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Congrats on the release Danbrush and Bengo LeWard!

I can confirm it's awesomeness btw

Congrats on the release Danbrush and Bengo!

I can confirm it's awesomeness btw

Not abandoned, and never will be. Just getting kinda put to the side all the time. We keep picking it back up but then other short term things come around and it ends up getting shelved again.

We'll get it done eventually.

Busted. I am a bit of a code language fascist, I grant you. I am right though. :p See my follow-up post for evidence.

[Assembly programmer]

I don't see how pure object orientation is better than a multi-paradigm language like C++. I like object orientation, but sometimes a linear solution is better or less expensive. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that it's much easier to fall into the trap of writing unnecessarily resource-hogging software in OOP. I'd think that learning C++ you understand more how things are done in the background and you're able to tell which method will run faster.

Don't forget we've been through this same situation three times now.

Assembly programmer: Boo! C is too slow. You're not in control of what's going on under the bonnet and it lets you do stuff that's a resource hog! Assembly is FAST!
C programmer: But Assembly is so fiddly to do anything in! With C you can make really easy to read code, and can accomplish better things faster because you can tackle programming problems at a higher level with more powerful language features! This makes the slower code execution worthwhile.

A few years later....

C programmer: Boo! C++ is too slow. You're not in control of what's going on under the bonnet and it lets you do stuff that's a resource hog! C is FAST!
C++ programmer: But C is so fiddly to do anything in! With C++ you can make really easy to read code, and can accomplish better things faster because you can tackle programming problems at a higher level with more powerful language features! This makes the slower code execution worthwhile.

A few years later...

C++ programmer: Boo! C# is too slow. You're not in control of what's going on under the bonnet and it lets you do stuff that's a resource hog! C++ is FAST!
C# programmer: But C++ is so fiddly to do anything in! With C# you can make really easy to read code, and can accomplish better things faster because you can tackle programming problems at a higher level with more powerful language features! This makes the slower code execution worthwhile.

"All this has happened before, and it will happen again"

I don't really understand what you are saying. Does C# not allow global variables and other nasty habits? I wouldn't know, because I didn't get into it. But when I was learning the basics, my professor(s) would insist on this matter: "This is how you do it, but DON'T do it", to sum it up. Even so, something always exists for a reason, and sometimes things like macros or global variables can be a powerful tool when you know how to use them wisely.

C# allows global variables, and we we're taught "this is how you do it but don't do it" too. We are just taught better ways of calling variables outside a class.

No C# doesn't. It's got the same strict OOP principals as Java, everything must be inside a class.

That's why it's the better starting place, if not somewhere just to stick around once you've learnt it. If you do C++ first you would probably, unless taught, end up making globals everywhere, then going to a proper OOP language and getting confused as the entire way you think about how programs are put together is vastly different, even though the syntax is very similar.

There can be no argument that OOP is a better way to code than procedural and at some point in the future OOP (or some evolution of it) will be all there is. Even scripting languages are going that way. If you're wanting to learn programming now, it'd be a good idea to learn OOP programming and all the principals that go with it. But despite this being perfectly possible in C++, because of its backwards compatibility with C it's got a lot of weirdness which goes outside OOP which means when learning you're almost guaranteed to learn at best some hybrid form of programming where you will use C disciplines and C++ disciplines together. This will make it very difficult to unlearn all these things when you do move to a pedegree OOP language.

I'm not being down on C++ for the sake of it. I was a huge advocate of C++ at places I've worked that were strictly C orientated. Just now is the cusp of the transition from C++ to whatever's next, and regardless of my feelings for MS I really think C# is going to be it. It's already managed to become a viable mainstream game development platform, something Java has never really managed to do (unless you could browser games or mobile phone games), and it'd be a good idea to become familiar with it now instead of playing catch-up later. IMO.

re: Macros, globals etc. They are of course massively useful 'if used right', but certainly for a beginner with no formal tuition from someone telling them to avoid them they are tempting to the point that you're almost guaranteed to fall into the habit of using them excessively. They're very easy to abuse and I personally don't miss them now I've moved to C#. it provides so much more powerful language features that compensate for this ten-fold, and as they're all tightly bound within OOP principals they are pretty hard to abuse in the same way.

cout << "...But I'd rather learn C++ first." << endl;

It's less painful learning C++ first and then C# / Java, than the other way around.

