Messages

Panda, don't you think there is something fundamentally flawed with your point?

I agree with you completely, sort of.

We don't know enough to make those decisions on bill "214". But THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Some bill is being passed that will affect our lives yet we know nothing about it. Why? Because the news is filled with "somebody died", "something burned", and "look over there stupid person!" instead of "the Senate passed law 214 today, law 214 was about...blah, blah, blah."

There are many of us that are not only intelligent, but fairly well informed, that don't know what's going on in our own backyard. It is buried in legal speak. I'm willing to bet if you put bill 214 in front of me I STILL wouldn't be able to understand it.

You shouldn't need a degree in anything to understand a simple law.

That is why I feel that the government is bloated. We are passing laws everyday. Laws about what!? Do you get an update? No, because you aren't supposed to know about these laws, because you are supposed to be dumb. Which is what the government wants you to be. At least "dumb" of what is going on at your local Senate.

Americans really need to smarten up. It's all a matter of "programming". If we are fed knowledge we gain knowledge. For some it may take longer than others. I guess my point is that dumb people are only dumb because they are uneducated. If you educate them properly...well, you get the point.

later,
-junc

Hey Rode, excellent design.

One problem, perhaps I'm just missing it, but if I want to read your first comic I have to hit the previous button a bunch of times. Could you provide an index or Komak archive?

Other than that I think the layout is amazing. Everything looks superb.

later,
-junc

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that so generally. You not only the right to, but should complain about your way of life. No one should be satisfied with their way of life, or the way of life of others around them. The world is not a nice place and if we just sat back and said "it's better than that other place" then how would good ever come of anything. Like I said (perhaps you didn't have time to read the other post) I just don't agree with your presentation.

I see Socialism as more of an idea to strive for. Sure, it doesn't work and some of the ideas are flawed, but why not strive to come close to eliminating problems in the world? If we make it half way to the ideas that I strive for then we will be doing pretty good. Socialism just presents a better vehicle than anything else I have ever found for those ideas. If someone could present something better then I would consider it. But, so far, no one has.

later,
-junc

This seems to be the prevailing arguement, so let me address a few things.

You don't think you should pay out money to people that you don't "give two shits about"

Actually, I agree.

Problem is we both ALREADY DO.

We pay taxes to support a bloated government and military. We pay for vacations to the bahamas for politicians, jets, limos, etc. (Regardless of what country you live in you pay taxes).

I just think that we don't get enough in return. For example, about 10 years ago Canadians paid $5 for a pack of cigarettes, this is because they get national health care. It is paid for by taxes of cigarettes. Do you know what my American smoking family said to this: "I'm not paying $5 for a pack of cigarettes!". My girlfriend pays $3.15 for a pack of smokes. Twice as much as the cost 10 years ago. Yet, we STILL don't have a national health care system in America.

By the way, Barick, I do think that 60% is insane. If that much is taken away you should already have socialist programs and more. You should deffinately live in a more peaceful country. I agree that your government is failing you and that your family is treated unfairly, I just don't agree with the way you present the arguement.

I don't want to see what you or anyone work for get taken away. I just want to see it used more wisely. We pay (the world's citizens) insane amounts of taxes. These things should be provided to us in compensation for our tax dollars. I don't think taxes should be raised or changed. I think some politicians should be forced to go from meeting to meeting in Yugos, go on vacation in New Jersey, and take the bus.

Citizens shouldn't sacrifice, politicians, the government should.

later,
-junc

Barcik: "buy a 300,000$+ house" ...WHAT!?!? And you are crying about WHAT!? Please tell me that the israeli dollar is worth an American penny or something. You cannot possibly be complaining about your way of life and live in a $300,000 home. If you don't like paying so much in taxes, sell the house and move. This is the reason why I lean towards socialism so much. People that live excessively complaining about people that didn't "study hard enough, work hard enough and try hard enough". That's such bullshit. Some people are just smarter than others. If you work a crap job and that's all you can get then you shouldn't be punished for that. Some of us do not have the opportunities that maybe you do.

