Messages

[the vict0r:]

Ok then, let's get the voting started:

the vict0r:

I thought it might have been time to post something

zyndikate:

"But honey, the ridiculously suspicious-looking captain said that this was a nice spot to eat, drink and engage in fun activities!"

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6373/piratebarfinaldc1.png (background only)

Ok, My entry.. and I spent so much time on it I probably could just aswell made a one room game of it.

I didn't want to make the grass-picnic-like background, so I looked the word up in the dictionary too see if there was another way to use it, so I choosed the regular Pirate bar with alot of drinking and fist fighting for everyone.
The purpose was to make a real background that was ready for ingame use, also added cellshaded 2D characters so its shows how it would fit the background ingame, so they dont have any shadows.

It was fun and I learned alot!

EDIT: its looks kinda dark against the forum background color, try it on a dark background.

EDIT: Someone asked me to do a tutorial on how I make my backgrounds, I haven't started yet, but Ill use this one in the tutorial.

Penguin:

Kinda weird resolution and kinda undone entry ... is better than no entry! :3



I don't mind the first post collection of backgrounds at all, nor any critique.
Couple of very nice entries so far, hopefully more to come .

ProgZmax:

I have to show up every so often to show you punks that lots of colors and high definition aren't everything!Ã, 

Besides, even Satan has a picnic once in awhile!



14 colors, C-64 palette, C-64 double-wide pixels!

MashPotato:

Well, I won't be able to finish because I have to help my grandmother move, but here is what I have so far in all its terribleness...


The first church picnic in history, ill-fatedly situated in the Roman Colosseum:

Ildu:

Yup, it's too late for me . I don't even have a decent idea, let alone sketches or anything. So don't wait up on me .

EDIT: I just started working on an entry some 30min ago . I'm almost done with sketching, so I hope I'll have it done in time . Would it be problematic to give some 30-60 min extra time?

EDIT: I'm almost done .

Done. This entry doesn't deserve an introduction .



I know it's a friggin' lame idea and crappy altogether , but I guess it's not too bad for 2,5 hours of work. Notice that I had to use typefaces for lettering, because of the hurry. Uggo!

-

Please place one vote in the following categories

The categories:

Idea - The underlying idea to the background. Doesn't
necessarily have to coincide perfectly with the theme of the
week, just strike you as interesting/amusing/inspiring; a place
you'd really enjoy visiting within a game.

Atmosphere - How well the image manages to evoke a certain
feeling or mood.

Design - How well the elements in the image are designed,
such as landscapes, buildings, decorations, clouds, doorknobs,
etc.

Composition - How well the elements in the image work
together/are positioned in relation to each other.

Functionality - How well it would work when adding sprites, i
ncluding appropriate walking distances, a good angle for
character sprites, clever walkway solutions, easily understood
exits, etc.

Technique - How well the ideas are executed in form of
rendering.

Anyone is welcome to vote, and it would be great if all
participants could provide their own. You don't have to vote
in all categories, and if provide multiple names in a category,
then please be clear about which one is your pick.

Here are the categories, for your copy n paste convinience:

Code: ags

[b]Idea:[/b]
[b]Atmosphere:[/b]
[b]Design:[/b]
[b]Composition:[/b]
[b]Functionality:[/b]
[b]Technique:[/b]
[/code[/b]

Man, this post is huge.

Gonna have to go to bed about now, so we'll just start the voting in the morning. Good luck with that entry!

So, any entries in the making? Guess we have enough entries to end the comp tomorrow, though I suppose we could stretch it til sunday so people could get some weekend time.

Another great pic there Mash!

The lighting n nose still bother me a bit, and I won't be able to do an edit for a day or two, but the character n style is terrific.

About the black n white step, I almost always do it, mainly because I start out with small thumbnails in which I lay down values, so the black n white foundation is already there, and then I just scale those up n keep refining. It doesn't have to be black n white; I often place a hue/saturation adjustment layer on top n choose colorize to tone all layers beneath in a way that fits the mood, as well as to get rid of the boring black n white look, so this means everything that's painted beneath will be toned (so you can paint with black n white which is easier (but it'll still be toned)).

Starting out very simply but in a manner in which the whole pic is already there from the start (though very rough) is something I'd really recommend to anyone, that is, with the values and general colour scheme present. This lets you get a sense of how the pic will turn out early on, so you can make radical modifications without losing more than a minute's work. The process is sort of like having your adjust eyes adjust to bright light, in which you  only pretty much see the main sillhouettes, then gradually start making out the finer value differences and colours.

Shaque:

I might've been misleading before about criticism, but it was only meant for entries for the comp. The critique's lounge's what you're looking for.

Ildu:

You know that you can press the small "new" icon beside the thread link to hop directly to the new posts in a thread?

