Messages

What's wrong with the Polish?

What are we discussing now, Nacho? The Perfect Man?
Things aren't easily put on lists of proper conduct or behaviour that a man should follow.
The same way you debate or refuse the 10 Commandments, others will refuse educational manners that we accept (without a religious presence) as the right way.
On a visit to the north of Africa it wasn't polite if I didn't loudly burp after a meal.
If you want me to differentiate religion and education then we should first establish some points here.
By education do you mean scholarship or moral manners of living in society? Both? Very well, then I tell you that it's a known fact that an adult can be polite, educated and even a scholar without being religious.
Religion is another part of the human being. It's the "there's something more" factor, something we cannot measure but sense it's presence. The word soul, for example, can be used without religious connotations but always refers to a specific behaviour of man. Something we can't measure, like when your favourite football team lacks "flame" and we comment that their playing without soul.
What should a man be like? It's easy to enumerate some basic ideas that we all can agree without religion stepping inside. On that list you would probably write something like "A man should be confident.", well sometimes faith gives man that extra boost to take the right choices, didn't you ever called to God and asked him for it?
I know lots of non-religious people that admit they ask God's help numerous times in their lives.   

Khris, YES I believe that a man can be good without knowing Jesus. I thought I'd answer that before and I'm sure I did.

Akatosh, I believe there's a bug in the forums because I'm sure I wrote 4th power!
I got your point in your 3rd paragraph and it's a very clever question. It's all a big paradox because you can't say that more educated people aren't influenced by the media, there are different media for different classes. I was speaking generally and firmly agree that the media conduct us on a subliminal level with a degree that is much higher than it should be.
Don't forget that I've got two kids (she's 15 and he's 14) that are exposed 24/7 by the media like many more and what they accept today is far more demanding than I did only some 20 years ago. And I did have computers and movies and fashion magazines, rock & roll and whatever. So, I'm kind of living it right now and trying to be patient and acknowledge that they consider normal what I consider excessive.
I can't say that younger generations are non-believer because of the media but one thing I know is that if you sit for a whole day in front of a TV you'll never find content that brings people towards Catholic Church. Don't you agree?
So, we can say that the media if not refuses Christianity it does a good job leading kids away from it.

Nacho, maybe those words in capital letters mean a lot more to me than you.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I found your questions very intelligent.

Nacho, you're not an idiot although you do throw some grenades and then leave the scene and hide to see the outcome.
I never pointed out that I follow the white-bearded guy creating earth 6.000 years ago theory. Don't put every Christian in the same pot because I don't do that to you.

Khris, I'm sorry if I did lead you to think that I don't consider Men capable of great achievements or able to be "good". I don't think that way, although God revealing Himself to us and the teachings of Jesus did and still contribute to Humanity being better.
And why do you think Muslims or Hindus don't know Jesus?

Akatosh, the new media does poison our minds more than ever. It's the 3rd power and it is a subject on universities across the world. Actually, the new media could end it all in days. Not God, because he doesn't exists, right?

MrColossal, that picture was meant to me?
What about it? What do you want me to say that I haven't before?
They never heard about Jesus? Maybe yes. I've explained myself some post ago.

Nacho, you have just reached my point when I say that religion is extremely hard to spread on new generations like yourself that need some flashy TV ad to believe in something.
Dude, passing away (was this what you meant?) is some serious stuff that I hope you don't have to see it before your eyes.
And yes, God inspired and still inspires great men through history. What they have done with that inspiration is a different story.

Vince, I don't think you were disagreeing with me or that you were judging them, I just got carried away and developed my idea. Maybe others don't realize the effort those guys do and I guess what I wrote was to others as well.

Khris, I'm saying that it's impossible to (I dare to say 100%)  all of our members to not know that Jesus message was good or even to not know who he was or did.

Nacho, the morals in the Bible can change according to several factors, but the main one comes from the reader point of view.
Some things are pretty clear though, take the life of Jesus. How many standards of reasonable and sensible social awareness were accepted by us just by following his short period of permanence among us?
You can very well say that you can be and do good things without knowing him but you would be lying to yourself because Jesus is a part of your existence. Only the Beatles were bigger than him!... another joke made by a Christian
By the way, are you claiming that churches do use some kind of supernatural source?
Because they never used any on me. I choose to accept God and wasn't told to.

Vince, yes the Catholic Church does send hundreds of people to spread faith but according to what I've heard from people that were actually there, whence they get there the main focus is to give just the most simple and basic things that we consider ours by right! Medicaments, food and water come first, the reward sometimes is that some starving people do accept it as an act from God followers. See, it's not that easy.
For example, I travel to your country and find you in a desperate situation and help you.
It's easier for you to thank me than thank God although the inspiration that moved me there was His.
Missionaries are even regarded by the society I live like outcast and lost people that try to absolve their crimes and frustrations running away from the country. It's a very complicated situation.
You would had to sit and talk to one of this guys to actually know what they go through when they experience things that we can only read about it.
Meaning, the people on those countries just want to be fed and cured first because their intellectual state is far different than us. If they start to be religious or not is just a big question mark.

