Messages

[blueskirt:]

Thanks y'all! 

Most bodies of water in the original were in fact not animated. Where they were though, the following technique was used:

They were animated by me first painting what I thought the reflection should look like in still, and then mirroring it upside down and uploading it to any random "generate awesome water effect on my image" website and then cropping away everything but the water. It worked beautifully and was truly effortless. I recommend this process to anyone who's working on a low-res animated backdrop.

The problem with simply applying the effect on what you want to reflect, is that it becomes too clean, and simply looks too "generated". You would likely get the same problem with a module that does the job for you. The positive thing with using a module I suppose, is that in theory you could make it reflect your character and other dynamic items too. Needless to say, thats cool and enhances immersion. (Like those kickass waterpuddles in mccartthy).

-

In the HD release though, we are indeed using 3d tools and raytracing to achieve more "realistic" reflections. They look rather mundane in still but look absolutely gorgeous when in motion. The tricky bit has been making them loop over time seamlessly, while also keeping down the amount of frames to something bearable performance-wise.

blueskirt: I'm glad you agree that the whole "brand" works better in HD. To me it's mindboggling how often people cling to low-res stuff "just because". It does serve many brands well though, but for TJD, I didn't really feel it was the best way to go. I was losing so much detail it hurt me just looking at it.

I totally agree with you that from an independent developer's standpoint, being stuck with technology that only works on one platform is a bit of a bummer. Let's hope AGS sees changes on these fronts in the future!

[Some new screenies!]

heh don't worry duals, you'll see me haunting these forums 'til the end of time.  8)

Some new screenies!











See them in higher-res over at the official webpage!

[Sprites aren't imported into the editor with weird ID's. They are called upon with one single thing and that is their location and filename -there is no weird abstraction in between the original asset and the one used in the engine.]

I'd rather see Markus answer the techy questions but I'll gladly share one major difference between GobEd and AGS which has made my life (and Henrik's) one bajillion times easier:

Sprites aren't imported into the editor with weird ID's. They are called upon with one single thing and that is their location and filename -there is no weird abstraction in between the original asset and the one used in the engine.

For a "common" AGS user who builds smaller games, this wouldn't really be an issue. But for a larger production with literally thousands and thousands of frames of animation, being able to simply re-render our frames into the same folder as the originals and then just hit run and see the changes... is absolutely invaluable. Also, since we don't have to rebuild the sprite file every time we start up after adding assets, we save tons of time every time we start up the game. Again, not an issue for a smaller project, but JDHD in AGS took several minutes to start every time I made the teeensiest change in any of the sprites. That was a MAJOR disruption in my work-flow.

[armageddon]

Thanks guys! I appreciate the kind words and asspats a lot. It pushes me and my fellow SkyGoblins along beautifully. 

armageddon: heh, well spotted. I mocked up the whole bend in 3d to ensure that the train would zoom off in the distance with correct perspective, and some of the wireframe stuck. Me lazy.  : The whole horizon has been repainted too, come to think of it. This is an old screenshot.

m0ds: We are currently hellbent on self publishing it 100%. We've been doing it with our other title "Nord" the past few years so we are getting used to the concept. (That doesn't mean we're any good at it though, but we prefer our own incompetence rather than other people's.)  But who knows what happens in the end...

zyndikate: You have no idea. Ever since me and my fiancée got our daughter (half a year ago) I've had zero free time. But thanks to the fact that we took on TJD as a commercial project, I get to work with it almost eight hours a day. Pretty much as awesome as it gets. Our financial situation is gasoline-ass volatile though, but that's the way its been for well over five years now, we're used to it.  8)

I hope to be able to post a couple new screens this week, so keep your eyes peeled.

Thanks again.

[About time I do the official "OMG we have left AGS" post, I guess.]

About time I do the official "OMG we have left AGS" post, I guess.

Yeah it's true. We've decided to build our own home-grown tech for the HD release of The Journey Down. Why? Because building the engine from scratch turns out to be more fun, put simply. Also, if we build it from scratch we'll be the masters of our limitations, something we much prefer compared to being at the mercy of someone else's. Our current goal is to release chapter one HD in Q1 2012 on Pc, Mac, iOS and android - Something that would have been pretty much impossible if we were to cling to our old AGS ways, for very many different reasons.

For those not familiar with TJD, chapter one was released last year as a free AGS game and can be found here. Since then, me and my buddies at SkyGoblin have decided to re-release chapter one in HD with speech and added story and puzzles, but this time as a commercial project, not built in AGS.

