Messages

Hey there. I've got a mixed bag to report today.  8)

Warnings
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After one playthrough I noticed a warnings.txt file had been created with two copies of the following line:

(in room 75): Warning: ChangeCharacterView was used while the view was fixed - call ReleaseCharView first

Unfortunately, I can't say for sure what caused it, since it didn't generate an error whilst I was actually playing the game.

Bugs
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* After stoning Medusa (again with pocket stuffing), I looked at the scene through the telescope. The first time, Medusa was fixed in place, but without the "stoned" picture (ie. she looked normal, but of course I didn't get stoned). When I left the scene and returned to it, she was gone.

Suggestions
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* In the general store, clicking on the barrels it says you'd like to try the wine but don't want to carry a cask around with you. Therefore it would be sensible to have a custom response if the player tries to click the cup on the barrels.
* allow players to fill up the jar with normal water, and then allow them to later use it in the desert to refresh themselves
* Is the hideout rope ladder meant to keep retracting after you leave the screen? After all, I thought one bandit is sleeping and the other is putting down roots in the bar. Plus, using the hole a second time indicates that the rope ladder is stuck down; so I think it would make more sense to leave it hanging down once it's been discovered
* In the general store, the area rectangle for lard should be tweaked - it says it's lard at 170, 80, even though it's in the second of the blue rectangular spices
* If you've already got some lumber, it should stop you from taking some more off of the dead tree
* I'm currently trying to figure out where the salt is. I tried using the bottle of sea water on both the general store's stove and the 3 Bear's fire (to evaporate the water and leave the salt), but I get no response - one would be appropriate here

Radiant, thanks for the heads up. I was stuffing around in Manannan's house trying my damnedest to open the stuck drawer among other things on the basis the mirror would be hidden in here. Also, the flash of yellow I meant was around Manannan's shoulder-blades. I'm assuming a bit of yellow got into one of his animation frames. Very minor nitpick, but it really drew my attention after the whole "top of cupboard" flash.

Fluxmaster, whilst having different images for the telescope viewing would be good in theory, it would seem to be a great deal of work for very little reward. After all, I only realised that the camera angle was wrong when you explicitly pointed it out, and I don't think you spend enough time using the telescope to make it worthwhile.

A few more bugs to add to the list:

V3 room 53 [229,139]: Walk north, and you fall in front of the ground
V3 room 75 [202,101]: Clicking virtually any item on the water gives a message about "a cup not being suitable for holding water"
V3 room 75 [292,99]: You can walk right through the yellow fish

Fluxmaster, as I said in my previous post, I killed off Medusa by stuffing my pockets to have all items available. Admittantly there's the potential to ruin the puzzles, but I wanted to properly search the desert for any bugs, and couldn't with that blasted Medusa stoning me all the time. Interesting comment from Radiant - that you can kill Medusa legitimately in this beta; now I'll have something to occupy me until the next beta comes out.Ã,  8)

As a general statement about the remake, it is more regimented in that it won't let you do something before you know about it. For example, you can't open the trapdoor level until you've seen Manannan do it. That raises a point. When you click on the oak tree hole without knowing that it's important it says "there's nothing important there". IMHO, It might be better to say something like "You briefly consider sticking your hand into an unknown hole, but don't want to run the risk of your fingers being bit off".

Please don't remove the teleporter. I admit that it has the potential for abuse, but I've found it invaluable for getting to areas quickly for testing. And not just for getting down the mountain in the absense of the magic map.

A few minor issues found today, nothing major:

* V3 room 83 [25,87]: Clipping error - you can walk through the rock
* V3 room 84 [16,153]: Clipping error - you walk in front of the black rock
* Desert - Manannan will rarely appear briefly as you wander the desert, but clicking the talk icon on anything else on the screen will say "there's nobody to talk to". A talk response for Manannan would be good for if the player is fast enough.. even something simple like "He simply looks at you without responding"
* If you swim east from the end of the pier, then west, you don't return to the pier

I'm running low on finding any more bugs in beta 3. Below are the few more that I've managed to find:

