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[Please read the voting guidelines in the first post before submitting.]

Ok then, voting's open.

Please read the voting guidelines in the first post before submitting.

While the categories already provides comments on the pieces' strentghs, and indirectly weaknesses, additional comments are very welcomed. I'd personally rather see them touching on more objective qualities, such as strong composition etc, than being based on your personal preferences, but it's of course up to you.

Anyone need a deadline postponement?

when exactly is the deadline?

Voting will begin the 28th. I tend to specify the voting days to avoid confusion, but fell back on this system for some odd reason.

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Glad to see the sudden entry boom; hope we'll have some additional fine entries by monday.

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Edit: Btw, the enviroment doesn't have to be unnerving to be scarcely charted. Could be a hidden garden of Eden or lost Atlantis.

You're not a magnificent benevolent benefactor of all.

I really have no clue where that came from.

How do you reach the conclusion that I consider myself magnificent?Ã,  Some people praise my edits, something which I can't be held responsible for, and also something which causes me discomfort, knowing how lacking they must seem for people more skilled.

I have an intentional practise of never telling people how the images is should be, I merely offer suggestions on how I would do it, or common practises/theories for achieving certain results/effects.

As critical as I am of other's work, it doesn't even begin to match my scrutinization of my own.

So don't jump to the conclusion that I actually take people's praise to heart. I'm all too well aware of my inabilities.

As you say below and as I explained in my other post, it should be useful to you, being such a prolific editor around here, to know when other people think your edits go south too, but if you don't like hearing that, ok, you don't like it. Won't stop it from happening.

I'm getting tired of the claim that I demand people to follow my preferences. I stated that I didn't like a specific form of critique, but didn't expect it to become a forum rule, so where's the point in pointing out that it won't stop happening? I know it, you know it.

We're saying, 'squinky, a part of your audience believes that direction to not be fitting to the type of work we believe you're trying to create. It might not be to your advantage to follow that critique.'

I suppose I might've been a bit sensitive towards Mr C's post; I'm just sick of people criticising people trying to help instead of helping themselves, and might've read things into his post that wasn't meant to be there.

Oh well.

Lastly, this is an open forum, and as an editor (even the most acclaimed one) you're not immune to c&c, Loominous. Eric has every right in the world to question your edits. Even if you disagree, you can't say that it is automatically wrong.

I don't really understand how you got this impression. As far as I know, I even made a distinction between what I consider proper and improper critique of other's edits, so it puzzles me how you interpreted this as a categorical rejection of c&c. Considering the amount of criticism I hand out, it would be ridiculously hypocritical if I did.

And while I did state that I didn't like some form of criticism, I don't believe that I made any demands that it should be adopted as a general law for the CL. Though one can always hope.

It can sometimes be hard to keep within the boundary of good tutoring, without simply becoming an "art-improvifier".

A point I wanted to make with my charity analogy was that we can't, and I think shouldn't, place any real expectations on the critique given, as long as it's meant to be constructive.

If we collectively hired an art instructor, we'd be in a position to demand high-class pedagoguish critique. As it is, people contribute with what they can.

As I mentioned, I do believe that some critique can potentially be harmful, and that such should be discouraged, which is why I welcome meta discussions.

Anyway, sorry about hijacking the thread Squinky.

Helm:

Is it bad to outline that your edit might not be good?

Yes and no, I suppose.

Yes, if the criticism have anything to do with taste. Whether mr Colossal likes her face or not is pointless knowledge as far as I'm concerned, since it's Squinky's taste that matters. For all we know he might've aimed exactly at the style I presented - though I doubt it - and he is in a position to dismiss suggestions as easily as embracing them.

No, if the criticism is on a meta level. Pointing out that the edit may harm the original maker is most relevant.

However, I do think there are limits here. I see critique in the form they're available here as charity. Any charitable activity is good, as long as it doesn't harm anyone. A problem arises when people not contributing starts wasting their energy to criticise the work of the charity workers, instead of spending it on contributing themselves and setting an example. Not only doesn't it aid the person who asked for help, it irritates the charity workers.

I have lots of bones to pick with people who edit and awesomify radically, because, as cool as it is to see it happen, it doesn't help the person being edited.

While I agree on the uselessness of total revamps in many cases, they serve an important purpose in situations like these, where parts of the original is too far from what the editor thinks of as proper, consideringÃ,  the overall style and skill level of the rest of the image. Minor modification won't do well in these cases and the point is to illustrate what area/s can be improved with some briefer studies, which will lift the image radically. It's like the pose issues, major rework would be required, but instead of making a rough sketch like Igor's, I made it in detail.

I don't expect Squinky to look at it and simply get how to draw more conventional facial features, rather to notice the abnormalities and decide based on this whether to study some real faces to obtain a different style, or settle with the current one.