No no no. Surely not? How? When? Why? :S

So 1) when you're introduced to all the insane weirdness of a C / C++ hybrid you are a complete newcomer, and when you learn a similar yet more elegant language second and have loads of bad habits you've learnt of creating global variable or whatever that you have to unlearn.

Or 2) you learn a next gen language that's proper OOP, designed well and enforces good code design, has no C legacy hang ups,. And then once you've got a handle on all that, and comfortable with C#, go on to learn things like pointers and manual deletion,  to make a MUCH more sizeable jump to learn all the quirks and weirdness of C++ and use it like it's supposed to be used.

And also he's less likely to get frustrated learning it and abandon the plan altogether.

No way. Definitely would be better off learning C# first, IMO.

Just for the record, I've also thus far stuck with C++ because "see-sharp" is a very silly name for a programming language.

Just cause we're so used to C++ as a name it sounds fine to us, and because it makes sense in context of the programming language, are you trying to tell me See-Plus-Plus is any better? :p

As far as the foreach, does it support a way of getting the key (like PHP's foreach does)?

Nah, but then they're general purpose for any kind of container, including those with no key. It's easily made up for by the sexy awesomeness of Linq though...

Tell me this isn't awesome!

var  screenObjects = new List<ScreenObjects>();

// ... when it's full of objects ...

var objectsInTopHalfOfScreen =
        from o in screenObjects
        where o.Y < 240
        orderby o.Y
        select o;

foreach(var item in objectsInTopHalfOfScreen)
{
    // objectsInTopHalfOfScreen contains a list of all objects in the top half of the screen, ordered by their Y position...

}

LINQ is awesome.

And Extension Methods are amazing:

http://nandokakimoto.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/c-extension-methods/

And Properties too:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/w86s7x04.aspx

whoops! Sorry, fair point!

First off make sure you get this:

http://www.microsoft.com/express/vcsharp/

a free, slightly cut down version of Visual Studio which is by far the best IDE to use for C# development. (apart from the full Visual Studio, obv)

For general non-game C# tutorials:

http://www.csharp-station.com/Tutorial.aspx
http://www.softsteel.co.uk/tutorials/cSharp/cIndex.html

If it's games programming you're after doing in it, then have a look at XNA. There's a ton of great samples, starter kits and tutorials on the xna site:

http://creators.xna.com/en-GB/education/gettingstarted
http://creators.xna.com/en-GB/education/catalog/
http://creators.xna.com/en-GB/education/starterkits/

There's a few on our site but as of yet they're all very situational or specific, and not a general introduction to the language for total newcomers, but you might want to pop by later on into your journey.

Also, I'm preeeetty sure it is C-Sharp :p

While we're on the subject...I was just wondering, does C# have the limitation for ... parameters that you may only pass POD types? As part of one of the exercises, I was writing a custom string type. The exercise was simply looking for basic constructors and operators, but I of course wanted to provide a full class. The only snag I ever really hit was in that I couldn't pass my type through ... without having to retrieve the internal char*.

You can do this in C#:

void MyMethod(params string[] names)
{
    foreach (string name in names)
    {
         Console.WriteLine("The Name is:{0}.",name);
    }
}

MyMethod("bob", "tom", "harry");
MyMethod("bob", "tom");
MyMethod("bob");

Furthermore you can do:

void MyMethod(params MyThing[] objects)
{
    foreach (MyThing obj in objects)
    {

    }
}

Bleh. Let's put it this way: No one will ever be coding holo-deck simulations in assembler. :p

What would take a day to code in C++ can often be done in a couple of hours with C#.

Exactly. and to take the estimations further, what can take a year to code in C++ can often be done in a couple of months in C#.

