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The weather balloons don't need to look anything like a flying saucer for the Roswell incident to have occurred.     The most suspect "conspiracy" motivating factor was the government's retraction of a flying disk.


No one saw a weather balloon and mistook it for a UFO.   The government said they recovered a flying "disk"  & later changed their story to a weather balloon.   It wasnt the siting that caught people's eye.   It was the coverup.    But eric's link uncovers every aspect of the Roswell misunderstanding.

I think morality simulators are retarded.    I'll name "Fable"  as the worst attempt at choosing good or evil    Oblivion had some good applications.. such as not being able to join the Fighters Guild once your Infamy hit a certain point.   But anything beyond that in a game is tedious & distracting.


Character development!   A good example is Syberia.

Kate Walker spends all this time on telephone calls with her mom, fiancee, best friend, and boss.   She is obviously just a business minded woman who couldnt give a shit about this small town she's visiting.  All she wants is to please her employer back in New York.   But over the course of the game she becomes captivated by the story of Hans Valburg and his inventions and ultimately she makes a choice between the two worlds.

So I would say that Syberia really worked hard on character development.  You actually do see Kate Walker's change from not caring to caring.    The only question is whether or not they sacrificed gameplay for all this development.


More good development:   The scene in Fate of Atlantis after Indy gets Sophia's attention with the Nur Ab Sol puppet.   In one scene you set up Indy's relationship with her,   their past, and the problems between them.     

Character development is definitely important.     You are correct that few games have it.   I wouldn't isolate adventure games either.



But character development isn't about obvious changes in personality & stature.   Its more about the choices characters make.      And in adventure games the player makes thousands of tiny little choices.   This really doesnt count.     You might be on to something here though.    Good stories usually set up circumstances and conditions for its main characters.. and throughout the story you see the character arc where they are challenged for the specific conditions you've established.    This would really make the story strong if more AGSers did this.

As an example I can say Grundislav developes Ben Jordan characters really well.    Ben might be starting to fall in love with someone, which becomes an emotional investment for the player.   Then the girl disappears and the player feels empathy for Ben.   That's good stuff.    It's hard to create good characters and be subtle about it.   I would encourage more people to make outlines for their games...including character "roller coasters"  where good and bad things happen to them.  There's the obvious physical dangers but those really don't have any weight unless the player is emotionally invested.

I second that link.  In fact I will repost it.    I've been talking about this video for the past five days.   


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2334857802602777622

According to Phil's facebook he actually LIVES in Florida these days. 



Maybe we should all chip in & buy his airfare.

they say if you don't believe that the body of christ is in the wine and that cookie thing, you shouldn't partake anyway

THE COMMUNION WAFER IS NOT A COOKIE!!!!! IT IS NOT TO BE TRIVIALIZED!!!!!!!!!

http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=1855


Having said that,  I buy the body of Christ in bulk.    Tasting is believing!

http://www.amazon.com/Communion-Wafers-Box-of-1000/dp/0805470859

Eric, thanks for Muller's lecture.    Dont know why I havent seen articles about the declassification.     Explanation rocked my socks off.

taking the god out of 'godfather'.... technically that makes you his father.

I'm not certain that "godfather" is anything to feel hypocritical of.   Whose godfather actually taught them christianity and made them stick to it?   Whose parents here even did that?   Its just a tradition that's meaningless.


Mostly makes you liable if the father dies.   

Interesting sidenote.      I probably never would have declared atheism if my grandmother were still alive.    She is the most churchgoing member of the family & would have keeled over had I said anything "in that direction"  in her lifetime.


Anyone else have family situation like that?

That guy blocked me from commenting!    HAHAHAHA.    I think its because I called him out on ignorance.

Stupot:   that's an interesting, and typical, way of boiling it down.

But it neglects the fact that agnostics & atheists are not organized.     Summing it up like that lends to the ignorance and misconceptions outsiders have towards both groups of people. 

I'm glad to clarify "weak atheist" & what that means every time I say it.  Because the last thing we need is more Christians who lump us into a pile with anarchists or nihilists.   Many of us have beliefs and queries that make us more spiritual than the average person.   Many of us explore God everyday & simply come to the contrary conclusion.

I like to discuss religion whereas many Christians may think an atheist simply revolts at the idea.    I would hate to sponsor that misconception, or add to it... by encouraging such a rudimentary explanation.

Moox, I have trouble responding here because my intent is not to challenge your religion.

That was sort of the point of the thread.  To avoid such things.   It would be a contradiction I think for me to go after your throat and persecute this or that when I have my own beliefs I feel I should be protected of having.     Sometimes however, I am up for a fiery debate. 

I suppose that's why threads with any religion at all, always turn into the same thing.    Somebody, somewhere wants a fiery debate.


Eric:   The title & website really turned me off.   Like... that would be really fucking bold.   But I was thinking a fictional piece tackling contradictions could be good.   I don't know.   The thing about two brothers, one in heaven and one in hell could be good. 

Spaceboy: the amputee question is a good one.  thanks for presenting it to me

lol, all this "white power" stuff directed at the japanese.

----edit.  Challenge removed--

Aliens are easier to believe in than ghosts and unicorns.   But Im not so sure Roswell means a damned thing.

"You have to make mixed drinks twice as strong, otherwise they don't show up on film - Kevbot"

Hahahahahahaha.   Ive had my head buried in the GEN GEN forum.  I didnt realize a North American Mittens was going down!   

eric:   I'm not as shy anymore.   Im working on happiness.   At least I'm getting somewhere as a human being because I'm no longer a little kid that runs around and agrees with everything.   That was always my problem.   I cared what everyone thought of me.   So maybe I didn't even believe ever.  The right expression is that I "played along."   

What Ive found is how selfish a person I am.   My fear of death, my jealousy of friends and loved ones, my wanting of an afterlife.   So opening my eyes to atheism actually does give hope.    To live life the right way.   I actually did abstain from sex and girls for all of high school and most of college.    It wasn't out of belief but the pride interpreted from what I  thought others gained from belief.   

One of my best revelations came to me when my sister left me a message.  She said one of her dogs had died.   Selfishly I didnt call her back.  In my delusion,  I deeply felt that if I didnt call I would be keeping all of those dogs alive.   It was comforting.. because calling was to doom one dog to die.   And I realized that's what heaven is.  Its the delusion that things don't really die.   But everything dies.  You have to face it.


My favorite atheist died while I was reading his books.  That's the only despair I have felt thus far.   When my guide to humanity up and quit.

Well its just a matter of time before the theologies start to boil.   I guessed that coming into this thread.   But a part of me did hope as a world minority we'd get some good shared experiences going.   I even like the Christian experiences...  but I hope all challenges can be put aside for whatever afterlife thread pops up later this week.   

I never would have openly said I was an atheist.   There's just no need to.     But one christmas my brother actually started digging into me and was goading me on.   I soon after declared myself atheist.

I had been an agnostic out of courtesy.    My family doesn't want me to go to hell.  But here I was with my brother...during Christmas... and he keeps digging and digging.   Laughing like he's got some bet with God.    Now what's the point in isolating me?  There are only two scenarios:

1.    We interact with each other until we die.   Then there is nothing and we never see each other again.

2.   We interact with each other until we die.   My brother relaxes and drinks martinis in heaven while I burn in a lake of fire.  My brother is in paradise...oh except he can never see his brother anymore.  He's damned for all eternity.   That's heaven.  Knowing your friends and loved ones are forever in agony.