Try this on Barcik: Growing up in the Flint Michigan there was only one way to succedde. Work in the factory. I went to a very rough high school and saw every one of my freinds beaten up because of the color of their skin. I am a little guy and was harrased but, somehow managed to avoid getting hurt too bad. I dropped out of high school and later got my GED (a dumb man's diploma in America). I was told that a GED is useless. I didn't know what to do. I wanted to go to college but my parents wouldn't help me. I was stuck. Factories were closing so that option was running dry. I talked to an army recruiter for a while until I realized I just couldn't do that. So, I got a job at McDonald's. I worked my ass off, and got NOTHING for it. Finally, while at a bar one night I met a guy that offered for me to travel to Columbus, Ohio with him. He was going to medical school. I went along, having known the guy for about 3 weeks. I ended up in a new city without family or friends. The guy I moved to Columbus with got his girlfriend pregnant and ended up moving back to Flint (by the way he was in medical school and dropped out to work in a pizza shop). I stayed. Only through the generosity of a few people did I manage to pull it together. I spent some time homeless, got another job at McDonald's and lived in someones basement. Finally, I began to learn about student loans. People told me I could go to school for free! No advisors in school ever said anything about it, my parents never said anything about it, why hadn't anyone told me about school loans!? So, now, my life has slowly come back together over the past 7 or 8 years. I am in school and working at a cafe as a cook. I have tried many different ways to make enough money to buy a house, car and all that (truck driving being one big mistake). But, here I am, 29 years old and in college with a bunch of 18 year olds. It sucks. If something happens, like my girlfriend getting pregnant, I will have to leave school and work some shit job. I DO NOT have the opportunities that some people have. I did not grow up in a $300,000 dollar house. I have worked hard and struggled all of my life. I'm not the smartest guy in the world. But, guess what Barcik, I still deserve to have a roof over my head, to have medical insurance, and live a decent life.

Andail: Hmmm...you are one of those people I was hoping would post in this thread. That is enlightning to say the least. What is a Social Democracy? Is that what is failing, or is the move closer to capitalism causing deteriorating conditions?

later,
-junc

Wow. I must be immensely stupid .

As soon as I saw the dice I got it.

I imagine this would be much more difficult if it were real dice in front of you and someone was standing there looking at you, waiting for you to figure it out.

I'm usually really bad at things like this. It honestly makes me wonder if I've seen it before and just forgotten.

later,
-junc

Two things always come up when I mention the world Socialism:

1. Communism
2. Lack of faith in humanity

Basically, I guess it's time I re-evaluate the way I present my argument for Socialism. So here is another try.

As I said, I believe that Socialism should be used in social programs while capitalism is used in economic programs. As a few people pointed out, when you have a large populatoin, Socialism is doomed.

Oppression is a constant concern of mine regarding Socialism. I think so many people around the world are unaware about the oppression that occurs right in front of them. In America we are led to believe that we have certain freedoms. Namely, Freedom of Speech. This is a myth, it is impossible to have freedom of speech, you are always going to offend someone. So, we have Limited Freedom of Speech. I have no problem with this, but I'd rather hear it like it is than get pumped full of American propaganda. American's think that they are freer than any other nation in the world and that there is no better place to live in the world. I often hear the "If you don't like it here go move to ______" (whatever country we are invading at the moment). Wrong again. Why should I just sit around and be content!? Why should anyone? What's the point of having freedoms if you don't use them? America is not perfect; nowhere in the world is perfect. Humans should strive to make every place they live in closer to perfect (perfect is a bad choice of words, but I hope you get the point).

My point is, that many people are oppressed by the very freedom that is meant to set them free.

I see very little wrong with the American system. It's just too bad that we have strayed so far from it that it is no longer recognizable.

I still stand by a popular vote. Any other vote is not a vote by the people. Oh, and just because someone is dumb, doesn't mean that they don't have the right to vote.

I still stand by a free national health care system; anything else should be considered human rights abuses by our country. We have the means to implement a national health care system yet so many people are unable to receive even basic healthcare (first person to bring up free clinics as a defense in America has to pull out one tooth with a hammer and some kite string).

Housing. Every day I see abandoned building after abandoned building. They sit for years. Yet, all around there is homelessness, evictions, etc. Once again, we have the ability why not use it. I think everyone is entitled to a home. My only problem here is "section 8" housing, I don't want to create a mirror of that situation (for those not from America, section 8 housing is cheap government assisted housing that African Americans were herded into (in the 70's & 80's?), kind of in Nazi ghetto style, which is responsible for "livin' in the ghetto", being a term associated with living in a all black neighborhood. Then of course no one maintains the housing and it falls to shit. Also these areas were built when discrimination was much more rampant in America. African Americans had difficulty finding decent jobs and ended up living in section 8 housing. Only recently have African Americans begun to be able to stand on slightly more equal footing, however this is largely due in part to American racism being shifted to Mexicans).