I'll never look back... not unless I have to anyway.

NP Sorry if I get overly vocal on the subject. It pains me so many are missing out / not giving MS their dues for C#/XNA/.NET Framework. It's the best thing they've ever done by a massive massive margin, and evil corporation or not, I'll defend them to the hilt on this one as they've done a top job with it in practically every single respect.

[incredible]

"A great drawback of C# is that you limit yourself to one OS. That doesn't sound very important, as you can safely say that programming for Windows will enable your programs to run on a LOT of computers, but for an indie developer it counts a lot to have good cross-platform support. C# is also quite a resource hog, and it isn't that much easier to learn. You get better WYSIWYG tools, but that's about it. Depending on how serious you are about learning a programming lingo, it is generally agreed that C/C++ are standards you can't ignore."

I couldn't disagree more. Sure you're limited to only Windows (and XBox, of course!) But C# is an incredible language, MUCH MUCH MUCH easier to learn than C++, not is not *that* much of a resource hog unless you're running a Pentium 166 or something...

I've been programming games in C++ in the games industry for over 10 years, and at this time I pretty much NEVER want to do C++ again if I can help it because I love C# so much.

And learning C# will make it a cinch to move over to C++ once you've got that figured out.

As a language I can't recommend it enough. XNA is also completely amazing in every respect*.

*Except for a bit of a faff making an installer that works on everyone's machines, and Shader 1.1 requirement, but they're a small price to pay for the opportunity for XBox homebrew.

All the anti-M$ crap has clouded a lot of people's minds IMHO. Speaking from experience C#/XNA is the best game development platform ever made by a factor of 10, and if you're gonna fumble through archaic Allegro just because you don't want Microsoft to have your 'custom' then that's a real shame.

I should also point out that the guy who MADE Allegro has since abandoned it and was himself involved in the development of XNA at MS, and he is an amazing resource for XNA developers. The community is great, there's a TON of libraries already and more all the time.

I think it's an ideal choice for your first language. Perhaps the most ideal as it combines power, ease of use, with a highly elegant and proper object orientated language that's gonna learn you good programming disciplines. All these reactionary 'cooker cutter' arguments against it I see all the time, and few of them hold water and are in my experience largely uninformed.

Hello!


Re: Indie Dev forums, theres always this one:

http://theindiestone.com/

An infant yet growing indie game development blog / community with a slightly silly twist, made by myself, Binky and the lovely MashPotato. There's a few tutorials there currently and more in the works, dev questions and usual randomness, with a supporting cast of lovable souls such as the almighty Nikolas of Greece, amongst others.

I feel I should nominate Ben There, Dan That as a worthy candidate:




In the categories:

Best Game
Best Dialogue
Best Gameplay
Best Puzzles
Best Animations (those walkcycles! )
Best Documentation
Best Non-Player Character (Mia, who has appeared in many more other games than the actual game she's meant to appear in )
Most Controversial Use of Disabled Dinosaurs

I'd also like to nominate Forgotten Element in the category of "Most Lazy Developers", and "Beauties And Beasts":



in the Best Short Game award.

Thank you!

lemmy

Aw thanks mash you're like our official PR girl or something

Also if anyone would be kind enough to give us a little digg it would really help us out publicise the game:

http://digg.com/pc_games/Herbert_West_in_Carrion_Re_Animating

Thanks everyone for the lovely support! We'll get back on TFE soon!

love,

L&B

Just a quick post to say I've put up another version that may help with some of the crash problems as well as a warning about the firewall popup and why it happens

Thanks all!

lemmy

Thanks!

Online highscores. We had it only pop up the firewall thing when you said yes to upload, but it caused lockups so we had to put it at the start before the game has got going. was a bit worried about it but not much alternative

Well officially we obviously weren't inspired by the copyrighted film, but the public domain short stories...

But then...

Progz that problem is fixed in latest.  Zombies aren't supposed to attack the copper, the game's meant to end if he hits a zombie... but since my copper class is derived from the visitor class... somehow it must have slipped though. Doh.

Thanks everyone!