There is something seriously ridiculous about AGS reviews

[Tabata]

Lapsking, even if I was entertained by your games I am very disappointed about your behavior here.

If you can't stand how the ratings and feedback works here (even several people tried to explain it to you patiently) get over it or just delete your games from the database. You are free to upload those somewhere else that feels more comfortable to you.

But please stop trolling my AGS-family that offer such a lot of their time to run this forum and help those in need. 
They all deserve skudos and more respect than you are obviously able or willing to give.

[lapsking]

Do you know what does AGS "PANEL" mean? Fortunately, my mother language is not English and I had to look it up in dictionary. Maybe you should do the same thing.

Yes, I do know. There is a panel, a group of people, who have been selected as reviewers. One of those reviewers reviews each game. The fact that each game is reviewed by only one panel member has been discussed extensively in the past.

You didn't know, and that is perhaps a signal that what it means could be communicated more clearly, but it's a perfectly valid term for the system in place.

So you think it means could be communicated more clearly, but at the same time you think it's a "perfectly" valid term for the system in place. Thanks, that's all I wanted to know. Sorry, for being traffic.

[Snarky]

The AGS community doesn't know each other. We don't go on picnics together without inviting you and make fun of you while munching egg sandwiches.

Uh, this is not entirely true, Babar. Some of us do know each other, and have in fact held picnics—though I can neither confirm nor deny the egg sandwiches.

[Snarky]

So you think it means could be communicated more clearly, but at the same time you think it's a "perfectly" valid term for the system in place. Thanks, that's all I wanted to know. Sorry, for being traffic.

Those statements are not in conflict, but I will attribute your failure to see that to the language barrier.

[lapsking]

So you think it means could be communicated more clearly, but at the same time you think it's a "perfectly" valid term for the system in place. Thanks, that's all I wanted to know. Sorry, for being traffic.

Those statements are not in conflict, but I will attribute your failure to see that to the language barrier.

Yes, exactly, we have language barrier. In my English what could be more clear is not perfect.

[Snarky]

In the phrase "perfectly valid," "perfectly" is an adverb modifying "valid," not a separate adjective. So it is not saying the term is "perfect," it's saying it is 100% valid.

[lapsking]

In the phrase "perfectly valid," "perfectly" is an adverb modifying "valid," not a separate adjective. So it is not saying the term is "perfect," it's saying it is 100% valid.

So it means a review that hasn't been done by a group of people can be called panel and it's "perfectly" valid term. It's getting complicated, I'll ask my wife to translate these for me. She is proudly native English speaker.

[Snarky]

Each panel rating is done by one person, but the panel ratings collectively are done by a group of people. It's pretty routine for panels to delegate particular tasks to individual members, so yes, this is a perfectly valid use of the term.

But I don't really believe that this is your true concern. As you've already said:

Maybe "The Order" got to 2 cups if it was really reviewed by so-called non-existence AGS panel. And The Will got 4 cups. Then I would be happy.

So it's really about your dissatisfaction with the ratings you got.

[lapsking]

Were my games rated and reviewd by a panel, Mr. Perfect?

[lapsking]

I have another question. How can one delete games from AGS database? I feel I published my game in an inappropriate atmosphere. Since I'm the author I think there should be a delete button? I told Snarky you would look even worse, he thought I'm joking. I'm not a joker, kid.

[Snarky]

I didn't think you were joking, but I also don't think you are capable of seeing things very clearly at the moment.

To delete a game from the database you can ask a moderator to do it. Is that what you want? One or both?

[lapsking]

I didn't think you were joking, but I also don't think you are capable of seeing things very clearly at the moment.

To delete a game from the database you can ask a moderator to do it. Is that what you want? One or both?

Both please. Neither of them were rated or reviewed by AGS panel. You are a global moderater and I'm telling you.

[Rik_Vargard]

@lapsking , you know, everyone here understands what it takes to make a game.
You give it your all, day and night, whenever you finally have some time.
You push yourself and are inspired by others to do your very best, helped by the people on the Tech forums without whom your game wouldn't even exist.
And you do it for weeks, months, even years.
Finally, you finished it and you got to a personal point when you can proudly tell yourself this is the best thing you've ever done in AGS.
And then you share it with the world.
I've been there all my life. I've had all sorts of reviews and stars and stuff.
Some were harmful, some were constructive and some were inspiring.

I learned three things back then:
- As a creator you can give it all and more and there will always be people who go "Meh..." .
  And they have the right to, because:
- They're  giving an opinion on a final product, not on the way of the artist to get there.
- Whatever you think of your personal masterpiece, it's just a step stone to the next one.

I think the problem here is ego.
At such a point that even LimpingFish had to come explain things to you.
At such a point that everyone is trying to explain, understand, question things, for four pages.
But no, you keep biting back, attacking, insulting.
I think that, whatever the emotions, justified or not, you do keep some decency and dignity.

And then you said it: You want the panel to work the way you want it to work, and even more: You get to decide what score the panel should give you for your games.

Do you realize how this sounds?