I think that business also needs to be reevaluated. America needs to concentrate more on producing goods for itself. We need renewable resources and jobs at home. Business need to be removed from government and made less private. Once a business reaches a certain value it should be subject to more strict laws, forcing it to mainly just open it's doors. Records and operations should be more a matter of public record. I strongly oppose government owned business (a huge misconception in my mind of what Socialism is, I've seen many dictionaries and heard many people define it this way. As a basic definition I interpret Socialism as an "economic theory or system in which production should be for the public good rather than private profit").

I'm shocked that so many people just shoot down Socialism. Granted, as a stand-alone government I agree that it would fail. As a way to describe my belief system, I think Socialism is a good word. I am deeply saddened by the prevailing lack of faith in humanity. It do not think that all people are greedy and evil. Pau made such a great point; it's all a matter of education. Capitalism and greed walk hand in hand, until we de-emphasize capitalism in our system we will remain greedy.

Sorry for the American slant on this, I hope you can apply it to your own countries, or at least relate somehow. Obviously, America has screwed with my mind

later,
-junc

Just read better!

Minime, please don't scold me for something that you didn't do. I was making a general statement. It wasn't directed at anyone. It was directed at an issue.

I know that you released your source, but only after you attempted to release a game in a open source competition without open sourcing it!

Regardless, I think it brings up a few things.

One, people are interested in seeing open source projects.
Two, there aren't too many.
Three, what happens when people don't follow the rules in MAGS? I smell anarchy! (actually I think Klaus handled this really well, and like he said, it's about fun)

So, perhaps CJ will read this. Could we maybe have a open source category added to the games page? Perhaps as a cross category (is that too difficult to do, or time consuming).

later,
-junc

Wow.

That's really sad that people are so wacky about open sourcing a project. I mean, AGS is free after all, and so are your games...Your not going to lose any money. I guess I just don't get it.

Anyway, just so those that are posting here and hoping for some source code from some games, I posted the source to all of my games a while back. It didn't get much of a response so I don't think many people know about it. It includes the full source for Keptosh, which was Nominated for Best Game and Best Sound/Music in the 2003 AG Underground Awards.

http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?topic=12149.0

later,
-junc

Is this perhaps the reason that nothing changed after the first Gulf War?

It isn't the only reason, but yes. Our mission wasn't finished when we pulled out of the first gulf war. If we hadn't gone back it would have been a second Vietnam. People like to say that we completed our "objective" and protected Kuwait. That's just not true. Bush Sr. painted Saddam as a villian and went after him with full force, and failed. Kuwait was an excuse, an invitation.

Farlander: That is a frightening theory. Perhaps not too far off. I think the "right" and "left" gets a little blurry when you start talking about the military. Perhaps the military sees that it can get more out of Kerry than Bush. Kerry's Vietnam record is a little questionable, by his own admission. The military could have something to manipulate him with. A more likely theory is that Bush is an idiot. Sure he's probably easy to push around but he lacks respect for the military (only the military actually knows the truth about him going AWOL, and even Bush's version of the story is pretty much a "pussy's story" from the military point of view). Bush also has proven to be abrasive toward other countries, I sure that is just a small reflection of how he is in person. If he pisses off rulers of countries you can just imagine how many five star generals he's pissed off. Maybe he pissed off the wrong one.

All in all I think the theory is probably too far fetched. Then again, maybe not...

later,
-junc

EDIT: Another Military/Media story of interest: Did you know in the first gulf war, at the start of the war, what was being watched on TV was a staged operation? The US Military admitted that it mounted an attack (which it knew it could win) as a diversion for the media. While at the same time they launched another attack which was their real objective.

I met a girl from Romania last summer. Her family left Romania because her father couldn't find work. He had a steady job under the Communist government and they were rather well off. He is now a city bus driver in Columbus, Ohio (not the best paying or funnest job in the world).