Our hope in releasing a HD version of chapter one is to set the bar at a level awesome enough to ensure the commercial viability of keeping up the work on the coming chapters. If that works or not though, remains to be seen!

The sales pitch:

The Journey Down is a classic point 'n click saga with a black African twist, owing much of its character and pattern design to traditional central African arts such as carvings and masks from the Makonde and Chokwe tribes. Mixed with an all original jazzy reggae soundtrack, feedback-oriented puzzles and tons of hand painted environments, the unique cultural fusion of The Journey Down is bound to draw you in.

In the first part of four, Over the Edge, our hero Bwana and his trusted sidekick Kito struggle to make ends meet at their run-down gas station. One day their lives turn upside down as they're thrown into a twisting plot of corruption, laughs and brainteasing adventure.

Follow the development of The Journey Down on skygoblin.com, and check out more screenshots over at the official webpage.





PS. Do you guys mind if I use this thread to spam updates about the game's progress? I realise the information is not as relevant now that it is no longer an AGS project, but the more channels we can spam, the bigger the odds we'll actually be able to reach out with this huge pile o pixels.

Peace. 

Your composition is leading the poor viewer straight of the cliff.  :o

I'd recommend adding another plane of mountains in the distance to get your horizon in order.

Keep it up!

[Awards room:]

I agree with Ilyich , your "original style" rocks, and I see no reason to replace it really. Though as an artist, I understand and respect your will to explore and try new stuff. Challenges are a big part of the fun.

My best tip if you want to work more with volumes is to CONSTANTLY think about your light sources. Having few distinct sources that you quickly can braintrace is a very good idea. Casting light is about always making approximations whether a certain area will be affected by a light source or not. Failing to do so always results in flatness and a more difficult picture for the viewer to read. After all, we read volumes pretty much entirely after how they are shaded.

On a side note, I too usually start out with line work and then gradually paint on top of it until it in the end pretty much disappears. The only times I do sketching with areas instead of lines is when I'm trying out shapes, especially organic ones such as nature or characters. Different artists prefer different approaches to the blocking out of their scenes though, so if you're comfy with starting out with lines, heck, start out with lines. I find it easier to do my shading if I first have a pretty solid linework idea of where I've got my different volumes, their angles, and how they all hang together. Painting volumes from scratch, at least for me, often feels like I'm doing too many things at once and thus risks it all just winding up in a big blur of unfinished shapes and ideas. But again, it's all about preference.

Some feedback then.


Awards room:

I think it looks real good and I like the paintover too. My usual complaint would be "ADD A FOREGROUND" but I'm not sure how well that would mesh with how this scene is intended to be used. The audience will, in fact, act as foreground here which is pretty weird but very cool from an artistic perspective. Compositionally I hope the character sprites will be very dark, thus helping frame the scene and putting focus there instead of on the crowd.


Basement:

There's no reason for your shadow to be blue. Blue is the color of outdoor shadows when there's a clear blue sky. This scene has no clear blue sky. The only source of light in this scene is the little warm lamp on the roof of the shed. Hence, the color of the rest of the scene should reflect this and also be warm because of bounced light.

This is not what I would do though.

I would add a second cold light source from above/beyond, representing moon or starlight filtering through the basement windows, adding cold higlights allover the place to contrast the warm shed-lamp. Pretty much exactly what I did in the harbor scene you linked to. This will allow you to keep your shadows nice and cold, and will add a ton of ambiance to the scene due to the warm/cool lighting.


Kitchen:

I think it looks great, though I would agree with previous poster however that the circular lit area on the floor feels a bit awkward. If you still want to keep that stylistic on/off shading look you've got (which is cool, btw) - I'd say keep the shading but change the shape of it so it feels more believable that this area has beeen shaped by the window, from which I presume the light is coming. More square, simply. Maybe even add a window-cross in the middle of it to really define where the light is coming from.

If you intend to shift this scene to a more volume based shading technique, go back to the basics and ask yourself "why can I see this object? - "What/which sources of light can reach it, and with what intensity?".

-

I look forward to Nelly II! Keep up the good work.

Lookin' great, Ali! Good job.

Would be fun with a non interactive exterior shot as well. Skylights 'n all!  8)

Particle effects and please make the stage explode at the end plus a motorbike stunt. Cheers Duals  

Agreed. Apart from the glaring lack of explosions and bike stunts, last years show pretty much had everything you could ask for.  