Bugs
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* Room 74 could still use some clipping fine tuning. I can walk to 217,72; a point where Alexander barely has one foot on solid ground
* Medusa as a statue has no use action (having used stuff pockets to get the mirror; I haven't figured out where it's hidden in the remake yet)
* The medusa chase music plays if you return to the desert scene where you stoned Medusa. Is this intended?
* You should be able to use the jar of water in the desert to stave off dying of thirst
* I don't think the "dying of thirst" in the desert countdown is being properly reset when you leave the desert. I was near collapsing when I left the desert, and got an immediately warning dialog the moment I re-entered it
* When the treehouse rope ladder is down, you can walk right through it
* There's no look or use description for the spiderweb strand
* I enter room 94 at 158,57 I then click to move south to 158,92, but instead Alexander turns and leaves the screen to the north


PS: Loved the Harry Potter reference when trying to deal with the snake. 

fluxmaster, you never get to give the fish oil to Manannan. If you experiment, you'll see that get it's the trigger for the thieves attacking you and taking your posessions. Plotwise, that's a good introduction for them; the next day (technically several days hence), a sub-thread becomes locating them and getting your stolen items back.

As far as day 2 goes, once you've finished your punishment for not having the fish oil (well, not anymore), it should move on to dinnertime for Manannan, and then night 2 begins.

Congratulations on the very prompt release of the third beta, Radiant. Just when I was wondering if it was worth starting again from scratch to look for more bugs, you come out with beta 3.Ã, 

Below are bugs I've found in beta 3 tonight:

Bugs
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* You now start with a cinannon stick. Is this intended? Previously, I had to go down to the shop to get one
* Clicking on Restart now gives Global script 1501; Error: ResetRoom: cannot reset current room
* Manannan still has a tendancy to appear and then do nothing. I'm presuming he should disappear again after a brief period
* Going outside at night, I notice that there's now a chicken outside (previously they disappeared at night). But, for example, clicking on the corn says there's no point when the chickens are inside the coop.
* When the dream sequence starts on Night 1, you get an error "Error seeking entry! (please note room number 19, and from where exactly you entered it"
* When you're forced to sleep at the end of night 2, you get the same error again, only this time it's "room 29"
* At daybreak on day 2, you can enter Manannan's bedroom, and with him right there ordering you to get out, you can click on the broken glass to initiate the cleanup sequence, with slightly screwed up results eg. Manannan disappears from the bedroom, and whilst the cleanup sequence finishes, the glass fragments remain; you can click on them again, which causes a fatal error this time
* The chamber pot error that others have reported is still present
* I think that it's poor planning that you have to sleep on night 2 to trigger the cat appearing. It means that it erraneously tells you, when it wakes you up, that you still haven't figured out a way to open the trapdoor, even if you've already found a way
* Also related to night 2 sleeping, if you go to the lab before sleeping, there's always the possibility that you'll have already gotten the item you need to get the past the cat and have hidden it under the bed (confidentally expecting the night to end). Thus, if you go back to the lab to see if there's anything you missed, you'll be in a dead end situation since you no longer have it on you. A better solution overall would be, IMHO, to also trigger the cat appearance when the player picks up the item, thus giving the option of skipping the first sleep altogether. And if you go to sleep having visited the lab, but not having got the item, you could give an alternate wake up message, such as "You wake up with the feeling that there's still more you could do in the lab".
* Given the explicit warnings about being seen with the key, I thought I had to sneak it back to the top of Manannan's closet before he noticed it was missing. But there's currently no response dialog for that action. I mean, given the fact that it only appears at night-time (witnessed by the fact that it's not there on day 3 if you didn't pick up the previous night), you'd think the wizard is actively using it to open his own safe. Which would make it sensible to allow the player to replace it as soon as he can on day 3. Likewise for trying to replace it at night time
* Leaving the 3 bears house produces another "error seeking entry" error
* I can't even get into the treehouse now; when I reach the screen at the top of the rope ladder I get a fatal error: Room 46 script line 32; Error: MoveCharacter: character not in current room
* There are still problems with swimming and then getting out of the water. In beta 3, you start walking in place once you're out of the water, and when moving between rooms you briefly flicker to a swimming animation.