Another thing she told me. In Romania she used to eat whatever she wanted, never worried about diet. Within a month of living in America and eating the same things she gained a lot of weight. We load our vegetables and, well everything, with so many preservatives and what not. It's really annoying to hear things like that. We are so bloated and stuck in how we do things that we don't consider our health, environment, or future.

I always tend to hear stories like this from Republics of the Soviet Union. I wonder if it was just republics that have citizens that feel that way.

The Romanian girl said she would prefer to live in Romania under Communism to living in America or a Romania as it is today. Would you or your family?

later,
-junc

[learn]

[lgm] & Evil: I believe there must be a way to integrate Democracy and Socialism in such a way that the dangers of dictatorship do not arise. This is the most major failing point of all forms of socialism, and a big reason why I won't just outright proclaiming myself a Socialist.

DGMacphee: I feel very alone in my world of Socialism. I too, hate 90% of the socialists I encounter. Revolution is often the topic in mind, often violent. Most revolution is non-violent, it is the attempt by the overthrown government to regain power which causes most violence. Most Socialists know this, yet they preach violence as a means to establishing Socialism. This is a quick way to Dictatorship in my opinion. Violent revolution will lead to a violent government.

LostTraveler: I believe that welfare in America is a corrupt and broken system. It keeps people in poverty and unemployment, often offering them more financial reward for remaining an unproductive member of society. By military benefits do you mean spending? I think the usefulness of Special Forces are really overlooked by the current generation of military top brass that served in Vietnam, where Special Forces were hated. It is amazing how 10 to 20 Special Forces men can do the same kind of damage that thousands of soldiers can do, at least politically.

Your comment that nobody should ever be unemployed therefore seems not very intelligent or not very well thought out.

socialism sucks

Are you trying to insult me!? What the heck was that? Not very constructive and not open minded at all.

Jeez. :

Regarding unemployment: Of course there is a period of job placement but, I don't see that as unemployment. You latched onto that a little bit too literally. There are plenty of people in America that are more than willing and skilled enough to work that do not have jobs. This is rarely due to a lack of work. There are many factors in American society that result in skilled and willing workers to go without employment. As I said, I am open with my opinions and agree that "should NEVER exist" was a bad choice of words.

Regarding hunger: This is where I start to scare people when I talk about Socialism...I go back and forth on this so don't latch onto this one either:

I believe that people that do not participate in society, through work or education, should be eliminated from society.

However, this sort of psycho thinking wouldn't matter if humans would just evolve to a point where they don't have to be so selfish and think things like: "money isn't going straight to themself". I strongly believe that we have become intelligent enough and more aware of the world around us in the past century that we could reach this point. I feel that capitalism has reinforced this type of self centered thinking.

Regarding your general statements on Socialism: This is why I have problems with Socialism. It's not rock solid. I believe that Socialism has it's place in social systems while capitalism has it's place in economic systems. Unlike every Socialist I have encountered, I do not absolutely dismiss capitalism.

I hope that you will reconsider your attacks on me (that is how I interpeted your post, perhaps you didn't mean it that way). I started this topic to learn, not preach.

later,
-junc

I have some pretty strong political ideas. It is hard for me to find a definition for them, but I tend to relate to the Socialist party more than any other.

Basically, I feel that every human being is entitled to food, shelter, health care, and other necessities of modern life. I feel that unemployment should NEVER exist; there is a job for every human. I feel that hunger should NEVER exist; there is surplus food for every starving human. I feel that the government should provide these things and more to EVERY human. I feel that each human should be able to cast his or her individual vote and have it count toward the final vote (popular vote). I feel that nearly every government decision should be made by popular vote (we have the technology to do this).

Is this Socialism? It is my Socialism. I look at Socialism and Socialist ideas and only find links to communism and failed ideas. This is not what I consider Socialism. Hitler and Stalin were no where NEAR Socialist in anything that they did. Communism is not even remotely related to Socialism (at least in the way that it is practiced in this century).

1. What do you think of Socialism?
2. What do you think my form of Socialism is?
3. If you live in a Socialist country or under a Socialist leader, what are your opinion of it?
4. What are your opinions of Socialism throughout history?
5. What are your opinions of Socialist leaders and countries in the world today?
6. Do you think Socialism could ever succeed in the future?