Using ogg video for presenting stuff is a good idea though since it would give viewers a way better insight into the games being presented (provided someone finds the time to actually produce these videos - a task not to be underestimated in size)... And on a more technical side of things you'd have to find some way to sync the sound with the video.

I look forward to the next ceremony, whenever it is! I was very impressed with how well it worked out technically last time around.

Hey guys, I just wanted to drop a line and say good work on this! I played through it the other day and had a blast with it all the way through.

My first concerns regarding the backdrop style turned out to be somewhat unfounded. When I was actually playing the game and not just looking at screenshots I thought the whole style worked great. The only thing I found myself missing visually was that wider spectrum of scenery as seen in Convergence, for an instance. The environments did become somewhat samey and thus bland, but this is nitpicking. Also I have a hard time with portraits, but I always do, so this can be ignored. 

Apart from a select few over the top dialog puzzles I loved the whole thing from a gameplay standpoint. Again I salute you for stuffing so much solid gameplay into your environments! I envy your talent at reusing puzzles and locations without having them feel over-done. kudos.

As with previous games I found myself caring a lot more for the individual sub-plots than anything connected to a wider story arc, but this I believe is merely me not liking to constantly be on a "you'll find out on the next episode" leash.

The music and voice acting was brilliant as always. I loved the dialog. Joey delivered some extra sweet lines this time around and many of them put a grin on my face. I loved the whole exchange between him and Red when Joey gets that kiss from the girl at the night club. Heh, that was hillarious.

I'm willing to say in fact, that I enjoyed this even more than the brilliant Crackwell unhinged, and thats no easy game to beat.

Good job guys, I look forward to whatever you come up with next! (make more cool stuff with jburger!!!)

[Corby:]

I do think Snarky's right that the problem is caused by lack of foreshortening on the bricks

Yes, it is perfectly true that this is part of the problem. And why do we get this problem? You guessed it - we are being trolled by awkwardly offset one point perspective, which renders the two walls way to similar to one another. Proper foreshortening is not voodoo, it is the results of obeying the laws of perspective. Of course, you can circumvent the problem with all sorts of tricks, but understanding the root of the issue will allow you to make even better fixes, and in the long run, perhaps avoid the problem all together.

Man, I realize I come off sounding like a gripey old d1ck here, but I can't help being passionate about perspective.  :

.. And composition for that matter.  8) Making it through both my fascist-design filters is no easy task. 

Corby:

I personally would have added another vanishing point somewhere roughly half a screen outside of your right edge, and used that to draw all the perspective for your walls that are now directly facing the camera. But that's me. Many people are content with having flat on walls in AG's, it is incredibly common, and I see no one except me complaining about it, so perhaps take it all with a pinch of salt, eh?

Having several sets of 90 degree vanishing points is definitely by the rules, but means that the objects you draw with one set of them will be rotated compared to objects drawn with the other set. The only thing you need to be sure of is to have an equal distance between your vanishing points, since this is the width of your camera lens, and the width of the lens, for obvious reasons, doesn't change on a per object basis.

Similarly, you can move vanishing points up and down or rotate them, and thus tilt/pitch the objects that you are drawing with those vanishing points.

I would like to add to my rant that I too like the look of your setting, It looks very promising and I look forward to seeing you finish it, no matter where you take it. 

[Some additional thoughts on one-point in AG's:]

(even if he added another vanishing point, it still wouldn't change the perspective on this wall, after all).

Ah, but this is where you misunderstand the problem. The issue lies not with the wall to the right, but with all the other walls in direct 90 degree angle to that wall. Since these other walls are all parallel and horizontal on screen instead of vanishing of to their own vanishing point, the wall to the right sticks out as looking awkward and is perceived as being bonkers perspective-wise, when in fact there is nothing wrong with that particular wall at all. Perspective just, like hue, value, saturation, are all relative things in a piece of art and are because of this totally dependent on how they are being handled not only on the object you are painting, but also the objects surrounding it.

Other than this issue (where we are going to have to agree to disagree), I'd agree with most of your points, specifically the shading one. Making sure the two walls have different shading is crucial no matter how "correct" your perspective is.

Some additional thoughts on one-point in AG's:

One point perspective should in my eyes be used restrictively and only when it serves a compositional purpose, such as leading the eye down a corridor. One-point is however incredibly common in AG's, and for a good reason; due to the horizontal nature of such scenes, they create good, easy to read and control "gaming environments" when used correctly. I just don't like them, from an artistic standpoint, Since they tend to screw up the composition with all their nasty parallel lines, yuck. 