Mash:

My thought was to add them all up in the voting post, along with the rules n whatnot, so they'd be at the "end" as well, and since they're already gathered, it'll only take a second to do it.

Ildu:

I forgot about the text, and it's now added.

It's just quotes from the posters, so the images are already downloaded, hence there's no additional bandwidth usage and if images are updated, while retaining the same name/location, the first post will feature the latest versions, though not any additional text (automatically anyway).

When the thread reaches two pages the followers of the thread will be taken to the next page anyway, so the bandwidth wouldn't be an issue, unless they consciously went back to the first page, so you'd be able to still be surprised, and those who like the gallery style can check out the first post. So as far as I can see both tastes are satisfied, but I'm interested in hearing more opinions.

Andail:

I see your point, and the idea was more to give some helping comments to those who seem like they would appreciate it, not some general critique. I myself am rarely keen on recieving critique on my work (except from a few sources), so I completely understand the sanctuary thought.

As far as discussions about images n such goes, I don't really see any problem with it since it would sorta be like discussing in an art gallery. I see no reason why one ought to walk around without uttering a word.

I can completely understand your objection if you had to wade through 20 pages with 4 entries spread out somewhere in there, but have a harder time when the entries are neatly lined up. And due to the interest/insight of the participants/viewers, there's potential for some very interesting (background related) discussions that probably wouldn't happen elsewhere. (yes, there's the technical discussion thread in the CL, but I don't think I'm alone in never viewing that one, and I prefer it when these discussions evolve more naturally).

I'm gonna gather the entries in the first post, for everyone's convenience, so unless it's against the forum rules, I as host wouldn't mind any comments/discussions, and would like to encourage good critique a la ildu.

[Guidelines:]

Sorry about the tardiness, but here's this round's topic:


"THAT'S IT, NEXT TIME I'M[/i] PICKING THE PICKNICK SPOT"


Guidelines:

Create a background that you think matches the above topic.
Use any resolution and colour amount that you like, as long
as it's feasible that the AGS engine could pull it off in some way.

Voting:

Voting will begin at 00:00 GMT (greenwich) the 4th, and end
at the same time the next day.

Please place one vote in the following categories

The categories:

Idea - The underlying idea to the background. Doesn't
necessarily have to coincide perfectly with the theme of the
week, just strike you as interesting/amusing/inspiring; a place
you'd really enjoy visiting within a game.

Atmosphere - How well the image manages to evoke a certain
feeling or mood.

Design - How well the elements in the image are designed,
such as landscapes, buildings, decorations, clouds, doorknobs,
etc.

Composition - How well the elements in the image work
together/are positioned in relation to each other.

Functionality - How well it would work when adding sprites, i
ncluding appropriate walking distances, a good angle for
character sprites, clever walkway solutions, easily understood
exits, etc.

Technique - How well the ideas are executed in form of
rendering.

Anyone is welcome to vote, and it would be great if all
participants could provide their own. You don't have to vote
in all categories, and if provide multiple names in a category,
then please be clear about which one is your pick.

Comments and work in progress pictures are highly encouraged.

Good luck!

--

The Entries (so far):

the vict0r:

I thought it might have been time to post something

zyndikate:

"But honey, the ridiculously suspicious-looking captain said that this was a nice spot to eat, drink and engage in fun activities!"

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6373/piratebarfinaldc1.png (background only)

Ok, My entry.. and I spent so much time on it I probably could just aswell made a one room game of it.

I didn't want to make the grass-picnic-like background, so I looked the word up in the dictionary too see if there was another way to use it, so I choosed the regular Pirate bar with alot of drinking and fist fighting for everyone.
The purpose was to make a real background that was ready for ingame use, also added cellshaded 2D characters so its shows how it would fit the background ingame, so they dont have any shadows.

It was fun and I learned alot!

EDIT: its looks kinda dark against the forum background color, try it on a dark background.

EDIT: Someone asked me to do a tutorial on how I make my backgrounds, I haven't started yet, but Ill use this one in the tutorial.

b]Penguin:[/b]

Kinda weird resolution and kinda undone entry ... is better than no entry! :3



I don't mind the first post collection of backgrounds at all, nor any critique.
Couple of very nice entries so far, hopefully more to come .

I have to show up every so often to show you punks that lots of colors and high definition aren't everything!Ã, 

Besides, even Satan has a picnic once in awhile!



14 colors, C-64 palette, C-64 double-wide pixels!

MashPotato:

Well, I won't be able to finish because I have to help my grandmother move, but here is what I have so far in all its terribleness...


The first church picnic in history, ill-fatedly situated in the Roman Colosseum:

b]Ildu:[/b]

Yup, it's too late for me . I don't even have a decent idea, let alone sketches or anything. So don't wait up on me .