I ask these questions here because these forums provide a doorway into a worldwide opinion. I am currently working on a project that your replies may affect, so please try to keep things constructive. I would like to learn and always leave my opinions on Socialism open; I hope you will do the same (if not in life, at least in this thread).

later,
-junc

[really]

DGMacphee: You are wonderful.

Farlander: That is why I love America Farlander. When the citizens of this country do something good, they really do something good. America is full of a lot of good people that truly care about world. The approval rating of our current occupation in Iraq has only recently reached a low level. I think a majority of Americans agree that removing Saddam from power is a good thing. A majority of American soldiers in Iraq are over there doing as much good as they can.

There are bad eggs though. We cannot turn our backs on that and say that it is okay, it is NOT. It is not acceptable, regardless as to how much good we do (I know, that's not your point). We have done our good in Iraq and it is now time to wrap things up and leave, in fact, it has been time for several months. Our occupation of Iraq is causing problems and deaths. It is time for the UN to step in. Our job is finished.

However, the few, the rich and corrupt, have more "business" to tend to over there. American soldiers know that it is time to come home. When you develop a situation where soldiers do not FULLY support what they are doing you develop very dangerous men(and women). These are the circumstances that bring about the My Lai's and Abu Ghraib's in war. The fact that the US Goverment is aware of this situation and is not immediately pulling out its troops is appalling.

The first gulf war ended very quickly after Iraqi media released images of a bombed Iraqi convoy. The US government has admitted that this dramatically sped up withdrawal from Iraq. Now we have another atroicity and this time our reaction is very different. Our government is quick to shift blame to individual soldiers. Why?

Oh, and for those of you that keep on saying "this is war" REREAD this until you get it:

"The first gulf war ended very quickly after Iraqi media released images of a bombed Iraqi convoy. The US government has admitted that this dramatically sped up withdrawal from Iraq."

later,
-junc

There is something I agree with you on Sutebi.

For the most part.

I really don't think Bush or Kerry should be president. I also wouldn't mind giving Hillary a chance. Honestly though, I think she would get assassinated before she got there. Americans are not quite "evolved" enough for a female president yet. It think it's a shame.

I don't like Kerry either. However, for me my dislike of Bush outways that. If Kerry gets my vote, it will be a anti-Bush vote, and a pro-Kerry one. Once again the American government fails us. Two candidates, neither of which anyone likes.

I think most Americans agree with you and that Bush will get re-elected.

People just close their minds to things like the patriot act and the ignoring of evironmental issues with Bush. I just don't get it. Handing away your freedoms is VERY unamerican. Yet under this administration we have done just that, in the name of "fighting terrorism" and "patriotism". It's sad that this new version of "the war of communism" has been given the power it has. That power does nothing but give more terrorists support. They didn't have any allies before, now it's a "war". In war there are two sides. Good job world! (I say world because to be sure Bush isn't the only one responsible, Blair doesn't have to hold his hand, and neither does the rest of the world).

I think the Simpsons thing may have been intended to be ironic. However I must say that given the way our voting system is set up, it is a wasted vote. Which imagine that, in the "land of democracy", by voting, you can "throw your vote away!".

You mentioned before that we were badmouthing america Sutebi. You are wrong (and that is insulting). I am badmouthing people and situations that are ruining America. There is a HUGE difference.

later,
-junc

while 'claiming' to be doing it for thier religion, are not

I'm sorry but you can not assume that you know someone's religious beliefs. I'm sure that a majority of Muslims do NOT think that these people are going to paradise and agree with you. This doesn't change the fact that the few Muslim wackos that there are, are doing it because they believe they get something out of it. I'm not saying that it's the Muslim way, I'm saying that it's the "extremist muslim" way. While a lot of people seem to fail to see the difference, I feel that I do see it.

Someone brought up Hitler, Junc. Godwin's law in effect, so my argument prevails! Huzzah! Now this topic can smoothly melt into posts with more pictures of zany robots till it dissapears onto the pages of the past.

What!?

You are right because I brought up Hitler!?

Look, this isn't about who is right and who is wrong. If that is why you are posting, to prove that you are right, just stop.

I don't believe that everyone should believe what I believe. These are my opinions.

later,
junc

You assume to know a lot, but have you ever considered that maybe you don't know the whole story?