I hope you'll take the time to re-read this whole topic and see what people tried to do for you here.
Because your words and your attitude were highly unfair and insulting to say the least.
I also hope that at one point you will remember why you wanted to make adventure games in the first place. And that you'll remember how fun it is here, with all those creative people working on their games, inspiring each other.

[lapsking]

@lapsking , you know, everyone here understands what it takes to make a game.
You give it your all, day and night, whenever you finally have some time.
You push yourself and are inspired by others to do your very best, helped by the people on the Tech forums without whom your game wouldn't even exist.
And you do it for weeks, months, even years.
Finally, you finished it and you got to a personal point when you can proudly tell yourself this is the best thing you've ever done in AGS.
And then you share it with the world.
I've been there all my life. I've had all sorts of reviews and stars and stuff.
Some were harmful, some were constructive and some were inspiring.

I learned three things back then:
- As a creator you can give it all and more and there will always be people who go "Meh..." .
  And they have the right to, because:
- They're  giving an opinion on a final product, not on the way of the artist to get there.
- Whatever you think of your personal masterpiece, it's just a step stone to the next one.

I think the problem here is ego.
At such a point that even LimpingFish had to come explain things to you.
At such a point that everyone is trying to explain, understand, question things, for four pages.
But no, you keep biting back, attacking, insulting.
I think that, whatever the emotions, justified or not, you do keep some decency and dignity.

And then you said it: You want the panel to work the way you want it to work, and even more: You get to decide what score the panel should give you for your games.

Do you realize how this sounds?

I hope you'll take the time to re-read this whole topic and see what people tried to do for you here.
Because your words and your attitude were highly unfair and insulting to say the least.
I also hope that at one point you will remember why you wanted to make adventure games in the first place. And that you'll remember how fun it is here, with all those creative people working on their games, inspiring each other.

No you don't still get the point. I respected AGS so much and still I do (obviously, not as much as before). I had reviews more than "meh". Someone just made an account to give my game 0 or 1 out of 10 in the reviews. You guys still don't get it, I have no connection with media but someone can use this forum and edit AGS Wikipedia page and tell the world how the rating and reviewing system works. If you can be honest with yourselves there is no thing such as AGS panel rating or review. Each game is rated or reviewed by only 1 person. Then what's the point of it, abolish it. Audience ratings and reviews are enough. But still it seems you can't comprehend. And what bothers more than reviews and ratings is the fact that I don't see honesty here. My English is terrible, but it can be considered fraud (maybe not legally, but at least morally). If someone makes money with this system, you know , maybe it can even become illegal. I don't know much about laws.

[lapsking]

By the way another reason I deleted my games was to tell you there was/is no personal interest involved, in case anyone is struggling to understand that.

[Crimson Wizard]

By the way another reason I deleted my games was to tell you there was/is no personal interest involved, in case anyone is struggling to understand that.

One thing amazing about this is how you claim certain goal, but achieve the opposite impression. After every addition or edit to your post(s) your position begins to look worse.
And you still cannot avoid putting condescending remarks into your posts... I mean "struggling to understand" in this case.

[Babar]

Yes, it definitely seems like a language barrier issue here.
You seem to think that "AGS Ratings Panel" means that there is a team of X number of people where all of them play a specific game, and they all give a rating, and then the rating is averaged.

That is your assumption. Maybe something you assumed because of your own interpretation of "AGS Ratings Panel".
There was never any claim or assertion from anybody at any point relating to AGS that the Panel rating involved multiple people playing your game and then giving a rating and having it averaged.

I would be curious if anyone else here thought that is how it worked. Nobody ever said any such thing, and all discussion of the Ratings Panel (including the FAQ that I linked from 15 years ago) always made it very clear how it worked. If you thought about it for a few moments, you'd realise your assumption was quite absurd:

In your mind, a group of...lets say 20 people, in their own free time, with no salary or payment, who have various levels of activity online or on the forums (one of who passed away a few years back), would go through the AGS DB, and each of them would play every single one of the thousands of games in the same sequence and give it a rating, then wait for every other member of the panel to also do the same, then have it averaged to show as the panel rating?

[lapsking]

Panel: a small group of people brought together to investigate or decide on a particular matter.

Did a group of people come together to investigate or decide on a particular matter (a game)? Or each of them was separately investigating a separate matter (game)?

There is no language barrier, unless it's from you.

What's the point of AGS reviews panel, if only one person is going to do that? Is AGS panel a person?

[lapsking]

By the way another reason I deleted my games was to tell you there was/is no personal interest involved, in case anyone is struggling to understand that.

One thing amazing about this is how you claim certain goal, but achieve the opposite impression. After every addition or edit to your post(s) your position begins to look worse.
And you still cannot avoid putting condescending remarks into your posts... I mean "struggling to understand" in this case.

What's my goal? I'll give 10000 cash if you tell me what's my goal? What's amazing is the number of people that need to try to defend one by one that AGS panel review is "perfect". It's amazing.

[Babar]

Yes, it definitely does seem like there is a language barrier at play here. No, "Your game was rated by the AGS Rating Panel" does not inherently imply that multiple people played your game and collaborated to decide on a rating. Such a system would be impossible, and we'd never get any ratings done at all (even as it is, the Ratings panel is far behind the released games).