EDIT: I just started working on an entry some 30min ago . I'm almost done with sketching, so I hope I'll have it done in time . Would it be problematic to give some 30-60 min extra time?

EDIT: I'm almost done .

Done. This entry doesn't deserve an introduction .



I know it's a friggin' lame idea and crappy altogether , but I guess it's not too bad for 2,5 hours of work. Notice that I had to use typefaces for lettering, because of the hurry. Uggo!

[/font]

edit: Extended

Snarky:

My aim has never been to make games with anything remotely close to pixelhunting and generally a very limited use of inventories, which allows for a much looser background style. And with the alpha channel ability, you can make backgrounds even more painterly like, because the smooth edges intergrates sprites and foreground elements seemlessly. Add to this the ability to tint, create haze effects with semitransparent overlays etc, and the style restrictions are pretty much gone, as far as my tests have shown.

Since I usually keep the different depth levels on seperate layers, it's easy to just place parts of the background as foreground objects, with perfect alpha channels.

As far as sprites are concerned, some may think that a cel shaded style may clash against more painterly backgrounds, but I'm, and probably most with me, are so used to the flat style being used against painted backgrounds, so there's not much of a problem.

Course, some background elements have to be done in a celshaded style, in this case, the door probably, if it's supposed to open, but I usually don't bother doing this in bb entries.

So, while I'm well aware that my backgrounds may come across as more of paintings than actual backgrounds, it's deliberate experimentation.

Thanks for the kind comments and to ildu for another well hosted round. I'll try to get the next one up  asap.

Elric:

Careful there or I might actually swallow that praise. But I'm very glad you enjoy the atmosphere, since it's usually my primary objective, and I keep struggling to find the right style that will capture the mood I'm after (which I have yet to reach).

The composition is indeed a bit funky, and it's probably much due to the fact that the image started out horizontally flipped, and have then been altered over time to function decently in the current way.

[Idea]

Idea - Mikko
Atmosphere - nihilyst
Design - nihilyst
Composition - Mikko
Functionality - Mikko
Technique - nihilyst

Mr Buckethead:

I think the image could have benefitted from focusing on a smaller area in the enviroment. For one, to get closer to the character, which makes it more intimate, instead of a impersonal moving dot, and to decrease the walk distances (my entry is hardly ideal in these aspects).

In this case you could have placed the camera by the pond, which would've given you a nice foreground, and would've gotten you closer to both the pond and the house.

The colour of the sky could've affected the building more, which atm seems lit up by the single outside lamp, which would've added a bit more colour variation.

The building is interesting though, and I really like the pond design.

lilemX:

I like the muted colours and the sky. Think what I'm missing the most is a background, since the world seems to end behind those trees (again, something that my own entry is pretty guilty of). A mountain line or something could've worked.

Placing the camera a bit lower, and pushing the building back a bit could probably give the composition some breathing room in the lower region, which seems very cramped.

Tocsik:

I really like the palette and the more intimate size of the room, as well as the details on the walls n fireplace. Since the room is pretty brightly lit, there's no real reason why the chair should be black though, and it kind of sticks out in a bad way, and could've benefitted from a upper side (atm it looks paper thin).

nihilyst:

I really like the colours and shading, and the frame is great. The only real thing I can think of is the empty areas, especially on the right side, which makes it less believable as an inhabited area, though I suppose this might've been a conscious move to make it more creepy.

Mikko:

What bugs me the most is the lack of depth in the eyes, which atm looks like two papers taped on the wall, as well as the hellspawn of the devil tool.

It's a nice n unusually cozy room though, and the design of the fireplace is really cool.

Privateer Puddin':

The colour scheme is really nice, and the tree design is damn cool. Feels somewhat like Bone (even though I havn't actually that game) and the empty 3D feel doesn't bug me, even though it's my usually biggest gripe with 3D entries, though it might be due to the 2D elements.

The composition and black value of the background elements really bugs me, and it would've been nice to see how they'd turn out without the timestrain.

Played around with the palette for way too long, so many parts are rushed, and the trees suck.



Don't really know what witches are supposed to be doing during this eve, but these sisters decided to spend it together.

Basically design means what objects in the bg look like, while composition means how they're positioned.

I like the succinct distinction - could be used in the description, though perhaps with the modification:

Design - the physical appearance of the parts of the world

Composition - how these parts are composed/placed in relation to eachother

'Objects' might be misinterpreted as mere "things", while such things as landscapes, the sky, and other vast "objects" are neglected.

-

I'm torn between Snarky's idea of adding 'camera angle suitability' to 'Walkareas & Exits', and ildu's merger of this into composition.

While a good camera angle is part of a good bg composition, it also feels like composition is more of the aesthetical aspect of this, rather than the functional.

Can't really make up my mind, so I'd be cool with any solution.

-

I know my former descriptions of the categories sucked, so if anyone has any ideas of new ones, please do tell.