So these men in the prison are not "true" believers of the faith

So you personally know these men? How can you assume to know what a human's faith is!?

these men obviously do not care to stay "true" to their faith, because they kill others

By dying for their faith they secure a place in paradise. It's just a simple fact of their faith, not my opinion. Perhaps you are talking about what you believe Islam is. That's nice, but if these men believe that they earn their way into paradise by killing Americans, then they are staying true to the faith that "they" believe in, not "you".

Well, Bush (nor any in his administration) did not order these individuals to do those things in Abu Ghraib

While I agree, that this is probably the case, how do you KNOW that!?

Comparing what Saddam did to what we did just doesn't make any sense. We violated the world laws. We must be held accountable. You can't justify what we did with what Saddam did. That's just sick.

Also, I DO think Saddam is accountable. I don't know what or if he ordered anything to happen and I don't care. What I do care about is that it happened under his power, therefore he is responsible. The result of that is that we removed him from power, I agree that this is a good thing.

The highest ranking officer is accountable for the actions of his troops. That would be George Bush. People have been brainwashed into thinking that this is not his role. Also, keep in mind, I DO believe that the soldiers are responsible and should go to prison, I just think Bush should accept responsibility as well. It's just the right thing to do.

later,
-junc

I'm not looking to not be friends with anyone on the board

Silly monkey, I may disagree with you, but I still LOVE you

You did piss me off though...

Regarding "this is WAR", we are supposed to be a world power. This is supposed to be a "third world country" or at least it was considered one ten years ago. We should be setting the example, regardless of how we are treated. It isn't elementary school. No eye for an eye. That's childish crap. I don't know if the Geneva convention covers feeding pork specifically to Muslims. I do think it covers "FORCE FEEDING" which is what happened here. That's the problem. I wouldn't doubt that some Muslims would starve to death before eating pork. It's not that pork was the only thing to feed them, I'm sure the bastards went out of their way to find pork.

We're not out to rule the world.

I am truly and honestly beginning to wonder if everyone in the government is with you on that one.

I don't know anything about the situation with your friends, but if they were in the US Military and something happened to them, or they were doing drugs or whatever, then George W Bush failed your friends and you. He is the COMMANDER IN CHIEF, he ACCEPTED the responsibilty, he is reponsible by his own choice. I'm not just pulling that out of my ass. He just IS responsible for America and it's Military. From the highest ranking general to the greenest private.

Did you read my quote a few posts back? Doesn't it frighten you that the leader of our country doesn't think he "needs to explain" things to people!? It just scream Dictator to me. I am seriously concerned about the future of this country. This statement went by and nothing happened. It's just absurd.

Back in 1958, Sherman Adams, a former governor of New Hampshire serving as President Dwight Eisenhower's chief of staff, was forced to resign after it was reported that he received a gift from business interests. The "smoking gun" was a pricey vicuña overcoat.

Forced to resign over a coat? Yet our president talks like a mad man and we just say..."so."

eh.



Sorry, I'm not good at funny robots... :'(

later,
-junc

EDIT:

So, in the minds of this guys, they may have problems for being forced to eat something, but not to blast 20 or 30 people in a Bus? Curious...

Yes. Not just in my mind. By blowing up 20 or 30 people in a bus some militant Muslims believe that they in fact secure their place in paradise by dying to protect Allah. I don't agree with it or think it's sane, but that's the belief as I understand it.

Keep in mind though, this is SOME militant muslims. ALL Muslims believe that eating pork is wrong.

and to the hitler comment...

No. No it's not. Bush is the Commander in Chief, he IS the superior officer.

Okay, I will admit that I have some problems with what they feed them. But at least we are feeding them well.

What the F**K is wrong with you!? That's not funny. It is a violation of their religion. Those men, if they are truly faithful to Allah, are not going to paradise(in least in their minds, which is all that matters).

I think today's key word is indeed: "accountability" as DG points out.

To repeat my quote from a few posts earlier:

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain -- I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the intersting thing about being the president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why the say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation."

-President George W. Bush

My point is leaders are supposed to take responsibility. Our government, no...Americans, do not take responsibility for the actions of it's army, it's represenatives to the world.

I feel guilty about what happened to those people. I am an American, and Americans did horrible things, I should share the guilt, as should ALL Americans. Especially our number one citizen.

later,
-junc