close]

Thank for the tip sovka!

I'm always getting corrupted files in the install, I've tried different browsers and both links but it doesnt seem to work.  :'(

Have you tried the Mytempdir.com mirror. I had the same problem and it was the only URL that worked for me.

Awesome! Simply awesome!

The music, the weird story, the cutscenes, this flashing effect once a crest was aquired which strangely reminded me of old Amiga games. This game is simply awesome! I wasn't even certain it was possible to design such complicated and difficult levels nowaday, since most puzzle games released todays are strangely easier than those released in the 80s and 90s.

I just finished the game but...

Spoiler

Tiltor wasn't fast enough and died on its way to the sun. :'( Is this the end? Or do I need to replay the entire game again except faster to destroy the sun and possibly unlock Earth, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto which are listed in the arcade mode's highscore list? What bother me the most with all this is that I forgot most of the puzzle solution or solved them thru luck mostly. I fear it will be as hard to solve the puzzles as it was the first time.

[close]

Anyway, keep up the good work, I just can't wait to see more games (and more puzzle games maybe) from you.

While you can do anything you want concerning auto censoring or rating (not sure how it should be called), I'd like you to remember that we have the privilege of not being censored or rated and that mentalities evolve by provocating reactions, that you always need to push the limits farther if you want to the taboo subjects to stay open and continue to be discussed and debated.

While auto rating your own games may be nice because it warn people from your game's content, it also shield people from whatever message or idea you wanted to vehiculate, and in the end, people that would probably have benefited from this provocating will end still living in their little bubble where absolutly nothing will ever shake the foundation of their life, change their mentality or expose them to different point of views. It's pretty much like those "Warning: Political/religious thread" warnings in the title of debates thread. A lot of people just say "Meh." and automaticly move away by fear to be confronted to other people's opinions.

I don't think we'd have been the slowly more and more open society we are today if we didn't had all the David's statue, Story of O, Ceci N'est Pas Une Pipe, Elvis's dance moves, The Clockwork Orange, Fight Club, etc.

As for the professionalism bit, the games and movies industry do it because they are forced to if they want their products to be on the shelves. That doesn't automaticly mean they do it because they want to.

My two energy credits.

Pity I haven't played it more the first time to notice those before. Same bug, same campaign, different places:

At the begining, you kill the brigands for the windmill and you get the location of the their camp, at this point, as long the brigands camp is still occupied by the brigands, you can keep visiting the windmill for infinite gold.

In the swamp, west of the first screen, once all the trolls and the witch are killed, you can keep visiting Swalto for infinite experience points.

And finally in the Drows' cave, once you kill the drows in the middle fortress, you can visit it for infinite gold. (A strange thing here, instead of saying my actual number of gold when I clicked on the fortress, it kept saying "gold 48597564" or a similar number)

My testing stopped in the Drows' Cave. At this point, I thought if I was going to pass thru it all to find more bugs, it would be easier if I had a lot of level to make the whole monster killing faster. But sadly, I guess I clicked on Swalto one too many time because when I finished the next fight, and when I was about to receive my next level, the game crashed. I guess it couldn't handle having a big 75000xp number in the value.

There's a little bug in the v1.0, I'm not sure if it was corrected with the latest versions, but you'll receive gold everytime you visit Biggelow once you complete every missions for it.

Simply amazing, keep up the good work.

It apparently mess around when you're burning CDs or DVDs, if not ruining your burner completly, additionally to slow down your computer. Games like Broken Sword 3, Ankh, Still Life and Runaway are using it.

If you're looking for info, Wikipedia lists all the fiasco related to it, and Boycott Starforce lists all the games using it and how to remove it.