Nitpicks
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* When Manannan is sleeping in his bed, there's a brief flash of yellow that keeps happening. I wonder if this is a graphic glitch or it's meant to indicate another item?
* Most of the inventory items still don't have a use response. Maybe a simple default response like "You can't use it directly"
* I notice that scrolling arows have been added to the save/load dialogs. Could you add a repetitive scrolling if the user holds the mouse down on one of them?


PS: The previous fatal AGS errors no longer occur. Kudos. Also, I already managed to figure out the cat puzzle solution on my own. Kudos again for a really challenging puzzle (although there is the dead-end problem I mention in bugs). Given the treehouse error, I guess I'll wait for beta 4 to solve getting the flask.Ã,  Ã, :'(

Hiya Fluxmaster, I'd like to make two comments about your last bug report:

Firstly, with regards to the shopkeeper, he's afraid of Manannan. In fact, one of the descriptions (I think it's the look one) says to the effect "He's never asked for payment since Manannan made it clear that he wouldn't pay for goods". As his lackey, this applies to you. That's why he's so subservient if you try talking to him.

The second point is with regards to time. This remake seems geared more to completion of plot points than time. I actually prefer it this way. It means you can't accidentally forget to do something and then complain later on (the whole issue of dead-ends in games). Like for instance on day 2.. you can't finish the day until after you've bought the fish oil like Manannan tells you to.

Admittantly, there could always be the problem of figuring out what you're supposed to be doing, but that's where subtle writing and handling of the plot comes in.

PS: This is directed to Radiant, but Fluxmaster mentioning the mushroom on a tree made me think of it, could you add a Monty Python reference if you try to click the fish on a tree? Something like "What are you trying to do? Cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with a herring?". That what would be awesome. 

Day 4 bug reports. I'm starting to have trouble finding new bugs, which is a good sign. I guess I'll have to wait for beta 3, and see if it fixes all the errors I've already reported.Ã,  8) And hopefully some more of the plot in this excellent remake implemented.

Bugs
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* If you feed the chickens, and then click on the gate, you will now open the gate from the outside (except you still go "through" the fence). Also, doing so seems to screw up the gate opening logic, as if you now click on the gate you'll walk through the gate, open it, and then walk back into the pen!
* When in the chicken pen, you can click on the front door and walk through both the gate and part of the wall
* On the first day, just after I finish dusting the study, Manannan pops in. But then, nothing.. he just stands there. He doesn't tell me anything. I can't dust again, so I only have the option of leaving the room, and being punished by Manannan.
* Manannan's bedroom cupboard opens when you click on it, irrespective of where you are in the bedroom
* Experimenting with the spellbook, I clicked the mouth icon on a spell to start it. But then there's no way to stop trying to make the spell or close the spellbook short of using the AGS Alt-X sequence
* There's no use description for the toad spittle
* I now seriously think that finishing night 2 is a bug - I do everything I can in the lab now - get the toad spittle, the empty bottle, and look through the spell book. But returning to bed, it keeps waking me up saying "I should figure out a way to open the trapdoor". I already have! Testing further, it seems that trying to sleep is what triggers the cat to appear, and teleporting somewhere else within the house and sleepng again day 2 is finished. So the question is how to deal with the cat.. objects like the knife won't work (and should, BTW, have a response), and currently the use icon doesn't do anything, nor does leaving the room multiple times get rid of it. I'm at a loss..
* When I say day 2 is finished, I mean sleeping gives me the daytime showing in the window. But when I leave the room, I'm back to nighttime again. And Mannanan accosts me and forces me to sleep. I'm not sure whether this is a side effect of the teleporting away from the cat, but I don't think so
* In room 74 at 237, 164 if I walk west I suddenly get moved to the screen to the south
* If I swim out far enough, I see a seehorse with a saddle (perhaps a KQ2+ easter egg). I click the hand onÃ,  it, and as I get near it disappears, but it still complete the use sequence, with a "touch" error
* When Alexander gets eaten by a shark, after his disappearance and the shark leaves, he appears again, swimming.
* In room 94, you can't leave the screen to east when you're in the river. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to
* Clipping problem - in room 84, you can see water movement through the right-hand bird

Nitpicks
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* Mouse wheel support in the save/load dialog would be useful, particularly when we have many savegames
* Most rocks across the countryside don't have a use description. It would be natural for a player to be trying them since one of the spells require it

PS: If someone figures out a legitimate way to get past the cat on night 2, please, let me know

Hey, fluxmaster, it's probably just as well to start from scratch with each beta. After all, there's no guarantee that any fixes that Radiant has made won't have any adverse affects, so it's a good practice to retest everything again. And given that he's already stated that the current beta doesn't let you go beyond plot point #14, it's only a 3-day (in-game) timefrime to be testing. Not exactly the whole game yet.