And while one can argue that comic book anatomy/poses/lighting differs from more realistic style, they're simply stretches, and someone who has mastered the former can, with some minor practise, handle the latter, but not vice versa. I don't mean that Squinky should spend years studying anatomy, just spend half an hour or so studying how eyes, for instance, are constructed, and incorporate the knowledge in whatever style he choose to use.

Loomis' books are excellent on this subject, since they show how to construct things using simpler building blocks, rather than just showing neat renders found in most books on anatomy. In retrospect, the latter is what I unfortunately choose to do, but my intention was to lead him to either read Loomis or do other studies where he'd obtain the former.

You simply turned an idiosynchartic face, very very fitting to the setting, to a pretty face that is fitting to other things

I discussed in my former post why I tend to choose more ideal beauty over a more flawed interesting ones in my edits. My edit was meant as a pointer, not as a substitute.

And while the expression/style of the face might fit the overall image to an extent, I doubt that Squinky would choose the style the current style over a more conventional professional comic book one.

The whole "it fits his/her style" argument is flawed imo. While great originality can come out of shortcomings, I think the person should choose a style, not settle with it because the lack of ability to do "better". If I knew that Squinky could draw like, I dunno, Marvel Comic artists, then I'd see no point in my edit, since he had obviously choosen not to go with more conventional faces. But the whole "your style is cool, just go with it" argument only makes sense if "higher" aspirations don't exist, which I doubt is the case.


Mr Colossal:

I don't know why you chose to respond to my post and call it useless when there are tons of posts in other threads of people saying your edit is better than the original and how awesome your edit is and eye popping smileys. I think those are more useless than a post from someone who thought he could have a friendly chat. Oh well.

If a friendly chat was your intent, then I suppose I missed it, as your first post seemed like an unfriendly way to start one. I have no beef with you, but I thought I detected the reverse.

I agree that praising comments on edits are pretty unimportant, but they do serve as encouragement for the editor, so they do have a smaller purpose, though there's a potential backside in that spotlight is redirected from the original maker. So there's a balance to keep up there I suppose.

My comment on your comment was due to the fact that similar comments have irritated me in the past for the reasons I mentioned above in my reply to Helm, and that this practise hadn't been discussed before, very much unlike the praising smiley posts.

Edit: Spelling

personally I would have a hard time buying your edit, loominous, from the setting she's in and the clothes she's wearing and all that I wouldn't really buy a pretty face on her neck. Especially one as emotionless as the one you drew, but obviously it's just an edit and you probably did it up quick, just wanted to say.

Well:

I) I'm assuming that Squinky is going for a comic book kind of style, and though I havn't read many, protagonists with attractive facial features seems like the standard, regardless of the setting.

II) I don't see how a trashy setting/clothes would have anything to do with facial features.

III) I deliberately do attractive faces in edits since it's usually easier to "uglify", rather than beautifying. The problem many have is that they don't know how to create natural ideal looks, and if you don't know how to do this, then you don't have much control when it comes to determining the look of your characters, and have to rely on good fortune.

IV) My edit was mainly to show how more realistic features usually look from that angle. If Squinky knows this already and is deliberately going for the style featured, then he can just ignore it, but chances are in cases like these, that the style is based on limitations rather than preferences.

V) I don't really see how comments on edits serve much purpose, unless they'res from the maker of the original image. If the maker likes something in an edit, he/she'll include it, and vice versa. The knowledge of what forum member X thinks about an edit is as interesting as replies consisting of a smiley.

[Topic:]

Sorry about the delay, I had some trouble finding a decent topic, and even greater finding some inspirational footage/paintings (which I still havn't been able to). Anyway:

Topic:

BED & BREAKFAST ON A ROAD  LESS TRAVELED[/size]


Guidelines:

If you're unfamiliar with the term 'Bed & Breakfast', it is a sort of simpler hotel, which originally consisted of a couple of rooms for rent in a private residence. We'll go with the original meaning.

The idea is to create a scarcely charted enviroment, the more original the better, with a B&B present. Since these weren't built as commercial structures, it's important that they blend in well with the setting.

No size or palette restrictions.


Dates:

We'll try slightly more than a week, and if less than three entries has entered by then, it will be extended another week.


Voting:

PLEASE OBSERVE: Considering the success of voting system I introduced last time, with a total of two or so valid votes, we'll try it once again before I scrap it.

So, in essence, instead of voting for a picture in general, you vote in these four categories:

* Best Idea - The underlying idea to the background. Doesn't neccesserily have to coincide perfectly with the theme of the week, just strike you as interesting/amusing/inspiring; a place you'd really enjoy visiting within a game.

