Messages

I like your edit Daniel (of my piece), any idea neat idea how to do it without pulling the camera back? I already feel like I want to be closer to the scene, so pulling back further feels so n so.

Edit: Btw, it's really nice to see people trying out value sketches, and the improvements that I've seen so far are quite substantial, so nice going with the comments everyone! I'll try to contribute over the weekend as much as possible, and apologies if I haven't replied to any critique of my piece, I've just had a very busy week.

Regarding the exits:

I think we should try to follow the script as closely as possible.

It's nice that the script involves some tricky stuff, because it pushes us to help each other, instead of cruising along on our own.

I'm having issues with the south exit myself and I think it's good if we try to come up with solutions to this mutual problem instead of dodging it.

I do think however think that Daniel's solution works quite well, perhaps could be more titled southwards, but I don't think it needs to be completely vertically south.

Ben's solution is borderline as well I guess, but I think it's more about getting the sense that you're coming from the angle of the camera, or thereabouts.

Edit: I'm short on time on weekdays, so I mostly have time to sketch, but will try to put in some comments.

Good to see you join in Daniel!

This morning's crop:

Started my first sketch this morning:

I've updated my original post with a first rough and some insights into it.

I really like the content of the image (and you clearly put a lot of thought behind these things which is very impressive), but I think there's issues on the "blob" level. This should preferably be taken care of before any of the details are added, the quick kind of experimenting Ben is doing, since I'd hate to redraw all that stuff you've put into the image already, but you can always push things with some lighting:



Btw: The bright blob on the left in the above isn't ideal position wise, since it draws us out of the image, (and too bright if you look at the rest of the sky), but just there to serve as a point about extracting interesting shapes that breaks up the image.

Does anybody have any thoughts on this? I know there are some games with great scrolling backgrounds (The Dark Eye: Chains of Satinav, Full Throttle, etc), I'm wondering if there's any techniques that can help out here?

I can't stand not knowing the framing of an image, so I avoid them, so I'd be very interested in any insights myself.

[Cassiebsg:]

My thread updated with stage 2 of my progress.

Another great set of wips, quite exemplary!

I was having a bit of an issue finding stuff in the image though (the perils of the blobs), so when you were talking about the tree you were tweaking I was hopelessly scanning those thumbnails with no luck.

I do have one concern though when it comes to playability, since, as I interpreted the script, you're supposed to be able to reach: the south exit, the tree, the dock on the left, and the harbor master's office, and with the scale of the south exit (which is quite big), there would be quite some scaling if one is supposed to reach the door of the office (which I'm guessing is the closest building on the right).


Cassiebsg:

Anyway, here for you to rip apart:

Cool to have a 3D piece involved. As you said, the camera is quite high, but in 3d that'll be an easy fix.

Even if you're doing it in 3d though, it might be good to take Ben's route, with laying down some values, to see how the silhouette's are gonna turn out before going into details like that ornamentation on the door for instance, and try to nail the layout and composition and as much as possible before going into 3d. So much at this stage is just about combining differently shaped blobs with other blobs to make something visually interesting, and without values you can't really tell. Anyway, perhaps you were heading into values next, making the above moot.

I realize the above was a quick sketch, but it's worth having some of the following design considerations in mind when working with the rough sketches, since at this point it's very easy to adjust everything:

ps. for this workshop I'm going to take the painter's approach with values and shapes. Simply because I'm here to learn new things and not just to do what I'm always doing. Using lines or shapes both have their advantages and disadvantages; and of course you can mix them. In the end it's mostly about using the approach you're most comfortable with to find the right structure for your scene (without getting lost in details)

Just to be clear, it's not my intention to force people to take certain routes, which is why I didn't mention 'thumbnails', so I hope noone feels compelled to use them.

I am curious as to how line art focused people work when it comes to rough sketches and values/composition, since if you first do the line art, you have no real way of knowing how the lighting and values in general will work out, and since you've invested all that effort into the line art, it must be a pain to go back n redo everything if the lighting/values turn out to not work properly.

I posted my first set of rough sketches.

If anybody's worried about the big image, I'm happy to put a preview with a link to the bigger thing on click, although I figure since it's specifically a workshop thread it might not be such a problem here.

Excellent way to kick off the activity! Really interesting following the progress.

I usually don't pay much attention to dividing the image into thirds, so it was interesting to see how central it seems to your process (I usually have the golden ratio back in my head, but that's about it).

One nice thing with making it image based (though there are drawbacks of course), is that they can be easily reused in places like the critique's lounge, especially when it's about universal topics such as composition. (Though noone should of course feel compelled to post their stuff in pure image form, text is of course perfectly fine).

Edit: Question: did you do perspective grids for all of them, and do you always place the vanishing points at the thirds (horizontally and vertically) or center if they're inside the picture?

Ooooo I'm gonna be taking part. Saving this space will update soon

Good to hear!

Regarding updates, I think it's probably good if people post their progress in new posts, but also update their "main" ones, to make it easy for people to find the new stuff, but at the same time makes it tidy n easy to follow the progress.

Okay, started! (first post updated).

Quick question, what is the orientation of the screen, if specified? Is the exit to the south at the bottom of the screen?

I believe it's with south at the bottom of the screen, though JudasFm should probably answer that.