Well, it's time for the day 3 installment of by beta testing report.Ã,  :. Since I'm up to the stage of getting the firewood, I guess I'll just muck around some more in the first three days looking for bugs. BTW: todays bug report includes two fatal crashes of AGS itself, that you may want to pass on to "CJ".

PS: I switched over to using beta 2, so all these bug reports apply to it.

Bugs
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* Attempting to pick up some acorns on Day 2 gives the fatal error "Room 62 script 174; Error: AnimateCharacter: invalid loop number specified"
* Any time you try talking to the wizard, you now get an appropriate response dialog, but then immediately after the old "You'd feel pretty silly talking to s wizard" dialog appears.
* That medusa is vicious! I left the desert to escape her, and it didn't stop her! She started chasing me across the countryside. Given the original KQ3, I'm assuming this is a bug
* If you travel between the oak tree and the screen south of it on the very left hand side of the screen, you can get stuck in a loop of being bounced between the two rooms. It's easiest to demonstrate if you go north to the oak screen from x position 7.
* Clipping error - you walk in front of the big tree stump in room 72 (ex. at EGO 132,150)
* Clipping error - if you walk east of the cliff in room 74 from 198,67, you start falling through the ground, before been moved to the beach screen to die
* The position you walk to before opening the door outside the general store isn't anywhere near the actual door
* When you pick up the fish that the fisherman has caught, you then immediately automatically walk south off of the pier
* If you climb up the ladder on the pier, you can then no longer walk. You can, however, click on the ladder again and walk after climbing back down the ladder
* Looking at the drawers in the 3 bear's bedroom now tends to cause a fatal error "Global srcipt line 90 Error: Cannot display message with extended characters in SCI font". Either that or nothing is displayed. This also happens if I try and look at the empty bottle
* A doozy occurred when I tried clicking the fish on the dog, when it was outside the general store. It also occurred when I tried clicking an object on myself in the same screen as well:

---------------------------
Illegal exception
---------------------------
An exception 0xC0000005 occured in ACWIN.EXE at EIP = 0x0042B4A5 ; program pointer is +6, ACI version 2.61.747, gtags (10,10)

AGS cannot continue, this exception was fatal. Please note down the numbers above, remember what you were doing at the time and notify CJ on the Tech forum.

(Global script line 73)
---------------------------

I also got another fatal AGS error when I try using the hand on the empty bottle:

---------------------------
Illegal exception
---------------------------
An exception 0xC0000005 occured in ACWIN.EXE at EIP = 0x004491B0 ; program pointer is +1007, ACI version 2.61.747, gtags (0,7)

AGS cannot continue, this exception was fatal. Please note down the numbers above, remember what you were doing at the time and notify CJ on the Tech forum.

(Global script line 2571)
---------------------------


Nitpicks
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* The windows for Alexander's bedroom and kitchen at night don't currently have a description
* There's no description for looking at the milk
* The cinnamon sticks graphic could use a little work
* I'm surprised that Manannan doesn't kill you for carrying around the piece of paper you stole from his study trashcan. Even if he doesn't think you can read.
* I'm wondering what the deal is with the eagle feather dropping. Unlike the original, it only drops the feather into the river, and no matter how much I try and grab it (even at low speed), it always says I'm in the wrong place. And even if I follow the river after it, it's gone. I hope it's not a dead-end situation, despite your earlier reassurances, if you can't get it immediately


On a final note, I think I've just found a newly introduced easter egg. One time when I went upstars in the 3 bears house, there was a weird character on the bottom right-hand bed. It vanished after a secondÃ, 

fluxmaster, you're not stuck. Keep at it.

Stand by for day 2 of my testing experiences. 8)Ã,  I do want to point out right at the top here, that I found the wizard's lab room to be particularly buggy. I wasn't able to get to day 3 because of it, because the game kept prodding me go visit the lab. So I eventually used the teleporter to force it change to day 3 so I could continue testing.