Akatosh, again I agree with you but as I mentioned before responsibility is the key word here.

SSH, speaking in behalf of the Catholic Church and what I'm aware of, some things are changing slowly.
Priests are seen very much like normal human beings to them, only they devoted themselves to serve the Church. Of course they can feel love for other persons of the same gender, and they do need sex as any other beings. The step to allow them to marry is on to be taken carefully and responsibly as many countries are still at what is called "lower levels" meaning some classical existence is still very established as the right way to be.
So, things do take time around here.    

Unfortunately Akatosh, you are right about the irresponsibility of some segments of the Catholic Church. But Fundamentalist movements are wrong to me either being religious or political with the same degree.
I make sure never to conduct myself in such way when relating to others.
The Church is a big organization and I rather focus on the good they provide to people even knowing they aren't perfect.
But I'm not a member of the Church, just a Christian and believe me when I say that I don't ignore the texts from the Bible, I studied the Bible on a personal level and several other gospels and related books. From it I found that the way the classical Church represented those texts was purely political. Christian thinkers were often banned and outcast from the higher levels of the clerical power. They too suffer from the ignorance of men.
I just want you to know that to be a Christian was and still his as hard as being anything else. Instead, it seams that modern society creates soulless humans that live happily not wondering if there is more to it.
 

C'mon Akatosh, after pages and pages of this topic you still only read what you want!
The Bible was written (specially the old testament) within a world that was politically very different from today.
Relax, nobody will ask you to go and fight the crusades.
You are free to let people be.
   

I did understand, but again, your notion of Heaven and the one I would address somebody on the street is different.
Let's go slowly here as mixing maths and religion can give odd numbers (666). See, Christians can tell bad jokes as well...

An old woman living on her pension has somebody knocking at her door saying she/he is a Jehovah witness. Unaware of the danger she opens the door to this stranger but everything turns out aright because it was not a thief.
Due to solitude and lack of somebody listening to her she hears the witness and accepts some literature. She agrees to meat the stranger again. A month later she finds that the witness message was suitable for her. Or not.
A younger person, in my belief, would politely say he was not interested after the first 10 minutes or not even bother to answer the door.
There you go. These are my statistics.
As for foreign missionaries, I have problems relating to a part of history that is no longer mine. Seams like you are reporting to something that happened a long time ago. As I said, the current modern world doesn't work like that and how many times in your life were you approached by missionaries?
If I was a non believer I would probably tell the persons to leave me alone. But then again, I had time and the will to read and educate myself through my life and made a rational choice about my beliefs.
Although I never found Catholic priests to be not polite to me or pushy as some of you mentioned before I didn't have the same experience with other religions as they sometimes don't respect people intelligence by addressing them on a old-fashioned and paternal way that clearly made me avoid them.

Part 3. Vince, I can't be any more honest to you than to tell you that I believe that there is one God that created our world and people might be calling him different names. And for what I studied, the god we are discussing here might not be the true God. It's a long story but if you're interested check Saklas or the Demiurg or Ishmael and maybe you'll find some cool stuff about this subjects.

Heaven and Hell is just the sum of our presence in our world. There will be a time where every single one of us will ask for forgiveness to God as we see our life slipping away. You'll do that to your loved ones if you (I hope it never happens) see them die as well. All sane men don't reject God when their time is finished. Even if it's a infinite figment of your brain, it will rise and cling to God as a final truce with him. Every one of us.

It's never bad to hear who was Jesus, if done responsibly.

Akatosh, nobody goes to hell for not spreading the gospel.
       

I lied, I can't just not participate

Vince:

1) God displays its presence in other ways other than the Catholic Church teaches, that boy would surely die as a man content with his life and in peace with the world. God appeared to us to reveal himself and what way we should conduct our lives. If someone, somewhere doesn't know that there's a God he will not be to blame or punished if you're going to ask that.
Also, Heaven isn't a beautiful garden and Hell isn't a place taken from the Lord of The Rings although happiness and suffering are indeed what differentiates our last moments in life.

2)Well I kind of answered your question about Heaven and Hell above.
I quite don't understand your question, starting with the notion that this days in our modern societies parents aren't responsible for their children as long as they were. Meaning I started to work when I was 17 and there was nothing my father could do about it without me revolting against him, something that wasn't possible some generations ago (before the Rolling Stones if may joke about it) before the kids in the 50's that started to foolishly emancipate and created a word and notion called teenager. We now accept it and we just consider normal that boys and girls will at some point start to dress funny and listen to MTV, we only hope they wont do something foolish (drugs mainly) and that they can live through it and start adult life.
What I am saying is, try to give a religious book like the Bible to a teenager and he will not accept things that are so clearly out of contest with is normal life.
Later on, the adult man or woman will have the freedom to choose whatever paths he wants to take with his life.
Then, if someone finds Christianity the right way it's only natural that we'll decide to reveal his ideas to others. I don't see anything bad with it.
And to me, it is more logic that someone reveals what he found than someone that refuses what he doesn't know.