I can work with this (nice script ).

Small question: I take it, that Trin the Harbor Master is not, himself, in this scene, as he's presented in the script as a key character and no key characters are present...?

The script, written by JudasFm (big thanks!), does feature some NPCs, but I leave it up to the participants if they want to include any. If you feel like including Trin (which the script doesn't mention the gender of btw), feel free!

------------

Gonna use this as my progress post:

[Stage I: Thumbnails and Composition]

Edit:






--

Previous Background Workshop (2008)

--

Table of Content (courtesy of Misj')

Stage I: Thumbnails and Composition

• On roughing out your scene (Misj')
• Boxes, symmetry, and repetition (Loominous)
• Using values to create focal points (Loominous)
• Thoughts on Scrolling Backgrounds (Misj')
• Taking liberties with a script; positioning exits (ThreeOhFour)
• Thinking about light slightly backwards (Loominous)
• Removing Animated Elements & Light Direction (Misj')

Stage II: Sketch Refinement

• On values, hue, and saturation (Misj')
• Redirecting focus (Loominous)

Stage III: Refinement

• Limiting value ranges (Loominous)

[Stage one (rough sketch/reference studies):]

What's the difference between rough vs refined sketch? Would it be Thumbnail vs large res sketch? Composition vs colors?

I dunno, just blurted out some stage descriptions, perhaps four stages would be better? I guess stage one would be thumbnailish sketches, stage two sort of end resolution "sketching", and then a stage or two for refinement/colors. Open for ideas.

Anyway, here's another timeline:

------------- timeline v02 --------------------

Stage one (rough sketch/reference studies):

Day1. Present idea
2. (work on rough sketch)
3. (...)
4. (...)
5. (...)
6. Present rough sketch and provide feedback
7. (Feedback n continued work on sketch)
8. (...)
9. (...)
10. (...)

Stage two (refined sketch):

1. Present rough sketch and start working on refined sketch
2. (work on refined sketch)
3. (...)
4. (...)
5. (...)
6. Present refined sketch and provide feedback
7. (Feedback n continued work on refined sketch)
8. (...)
9. (...)
10. (...)

Stage three (refinement):

1. Present refined sketch and start working on refined piece
2. (work on refined piece)
3. (...)
4. (...)
5. (...)
6. Present refined piece and provide feedback
7. (Feedback n continued work on refined piece)
8. (...)
9. (...)
10. (...)

Stage four (round up):

1. Present final pieces.

-----------------------------------------------

So this would provide 10 days per stage, where hopefully people could present stuff on day 6 of each stage, to allow for feedback exchanges.

Seem more reasonable?

The problem I see with this is the different schedules of people. Some have lots of time during the week while others may be able to work on weekends only. Maybe set the day 1 of each week as fixed date for showing the result of the previous week but keeping the week-internal schedule more a recommendation than a requirement and also adding a feedback on days 2 and 3?

The problem as I see with having the feedback on day 2-3 of the next stage is that there would be no way to incorporate the feedback, it would be more of a post analysis, since you're supposed to have moved on to the next stage. So we'd either we'd have to extend each stage with a day or two, or I think we'd end up with quite a mess.

As I see it, the presented timeline would be a sort of ideal schedule that people who have the time would follow, and would allow them to get the most out of the activity, with feedback being exchanged etc, while everyone else is free to tag along best their schedule allows, be it just posting an update at each stage, or at the end.

Edit: the weekday vs weekend availability is interesting, will update the survey

Many have mentioned momentum, and tis a tricky one.

Here's an idea for a timeline, where each stage would have a milestone of sorts in the middle, where one is supposed to show the progress, to allow the remainder of the stage to be about exchanging feedback. You'd then present what you have at the start of the next stage, where we'd round up all the progress, and continue with the next step.



The topic would be presented a few days before the start, allowing people to be able to present the idea on the first day.

If someone's not able to present the progress at the specific days, then it's not a big deal, but everyone's encouraged to, and if you have progress to present sooner, then all the better.

Thoughts?

[You're free to answer as many or few of these as you like, so just answer what you like, and comments are very welcome:]

So I thought I'd do a survey to get a sense of the general interest in another background workshop, and gather some opinions.

Since I haven't figured out how to do polling, we'll have to do it bb voting style, can copy and use the text below:

You're free to answer as many or few of these as you like, so just answer what you like, and comments are very welcome:

1a. I'd be interested in participating, provided the timing suits me: yes/no
1b. I would probably only be interested/able to provide critique and not participate:

2a. The best time period for me would be: month/weeks/season/whatnot
2b. The ideal duration of the activity for me would be: days/weeks
2c. On average, provided that the timing suits me, I would probably be able to spend this many hours peer week during it: hours a day/week

3a. I feel comfortable with the concept of composition when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it):
3b. I feel comfortable with the concept of values when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it):
3c. I feel comfortable working with thumbnails when it comes to paintings:
3d. I feel comfortable giving critique in general regarding other's pieces:

4a. I would be interested in providing a tutorial in some area:
4b. I would be interested in participating/help in some other area:

5a. Some general thoughts/suggestions:

Edit: 6a. I have most spare time during: weekend/weekdays
(In retrospect, formulating the survey as statements rather than questions feels rather awkward. Curious decision)