Bugs
----
* Swim out into the ocean from the stream, and then return back to the previous screen - you won't stop swimming and will swim across the land
* On Night 2, not having tried to go into the basement before, I use the key on the safe to get the wand, and then immediately click the hand on the bookcase. The dialog sequence for opening the trapdoor is interrupted midway by the safe-opening sequence, even though I'm nowhere near it. It also reoccurs when I come back up from the basement.
* Attempting to get the toad splittle causes a fatal error "Room 25 script 233, Error: SetCharacterFrame: invalid frame specified"
* Clicking on any of the buttons or the book when in the close-up view of the spellbook causes the wait-hand cursor to appear and the game to hang
* Looking at the bookcase on the right-hand side of the lab causes a fatal error "Room 25 script line 131, Error: IsObjectOn: invalid object number"
* You can place the wand back in the safe when you're nowhere near it, although it doesn't actually get removed from your inventory
* When you look at Manannan in the observatory on Night 2, in addition to the description dialog you see a second blank dialog
* I'm not sure if it's a bug or not, but when the cat finally turns up on the stairs, I can't get some hair from it. Also, I'm not sure if there's meant to be a puzzle to getting past it; it keeps moving to intercept me and trip me up, and repeatedly going back down to the lab screen and returning doesn't get rid of it
* Going into the tavern, there's nobody there. Yet if I try to get the tankard on the counter, it says that the barmaid scowls at you
* Clipping problem - in the tavern, you can effectively walk on the table when it should be obscuring you
* Clipping problem - if you walk up to the fisherman, your body will be behind him, but your legs will be in front
* I can't get Night 2 to end without using the teleport cheat to force it to daytime - when I sleep it keeps complaining that I should check out the celler, which I've already done. But of course I can't read the spellbook with it hanging the game, and I can't see any way to get past the cat when it appears (since all my belongings have been previously stolen)
* Day 3, in the treehouse, the bin (which I'm presuming should have all my stolen items), doesn't - it's empty
* If you wake up the mugger in the treehouse, you can, if you're quick, then click on the bin and get the opening sequence, complete with "doing it quietly to prevent the mugger waking up"... he's already awake and chasing you
* The room description for outside the treehouse once again takes up two dialogs with a split in the middle of a word
* I can't get close enough to the flask outside the treehouse to get it. I'm not sure if this is intended as a puzzle or not (like navigating the mountainside at night). Unfortunately, I'm not able to get back all my possesions to try other objects
* If you wake up the mugger and immediately exit the treehouse, the mugger will suddenly be high up in the branches. You'll then immediately fall to the ground and die
* Going into the three bears house, you appear in the room by the fireplace, rather than by the front door
* Clipping problem at 92,137 of the bear's house - you walk behind a staircase pillar that you should be walking in front of
* Clipping problem at 112,112 of the upstair's 3 bears house - if you walk straight south to go downstairs, you walk in front of the landing graphics. Also, if you go down the stairs from 117,112, you get same problem as with the stairs in Manannan's house - the screen flashes and you're returned to the upstairs room. I presume the exit of the staircase top isn't properly aligned to the exit in the downstairs staircase.
* Leaving the 3 bears house, you suddenly find yourself in the top-left hand corner of the outside screen, and the door closes

Nitpicks
--------
* The oak tree room description screen is also two dialogs worth, with the first dialog cut in the middle of a word
* In the lab, why does it say "Manannan would notice the book is missing" if you just look at it. A better message would along the lines of "a dusty old tome rests on the table"
* Why aren't I able to talk to the fisherman? When I try it says he doesn't mind that I'm unable to speak
* The save/load dialog doesn't have a border with scrollbars. This means that with more than one screen worth of savegames, I have to manually use the keyboard to move through the list
* The description for the sleeping mugger in the treehouse says "They", but there's only one there.
* The firewood inventory graphic needs some work; I thought it was a cup to begin with
* The cookbook currently doesn't have a description
* The upstairs drawers in the 3 bears house needs some descriptions
* Given that there's the sitting down animations for the 3 chairs in the 3 bears house, you'd expect the upstairs beds to have a similiar animations if you use them