3)This is a very good point you have here although I somehow answered it before.
You're "reading" the Bible with a very linear attitude and it's the worst way to address it. It's even dangerous to do so.
All Christians are not forced to act or live according to every single word written on the Bible. We have all accepted that it's not to be taken literally but to interpret it sensible, and focusing on the life of Jesus Christ there are hundreds of pure and rewarding events one can decide to lead his life.
Converting some lost tribe in 1500 is one thing and the world has clearly changed since that era.
I see God, Jesus and Christianity on a different way and will surely not brag about me going to Heaven or telling somebody he's going to Hell as I believe in the virtues of the Human race.

PS: to Khris and Akatosh I do apologize for being so intolerant and blunt about their posts.

I guess you're right. It's never ready!!!
But still I must move on to other projects, and I'm only about 7/8 rooms to finish it. Some guys here are giving me a hand with testing since location 1 so the final testing should not involve technical stuff.
Well I hope to release it in October.
To think my first deadline was December 2008!
Anyway, all the best to you

Akatosh, I am by nature very calm and I just found out that I can't keep my mouth shut even if I said that I wasn't posting any more.
This is how emotionally charged I will get on a forum debate where I can't see the persons I am talking nor their current emotional status. I make sure or try, to speak the best way I can for the sole reason that the posts aren't literature works of art and can be easily misunderstood. More so if I start with F... this or F... that.
To me, and to my personal beliefs and education is just bad manners and clearly not the way such talented members should adress themselves.
If I told you you hated religious people is because you haven't give any reason not to think otherwise.
Have you ever considered that some members of this forums can be Muslims? Have you stop and think "hey! why don't they ever speak about religion?". I believe that if they did they would be put down to misery by some of you. If a Christian still has some credit or will to speak is because the balance is still evened thus this debate.
You talked about your friend who's a Catholic and I can't even bring a friend of mine here because I'd be ashamed to show him the way we have been conducting this debate. His religion is different than mine, by the way.
"F... you" is a lot different than "I think you're wrong" Akatosh, no matter why.
And what's your point when you claim everything in the name of logic? That's just an excuse and you can excuse Khris every time you want but think about the hundreds of members that can be offended by your reckless posts.
4)blunt  (blnt)
adj. blunt·er, blunt·est
1. Having a dull edge or end; not sharp.
2. Abrupt and often disconcertingly frank in speech: "Onscreen, John Wayne was a blunt talker and straight shooter" (Time). See Synonyms at gruff.
3. Slow to understand or perceive; dull.
4. Lacking in feeling; insensitive.   

Khris, you clearly went over the top with your last posts. I mean, I'm not getting involved any more because I'm afraid I'll be told to F... off by you and that's just not the way to debate anything, no matter the subject or if you are 100% sure of an idea you may have.
Your personal debate with Misj who I think deserves more respect from you being a fellow AGS member (and that should mean something, even online games share more of a fellowship than this Forum for Christ sake!) dropped the level on this thread on a way that most people will not dare to participate.
SSH may have a point here, and I told you that at the beginning of this thread, your hate for religious people is not healthy to you and sometimes touches the frontier of some right-wing groups that parasite in society.
You are a brilliant coder and valuable member of AGS, perhaps one of the best around since the very start. You have helped me and thousands of other members with coding and that is just unreconcilable with your attitude on this thread.
You should respect yourself a bit more and acknowledge the responsibility of being KhrisMUC.
I'm sorry this turned out like this.
I hope you think about it.
Miguel.

Keep it going, I thought I'd never finish mine but Blue Moon is to be ready in september and tested in october.
I started it April 2008 and it's been a very loooong voyage...
But why am I talking about my game?
Good luck, hoping to play THGG any time soon.

notebook and a pencil works for me

C'mon guys!
It's a shame that two bright young lads that contribute enormously to this thread and community to start a war!

You better STFU mister.., you started this hell!!(joking,but actually you did)

Ain't I a stinker?

C'mon guys!
It's a shame that two bright young lads that contribute enormously to this thread and community to start a war!

Everytime I create a new NPC I have to make them walking chracters! I hate myself for it!
I've now reached 698 sprites with 86 views and it's just overwhelming for me as I'm piled with work in my life!
Plus a baby and two teenagers! Arghhh!
Still I keep coming for it and do some backgrounds or sprites between debating religion at the forums

Waldorf and Statler are indeed awesome .
I agree with doubting the veracity of things as I constantly do it myself, although it is established that faith is something far more intriguing than any other way of thinking.
Science led you to quantum levels where anything can happen and logic fails to take the domain for itself as it reaches a abstract connection with our world. It's there and scientists claim to prove it but still it's way beyond my understanding. Maybe it's just me and my poor scientific knowledge no matter how many articles I read.
Philosophy is a realm where any given fact can be denied for the sake of it and again I fail to connect or have the strength to dive deeper into it as it would clearly force me to chose between insanity or just a particular study I might find interesting.
Even art as shown us how abstract our minds can be and taken us away from fine craftsmanship to odd triggering of the brain where red squares and white squares can represent everything.
Faith is something so simple but at the same time almost unachievable for some.
I sometimes think that the way our genes develop into the unknown future can separate the ability/malfunction to believe in the divine. If so, science still has a long way to prove it right or wrong.