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Idea - Jburger

Atmosphere - Edloen, its so faerie tale and full of inviting intrigue.

design - Jburger, has an eye for detail and depth

composition - Jburger, depth and perspective is reached through use of intelligent use of colours and layers to create the impression of space.

functionality - this was difficult as all good theoretically work, I found Vertigo's style to be a consistant and the cleanness of the art allows for the interactivity to take place.

technique - while i do think Jburger has the best rendering, I actually want to nominate Edloen, because his style is very individualistic and clean and I think the style used is deceivelably simple. It is a nostalgic reminder of childrens illustrations - I think the style works well with the idea and setting.

sorry I'm late, better late then never
It's an alien planet, not sure how you got there? but somethings calling for you...

walkpoint is the derelict dragon (I intended that the dragon's eye be an entrance)
the strange pyramd structure you walk close to and both sides of the beam trails

(again really sorry, I only just got back)

my entry

When I realized that the vanishing point would be the same distance from the back wall as the front wall was, it was really quite simple.

This is a misconception.
The room you depicted is much, much deeper than wide.

(Perhaps I've misunderstood you but it sounded like you wanted to draw a cube.)

I think the problem lies in the fact that perspective has a limit by what can be perceived by the eye!

Take the example of this hastily prepared image



1) The difference between the cubes, one barely gets away with it, the other suffers the problem of seeming 'flattened' for being placed so vertically down (in a one dimensional sense)

2) beyond perspective, I'm not sure what the correct limit is but a rule of thumb is to never let the the diamonds left and right corners exceed 45 degrees

3) Vision - what can be logically visible from two vanishing point examples. You never see a checkerboard deviate like a sausage vertically? horizontally it doesn't matter because the horizon line is endless.

the vanishing point example by monkey is a case where the perspective exceeds the acceptable level of vision. Probably because the square is presented one dimensionally and doesn't 'pivot' from the vanishing point (360 degrees wise)

EDIT - I know the example is poor but I hope the explaination isnt worse

should we give it a day or two or start the voting now?

I personally would of chose low opacity noise to dithering

Well, it's great and all, but the scene looks waaay too much like Trilby's Notes. Maybe some way to distinguish it from the rest?

I think thats a bit unfair, thats like saying trilby's notes looks way too much like Maniac Mansion. You can't possibly claim owner ship to a certain style.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/raddicks/badgirl3.png
hopefully touched up enough, i'm content with the penchant looking like that - snagged on the leather jacket off-beatish. Oh the cigerette wasn't photoshopped, but it would of been easier maybe, I just used a polygonal lasso.

the cigerette was the most difficult (surprisingly! being a 'solid' object the tiniest smear made it look unsymmetrical)



I went for a gothy desaturated look, it may or may not have worked, personally I find too much colour wouldn't be too good for this artwork (as in I was aiming for a more noir feel)

tell me what you think

I'm sorry but what is this meant to be, it looks like a woman against a brick wall, with a factory in the bottom left corner and a hand trying to grab the scarf. Oh and also she seems to be chewing a penÃ,  .


Could you please tell me what is meant to be, then I can comment and give my opinion on the picture.

well scan is never perfect (either details too confusing or never there), I had to highlight the scarf and 'hand' skin parts to make it more clear (I can always erase it without damage to original). She's wearing a leather jacket. That wall is intentionally vertical, I guess its just my surrealist instinct wanting it like so. They're white-greyish bricks. The 'hand' isn't a hand its just a paintover over sketches of chains - and a locket (the paint serves no purpose other then to visualise changes i might make). I may have to revise how I will do the chains or I may scrap the idea and opt for a simpler decoration. I may scrap the two 'outer' chains and instead prefer for a simpler chain design from the chest. The factory is just gizmo-zip teeth. my scanner is probably 7 years old lol sorry for lack of clarity. I may work on this tomorrow but I just left it here incase someone saw something I didn't.

I dont think smoking biros are better then tobacco 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/raddicks/japanF.png
So I've been working on this picture for maybe 2 and a half hours now (45 mins to do the pencil/charcoal sketch) And I just think to myself (I've made a mistake and can't go back)

I maybe merged layers to quickly (I wanted to get the scarf over and done with) but oh well. Personally I think it looks flat and boring, and the scarfÃ,  has got me in serious confusion (I originally intended it to be 'soft furry' and my drawing hand is very quick in REAL LIFE sketching for fur and hair but i'm finding my Wacom not as intuitive or as useful as I hoped (I may have to abadon the idea and just go with a folded scarf, but now I'm just panicking over how I will do the folds because it was a massive change of plan)

I accidently rubbed out a bit of the initial sketch but this was unavoidable as I wanted to 'eye' out the sketch,  the ceiling may be a 3D render eventually (unless I change my mind if I feel this effort is problematic)

I am aware it probably looks better a bit desaturated but I'm using the colour scheme as it is so I can identify flaws (for the meantime). Also feel free to contribute to the image if you want too

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Idea: Elric - Something very surreal about this background, kinda like 'anything can happen'
Atmosphere: Elric again
Design: Simonez, you can tell there has been a lot of attention to detail!
Composition: Simonez, nice clean style
Functionality: Da_elf has a good understanding of space
Technique: Elric, it's breathtaking scenery, kinda dreamy

this was hard to judge but i will go in favour for Elric

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/raddicks/draculasspell-1.png
Silhoullettes are worth it, usually I ignore them but I think it helped working two colours then building up from there, made some sense.

At the time towers seemed like a good idea, then I realised there is not going to be any walking space hours after I didn't want to harm the detail so I screened in a checkered 3D plane I made. I liked the screen, I was so rushed for time so I will admit there isn't much to interactive with.