Absolutely brilliant new game.Ã,  Here's the results of day 1 of my beta testing:

Bugs
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* If you leave the second floor of the house going down the stairs at the very right hand side of it (ex. at EGO 210,160), the screen flashes and then you suddenly re-enter the same room again
* The mouse disappears when you get the ending after drinking the potion of contentedness. This means you can't click on any of the buttons, so the game is effectively hung
* When suprising Manannan in the basement lab, you're meant to walk down most of the steps and then get killed when a pebble falls. However, most of the time Manannan notices you immediately and does the "You're up to no good" zap death routine and turns you to ashes. But then it tries to take you through the "pebble" death routine, with Alexander moving with a sitting down image. The result is that Alexander dies a second time, but the waiting hand is left on, meaning you can't click on any of the buttons, effectively hanging the game.

I think it's due to the timer for whether Manannan appears to kill you not being turned off immediately when you enter the lab room, resulting in it going off in the middle of the pebble death automatic walking down the steps
* Frequently when I start KQ3 the startup sequence hangs. The music continues until the point when the screen should change to the credits, and then just stops. The sparkling continues but thats it. This happens most frequently if I quickly start up KQ3 again after having to previously use the AGS abort function. It also frequently happens if I press Escape to try and bypass the startup sequence. It also happens after using the in-game Restart button
* Once when I was being stoned by Medusa via the telescope, Manannan appeared as I was turning to stone. It didn't screw up the death message, but the image for the stoned Alexander got replaced with Alexander as normal

Nitpicks
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* The walk icon should have it's clickable range extended down a bit so that you can click below the area picture (but above the action icons) to leave a screen to the south; currently I keep having to click multiple times because I don't click within the area picture
* In the entrance room of the house, the pathfinding doesn't work between the top of the stairs and the bottom. ie. I need to click on the landing and then click on the top of the stairs
* The look text for the portrait in the entrance room takes up two screens, and is split in the middle of the word "distinct"
* In the drink of contentedness ending text, "an wise" should be "a wise"
* In the kitchen's apple bucket use description it calls it a "basket"
* When you perform sweeping the kitchen as a task, it says "you're too busy sweeping"? Maybe a betterÃ,  Ã, message would be "You busily sweep the kitchen"
* A clipping problem - on the mountainside, if you stand at EGO position 86,88 and push PgUp (for NE travel), Alexander falls downards behind most of the mountain and then suddenly falls in front of the rocks at the bottom
* It would be better to have a more explicit death message when you fall off the mountainside at nighttime. I spent some time with both the cursor and keyboard trying to get past EGO position 90,90 before realising it was a built-in stop to prevent you from reaching the countryside too early.
* When you feed the chickens as your initial task and then click on the gate, you walk through the fence and open it from the inside
* When you've seen that there's something metallic on the top of Manannan's bedroom cabinet, if you click on the top of the cabinet with the hand, you'll move over to the cabinet but it will then say "You're not
close enough". You have to click a second time to get key. I presume the first message shouldn't happen.
* When you click the talk bubble on Manannan when he first appears to give you a task, it says "You feel pretty silly talking to a wizard". A more appropriate comeback from the wizard would be appropriate
* On the mountainside clipping errors occur around EGO positions 96,84 and 167,92
* The toadstool looks awfully white after picking it - ideally it should remain the same red and grey as it is when it's on the ground

Comments
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* As a matter of personal preference, would it be possible to have the game controls at the top of the screen rather than the bottom? It's just that it breaks the convention of all previous games I've played - I keep moving the pointer to the top of the screen without thinking about it, then have to move to the bottom
* Speaking of the game controls, would it be possible to program in middle button/mouse wheel controls? Ie. the middle/mousewheel button toggling between walk and the last previously selected action, and the mouse wheel movements letting you cycle through the actions
* Places where I think a custom message would be appropriate:
Ã,  The second floor window at nighttime currently has no look message
Ã,  If you try using the knife on the stuck drawer in Manannan's bedroom (it would be logical for someone to try it to unstick the drawer)

EDIT: PS. I just read deltamatrix's post mentioning that he couldn't read the paper. This threw me at first until I realised I could "use" the paper to see it's contents. This action really should be mapped to look as well.