Just did a bit of research, looking through five randomly picked rounds all occuring before the category system:

Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Just vote:Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã, Very brief comment:Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã, Vote with comment:

Round1:Ã,  Ã, 15Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã, 0Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã, 1

R2:Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  6Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  2Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã, 1

R3:Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã, 18Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã, 4Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã, 1

R4:Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  6Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  2Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã, 1

R5:Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  6Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  4Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã, 0

-

An additional thing I noticed was that the comments were almost exclusively about the winning contribution, or the runner upper.

-

My suspicion prior to this tiny investigation, was that the categories might make people reluctant to comment, since they've spent energy filling out the category votes, and so the categories would in a way discourage comments.

Though it's not at all safe to draw any conclusions from these instances, they seem to suggest that the categories are irrelevant when it comes to additional comments, or possibly benefitial, in that more situations occur, where the voter is ambivalent and weighs two entries against eachother, and while doing this, discusses their respective qualities.

-

About the category ideas, I like the first version, perhaps with an exhange of the "Walkareas & Exits" category for "Functionality" (which adds the neccessity for a good camera angle, that works with 2D sprites).

Seems like ten categories were a bit overkill then.

I like Snarkys idea about comments, since the categories only mentions the "best" ones. I'd hate to see brief "that sucks" comments, but they could be discouraged in the rules. I think the form of "Pros: , Cons:" would work well, since it would encourage finding flaws even in "amazing" entries, and bright spots in less than great entries.

The comment system doesn't have any host picking aspect yet though. I suppose the comments could be followed by a single vote, though I'm not a fan of this method, for reasons I've mentioned before.

I think it's worth to try out though, since we've already tried lesser n bigger number category systems.

-

I'm not sure if this breaks any sub forum rules or anything, but it would be nice if this thread was to remain open for a bit longer, while the new one gets started (though perhaps without a set voting system for now).

The time I introduced the former categories, we got about three votes in total, and would've probably gotten similar reasons for the lack participance.

Doesn't mean that this system will catch on of course, just that drawing conclusions from a single or few instances isn't a very accurate or safe method.

Since you don't like the system, I see no reason why you should use it though, so I'll just continue my experimentations the next time around. No hard feelings.

To me, there were clearly less outsider voters in contrast to the participants themselves, is this positive/negative?

While we're asking tough questions: puppies - cute or monstrous?

-

Edit: I'm still very interested in hearing ideas about the system - I just have a problem when new/innovative ideas get discarded quickly, since I see it as one of the prime reasons to cultural conformity.

[zyndikate]

Man, compiling those votes takes ages.

Anyway, here's the roundup:

Idea - zyndikate, followed by Mash
Atmosphere/Mood/Emotion - TheJBurger, followed by Ildu
Storytelling/Authenticity - Ildu

Design - Ildu
Composition - Ildu
Colours - Ildu
Lighting - Ildu

Camera Placement/Angle - TheJBurger
Walkareas - Mash, followed by Ildu
Exits - Ildu

Ildu, as the list suggests, got the most amount of votes, so congrats!

[Idea]

Ok then, let's get the voting started.

So I thought we'd try some different categories than the usual this time, namely:

Idea - Self explanatory
Atmosphere/Mood/Emotion - As well
Storytelling/Authenticity - While not all enviroments may tell us clear stories, most provide us with traces of the past, and of their inhabitants, which make them come alive, and feel believeable.

Design - The design of landscapes/objects/architecture
Composition - How well the different elements of the background are composed.
Colours - Anything from nice colour choices for objects, to colourschemes/tones.
Lighting - Doesn't have to be any fancy lighting, just one that works well for the style/scene.

Camera Placement/Angle - Should fit/emphasize the mood of the scene, while still work technically with 2D sprites.
Walkareas - Cleverly restricting the movement, to give the illusion of freedom, while not confusing the player.
Exits - How clear the exit areas/paths are, and the lack of areas that look like exits, but aren't.

-

It would be great if all participants provided their votes. The voting is of course open to anyone, and if you feel uncomfortable placing a vote in any category, just skip it, or ask for a more thorough explanation.

Voting will end tomorrow at 00:00 GMT.

-

Here's the code for the categories, so you can simply copy n paste, n fill in your picks.

Code: ags

[b]Idea[/b] -
[b]Atmosphere/Mood/Emotion[/b] -
[b]Storytelling/Authenticity[/b] - 

[b]Design[/b] - 
[b]Composition[/b] - 
[b]Colours[/b] - 
[b]Lighting[/b] - 

[b]Camera Placement/Angle[/b] - 
[b]Walkareas[/b] - 
[b]Exits[/b] - 

-

Hope you give your vote, the entries deserve it!

An hour to go. If anyone wants a short extension, please PM me.

Deadline extended an additional day, by request.