I disagree with theo ( :o ) that the perspective can't work. It's not that far away from the vanishing point.

I wasn't saying it can't work as a backdrop, I was explaining why the perspective on the wall looked off, even though he seemingly followed the rules of one-point perspective. Which was, after all, what he asked about. Anyhow, I'm a hard-line perspective-nazi so most of my rantings on this topic should be read with this in mind  8)

One point perspective is great when your vanishing point is relatively close to the center of the image. It is an ok cheat since horizontal lines in such scenes usually pretty much line up paralell to one another. In this case however your vanishing point is too far from the center for this trick to fool the eye. Thus your perspective looks broken. I recommend solving this by either moving your vanishing point to the center, or better yet, add another vanishing point.

Nice move, man! these new sprites look a lot better.   

Heh, "cave terrorists: 0" cracked me up.
kudos for trying new things anyhow.  8)

Looks very ambitious! I like the "cutscene" art. Will check it out when time permits!

Congrats on releasing your baby. 

[every]

I am only a player, but I think that you can't throw the „look at“ away for every game, it depends on the game itself.

Yup. It really is that easy. In many games, complex interactions are awesome, in many, they suck. It totally depends on the type of puzzle and how the setting and mood is being delivered to the player. All I'm lobbying for is to use multiple interactions with caution and to first ask yourself if you, as the designer, are in fact going to use them. If not, throw 'em out! Obviously it's also a matter of taste. Fortunately we don't all have the same preferences, and as a result all sorts of different kinds of games are developed. 

I've learned my lesson with the latest game (Monte Cristo): it has ONE hero and ONE kind of click. As a result I can spend far more time on the story, and produce a much better game.

Yeah, this too is a BIG DEAL when designing a game. For shorter games, it's not an issue, but when you start piling up on the lines it gets to be one hell of a lot of work. Not only writing all the specific dialog, but scripting it and recording the darn lines becomes a gigantic project. (I'm talking from experience, Bwana has no lookats, but has over 1300 lines) From a broader "what makes a good game" perspective, I suppose this isn't relevant, but for us small-time developers it makes a world of difference.

Frankly, Point n click games in general could do with less forms of interaction. Generally there are way too many ways to interact with items in point and click games, which in my opinion truly breaks immersion and only serves the purpose to frustrate and confuse the player. I see now in the vincetwelve article that me and vince seem to share the same thoughts here. Though perhaps I would argue that it can be taken one step further. To me, once I opened up the box of "left click does almost everything", I figured I might as well go all the way and call it "left click does everything". It does wonders for flow and immersion.

That said, I do find the right click = "examine" a nice feature in many games, but only where it actually serves a real purpose and is used consistently. Generally 95% of hotspots won't benefit from this feature and thus as a whole the feature adds more confusion and badness (as the feedback will likely be "I see nothing special about it") than goodness to the overall game experience.

The desk is a good example of interaction redundancy. If the desk where in JD and I wanted the player to get a clue from its looks AND be able to open a drawer to look for contents, I'd either have two hotspots, one for the drawer and one for the desk surface, and have bwana open the drawer when clicking the draer, and talk about the surface when clicking the surface, or I'd go for my old JD trick of simply having a Game.DoOnceOnly on one single "desk" hotspot. This is a great way of making the first click be the desired "action" and the following clicks be an "examine", where this for gameplay or story reasons is necessary. I do it all over the place in JD and it works beautifully. This second solution should be used with caution though, specifically if the hotspot has an obvious "verb" use to it, but the character talks about it instead of doing the desired action - this will frustrate the hell out of the player.

In short: In general I'd rather have more hotspots than mouse modes. It's less obscuring and hence, better.

[Armageddon:]

Armageddon: Yeah, I know he's a bit flat here. This is just a viewport look at Kito, and not a render. Once we put him in our render scene he'll get a wider range of lighting, I promise Glad you like the look of him anyhow!

Kooky123: Thanks for the kind words! If you're a bit of a hacker, you can download the "custom resolution" version of AGS from: https://gitorious.org/skygoblinags/. Whether this stuff will ever become an official part of AGS though, is anybody's guess.

Sughly: I can promise you that it's looking great I don't know if we'll be able to keep them all, but right now Bwana has over 10 different talk animations to act out his dialog with. It's awesome seeing him ooze of emotion that way! Only heavy part is actually implementing them all. There are SO MANY lines of dialog I feel faint just thinking about it, heh.