Oh yeah I hope it's not a big issue but I found the dracula face on google and filter/screened it on. Unfortunately I have 2 exams tuesday and wednesday so i had to rush

I like the game, and I'm currently replaying it due to being reminded by this topic.

Not viewed through innocent eyes though, I find the writing severely lacking, the game extremely linear, and the gameplay fairly uninteresting. It's still a good game considering when it was published (2000 if I'm not mistaken, too lazy to check), but it doesn't really add much to Alice in Wonderland. Though I dig the messed up Cheshire cat.

Totally agree with the linear play and not-so-brilliant gameplay,
I don't mind the fact its a bit linear, because if it was open ended, well... I would be spending about 5 times more time on the game to find out every 'nook and cranny'. It's my problem, like I will play final fantasy or Fallout and I will get stressed if I miss any NPC dialogue or easter eggs or item places etc. I just remember levels like 'Machinations' and some of the 'funhouse' style levels and it seems to be missing from most games. Banjo Kazooie strikes me as a game with a fun world.

You using Finaltoon or Imagine! ? I wouldnt say there was really a problem, maybe for her because her shorts look like they could just slide off any minute 

he has penguin legs dont you think?
I personally would have left the legs as it is but raise the torso higher

heh, when I read alley cat, I couldn't help but think of that 60's psychedelic Fritz the Cat film. After a rough day Fritz always has time for his favourite hobby :-)

I think some people are falling short of the essence of what a game is supposed to be, as far as originality - I'm sure almost everyone would of liked to imagine a 'dark wonderland', a kind of faery tale which allows for surrealist and possible scary interpretations if imagined. I'm not going to hold it against American McGee for being the first one to realise the 'dark' adaptation (I personally when I was 10 or 11 did sketches of the Wonderland world with a bit horror theme to them). I think talking about the 'shallow' or 'deepness' of games is going offtopic, if Alice was kept to the original victorian tale as a videogame it would have been a rather unsuccessful game.

Call wonderland a metaphor. The subtext, however cliche it may sound (almost every horror game features an asylum) provides an open platform to visually pervert and distort the classic, there is a philosophical backdrop to the Alice In Wonderland story anyway - rife with psychedelic, illogical and absurdist imagery but not without the rationality, innocence and beauty of the Wonderland. I don't think there is anything wrong to adapting classic if done well, I believe McGee's Alice is visually impressive with average gameplay (for the time) - None the less, I'd say Myst failed pretty miserably in terms of gameplay (even spawning the parody of Pyst) but people loved it because it was an immersive interactive novel of a sort. Wonderland is a world where anything can happen (like Wizard of Oz) and it seems to be very easy to dement metaphors to your own ends. For instance, Venetian Snares has controversial lolita cd-covers(may offend click at own risk) which in some twisted way can be described as art http://www.last.fm/music/Venetian+Snares/+albums. Some times with horror it can be used as a device to twist the seemingly innocent (think carnivals and clowns).

I'm not a fan of Tim Burton really, even though people love his style and artistic license. Maybe I would of liked him if he was relatively underground and not in the mainstream, because by the time it hits kids who think its all the more 'cool' to have Jack Skellington backpacks and badges I begin to think of it on verging on cliche and unoriginal. I think when you look back and get older, it's very easy to dismiss 'newer' things. For example, Indie used to be what it was 'independent' music which didn't really receive any airplay and was popular among university kids who liked to appreciate the break from the bombardment of mainstream music. Now alot of Indie is repetitive, under-produced, lacking any depth, meaningless lyrics and bordering on a cliche created by a subculture which took over.

It's like what happened to the Goth scene, which was quite romantic in mentality and celebrated individuality and artistry with real goth bands like Bauhaus, Kate Moss or Skinny Puppy (just a few). Hell, not even the 'goth' kids back in the day where going around dressed like Mansonites who shop at Hot Topic, it seems that once a fringe group of people gets recognition a fad develops from it. And sorry to go offtopic but this is really on-topic - It's very easy to criticise something for being 'to in your face' and not 'subtle'. For some older and more laidback individuals they can appreciate immersion without the visual metaphors and on dialogue and plot alone, but for other types of people - the philosophy (a painting says more then a thousand words) rings true. It just depends on your preference. Sure, it would of been nice for a 'dark wonderland' to be less 'in your face' with maybe an absinthe-drinking Mad Hatter speaking in Nietzschean-riddle-tongue (oh I wonder what Thus Spake Zaruthustra would be like if it was a videogame!). After all, alot of German Faerie Tales were originally very gruesome but due to christian-influence became much toned with word of mouth (some tales have pagan origin)

Sorry to revive the thread from the grave, I'm just quite fascinated when I heard Alice was going to become a movie in 2007 with Sarah Michelle Geller playing. Will it be quite pyschologically terrorfying or would it be another 'teenage-goth-cliche'? The jury is still out.

When I say bitmaps are expensive. It's very hard to fit Bitmap reliant adventures with a limit of 5mb on a site like newgrounds - not to mention sound files and ambiance is limited to lossy audio.

Fred - That sounds like a rather useful feature. I don't know anything about Unity 3D, but it certainly wouldn't hurt for a community web-based game with advertisement leading here. What is the process involved in turning offline game into an online one? Is it Java/flash based or what?

Oh yeah, I do admit to using flash/swift 3d for the vector art whenever i want a 3D realistic perspective (I then import it into photoshop and touch it up a bit). I'm still yet to learn 3D Studio Max 8, but I haven't had the time yet.

Why won't you just send them e-mail and tell them about AGS then?

I'm not exactly the authority, i think it would be useful if a vet of the AGS engine pitches the idea. So if the person considers it, has also a knowledgeble friend to help them changeover programming styles.

I'm just an artist, know very little if any programming.