* Best Design - The style of the picture, architectural, landscape design, best mood, most evocative etc.

* Best Functionality - How well it would work when adding sprites, including appropriate walking distances, good angle for character sprites, clever walkway solutions, easily understood exits etc.

* Best Technique - How well the ideas are executed in form of rendering.

Good luck.

Edit: Fixed the dates

Edit II: Extended deadline

Edit III: Fixed deadline specification

Facial mods:



I think the facial features are holding the drawings back the most. The face is the first thing we look at, and if we don't buy it, we'll look very critically on the rest, and vice versa.

I hate studying anatomy, so I'm reluctant to recommend it, but perhaps look some books on faces, and do a couple of eye studies. My recommendations once again goes to Andrew Loomis' books, which focus on understanding of shape/mass, which will lead to solid understanding and independence from references.

Not only the best books on the subjects, imo - though I havn't really looked at many other - they're available for free (they're not printed anymore) at:

http://www.saveloomis.org/

Thanks for the kind comments.

Is it oil on canvas?Ã,  Ã, How did you do it, Loominous?

And did you draw it on paper or is it fully done in PS?

It is photoshop from scratch. I mostly use a fairly scattering hard brush, which along with limited sparse stroke amounts can give a analogue painting like look.

Since I'm about equally used to sketching on paper as with a tablet, I tend to skip the analogue step. It happens that I draw really rough pencil thumbnails to find a good composition, but I never bother scanning those.

So, did you really make that background in only one day?

Well, sort of. I did the sketch yesterday evening, then continued painting later that night and continued an hour or two this morning. So I suppose it depends on whether you define a day as a certain amount of hours, the passing of 12 AM, or the interval between sleep.

Does it intentionally echo the beginning of Myst IV?

My Myst experience is limited to watching some friend playing some earlier episode, so it's not intentional, but for all I know I might've been unconciously been inspired by a screenshot on some site. Do you happen to have any screenshots of that part of the game?

Edit: The two brushes I use the most

Another style experiment, with many rushed areas.

Edit: I just realized that the chair or desk are too tall. Same goes for the fireside.

Edit II: Updated pic. (Fixed the desk height)

Oh, just need a day really. So we can start voting tomorrow if it's ok with tiki.

I always get confused by this kind of deadline date convention, since some hosts have the voting start at the enddate, not the day after.

Mind delaying it a day? Was planning on doing my entry tonight but I'm too tired.

Perhaps add some clause about usage of references, that is, if usage of such, and if so to what extent, will affect the winner selection, especially since the goal is photorealism.

While winning is probably not the reason people enter this comp, it would probably be discouraging for participants who refrain from using references, or use them merely to study, to be beaten by people pixelizing photos, or similar techniques.

More disney like quick edit:



I think the thing holding it back the most is the palette. There are no real warm colors to compete with the very dominant cool, so you get very limited color contrast, which just like limited value contrast usually creates a pretty dull look.

The symmetric composition is quite boring as well, and the straight front view isn't the most interesting choice either. Without any overlapping objects and the limited shading, the depth also suffers.

On the other hand, the clouds are really nice (the right one doesn't really work as well though imo),and the idea of having her twirling through a cloud works very well, which also goes for her pose.

The photoshop file if you're interested - 500 kb (it's a mess though)

Cool Edit has a pretty good noise reduction feature which analyses parts with pure noise that you select, and then filters out those frequencies only (or something), when applied to the whole file.

The results vary in quality depending on the amount of noise, how much you reduce it, the characteristics of the noise and sound, and how long bits of pure noise the file has that can be analysed.

Since the file is a minor nightmare in these aspects, the result has some artifacts:

The modified file (.5 mb)

It's a really simple four click procedure, but you'd need to get hold of the program (think any version will do).

Declare Krysis the winner. Congrats.

[Please read the voting guidelines in the first post before voting.]

*cough*

Please read the voting guidelines in the first post before voting.

[Please read the voting guidelines in the first post before voting.]

Was just about to declare Krysis winner by default but what do you know.

Suppose voting's open. These dragged out voting periods serve no real purpose, especially since the competition is hardly about winning, so we'll have the voting open until tomorrow, unless less than three votes are in.

Please read the voting guidelines in the first post before voting.

Now,  I know (and thank rapidshare for that), that 10 people downloaded the music, played it, and hopefully enjoyed it (?)

I don't want to be pushy, but I'm used to being such a jerk: Come on, The one was esper, what about the other nine? Nobody has anything to say?

I was one of the nine I believe, and, perhaps like the others, didn't respond because I found myself in one of those situations where you listen/look at something and can't for the love of god figure out why it would appeal to anyone, though at the same time you also know that someone will probably love it.

In cases like those I just keep my opinions to myself.