Star Wars Movies

[Matchew]

I might be wrong, but it seems to me that the new Star Wars movies are not of the same quality as the originals. Both in SFX and storylines. The value of the visuals is close to nil as the costumes and carachters are decidedly poor and rendered in CGI
they may be the best available visual effects available, but it's still obvious, to prove my point, consider this, in the Return of the Jedi the scene where the emperor lands on the death star II is filled with costumed extras in Imperial uniforms, and although it is true that they are plastic and decidedly basic, they are ten times more realistic and cooler than the scene in Ep II where all the CGI clones (no pun intended) march.
I believe that physical sets and mass produced costumes are more pleasing to the eye that CGI will ever be.
And the lack of consistency sickens me, I mean, wouldn't c-3po actually recognise Darth Vader as his master?, Why is Anakin so young when ep 1 is set fifty years before ep 4 and ep 3 is set 18 years before ep 4?
And a long time before ep 1 happened, there was a mandalorian war, which turned most jedi to the dark side. A jedi civil-war followed where most jedi were wiped out. even the jedi council on Coruscant was wiped out long before the films. so how exactly does Lucas expect to explain all this???
I think we'd be better off without prequels and maybe it would be better if Lucas didn't direct the new ones, I mean the Empire Strikes back was the best star wars film ever made, and Irvin Kerschner directed it.

In short, the new Star Wars saga (which funnily enough is an old one) is a complete mess.

[McMurphy]

Exactly, and i noticed that Qui-Gon is never mentioned in ep's 4-6, even when Ben is talking about when he trained anakin of his own free will, which he didnt. Qui-gon bet him with a jack danials bottle until he accepted! but realistically, theres such a lack of consistency that it makes me sick too  :'(

[Matchew]

I think we all know it was a half-drunken can of Dutch Gold, but seriously.

[Radiant]

I'm not sure where the Mandalorian war happens, but it probably isn't canon. Even if it was written by Timothy Zahn, his canonness can be trumped by George Lucas.

That said, I agree that a lot of plot things are tacked on. And while the films do have their decidedly cool scenes (e.g. Boba Fett vs Obi-Wan), they lack the atmosphere of the originals. It's just too over the top (film I: huge leviathan monster eaten by an even bigger one; jar jar really must die; tying anakin with C3PO is forced; using midoclhirans or whatever to explain mysticism bugs me; maul is nowhere near as cool as vader, and having a painted skin don't help; having anakin take down a star destroyer age 10 is deus ex machina) (film 2: the entire romance scene is ridicululously overdone; the Anakin/Obiwan conflict feels forced; Boba Fett's baby clone doesn't make much sense character-wise, they could easily have made him a non-human that lives longer; the factory scene was overdone as well; and Joda should have been able to beat that evil guy, simply by force-moving his friends rather than the heavy pillar).

Still, the plot for III looks promising. And hey, how many hollywood films actually end in disaster?

[Matchew]

I beg to differ about Maul, it's not that he ain't cool, he just didn't have any signifigance to the plot, why kill him off in the first film, I mean, Deus ex machina or what (even more obvious than your Anakin example) It was also agreed when Lucas lisenced out the rights for authors to write books he accepted all answers to tie in to the Star Wars universe, and as such he agreed on all decisions made by the authors. In other words, the books are as relevant as the first three films (the old/new ones)
The same thing was done with the matrix and it's sadly shite game, where you have to play the game to understand where the third film starts.

[Babar]

Canon??? What, Star Wars is already formed a religion? The far seeing Farlander predicted this, but I never thought I would live to see it!


Seriously (if it is possible to be serious about Star Wars), I never got why QuiGon didn't "disappear" like all the other Jedi. In my Star Wars fanatic day I even asked them once, but their answer was something along the lines of "It'll all be explained in the next movie".
I stopped taking Star Wars seriously after Episode 1. I was able to enjoy 2 much better than. Stuff like the Queen's "Leather mating suit" made me laugh out loud.

[Darth Mandarb]

I'm confused how people can say there are plot inconsistencies before Episode III has been released?

I agree that there are some things about the prequels that bother me.  But saying that there are inconsistencies between the prequels and the OT is rather silly.  George Lucas is (to me) one of the greatest story tellers of all time.  I'm pretty sure these 'loose-ends' will be tied up in ep3.  At least I hope so.

The one 'plot' consistency that I feel must be addressed are the midicholrians.  Midichlorians MUST be explained away/about in Ep. III.  This is the the one main thing that irks me terribly.  If they are so pivotal to force potential, why doesn't Ben tell Luke about them in the OT?  I have a few theories, but I'm not going to go into them now.

I think the updated visuals actually works to the favor of the prequels.  The time-frame of the prequels is supposed to be a 'more civilized' time.  The galaxy was in good shape with high technology.  Years of war and imperial oppression cause the dingy run-down look of the OT.  Again, just my opinion.

As for Darth Maul's significance?  The prequels already mirror the OT so much, I think it was a great idea to introduce an 'all powerful sith' who gets whacked in half in the first film.  Think about it:

Young boy taken off Tatooine by an older Jedi gets caught up in a galactic conflict and blows up a large space craft in the end after his master is killed by a dark lord of the sith.

That description works for both A New Hope and Phantom Menace ... so killing Maul differentiated the two, but still leaves the connection.  To me, that's great story telling.

Episode I actually takes place 32 years before A New Hope.  View the Star Wars Timeline to see what I mean.  (Although it includes many non-canon stuff, the movies are listed properly.)

My one major gripe about the prequels is the dialogue.  For some reason it just doesn't feel as good as the dialogue from the originals.  But I think this is Lucas' directing, rather than poor dialogue.  I think the man is an incredible story teller, but his directing leaves something to be desired.

I do enjoy a good Star Wars discussion ... however, I think the bashing about 'plot holes' and 'inconsistancies' should really be held in reserve until after we've all seen Episode III.

[Blackthorne]

See, I don't buy into the canon of the EU at all, so none of that matters to me.

I've been entertained by Episodes I & II.  I still love the OT better, but I've been entertained.  That's all that matters.

What doesn't "entertain" me is
a) I can't get the original release OT on DVD
b) Fan-Boys who love to proclaim the Prequel Trilogy "Teh Suck"

Bt

[MrColossal]

Good news for me then! I'm not a fan boy and I think the new movies suck!

Rock on with me!

What I miss from the first movies to these new ones is whenever a big door would open up all the actors would stand still and they'd speed up the film cause the door was too heavy for Jimmy the Door Wrangler to lift by himself... Ah low-tech

[PaulSC]

Ah, yet another of the most over-discussed subjects on the internet, along with George Bush and "Reasons why the Simpsons isn't good anymore".

I'll chip in anyway. The ludicrous amount of hate piled on the Star Wars prequels on the internet only makes me want to like them. And I do! Within reason anyway.

The characters, acting and dialogue are weaker on the whole, and they lack charm, but if you can look past that and drop any convoluted ideas about what you'd rather they were, I find there's actually a lot to enjoy in them. CGI or not, the films often look lovely, they have some great action sequences and the way the story is contructed so as to have the key plotline of the emperor's rise to power occuring almost entirely in the background is quite cleverly done. I certainly rank them far above most of the summer blockbusters of recent years.

It's kind of interesting that I only started appreciating the prequels after i'd pretty much lost interest in Star Wars, though (interesting to me, anyway). I don't really feel that strongly about any of them, these days, but I'm looking forward to the next one.

[Darth Mandarb]

a) I can't get the original release OT on DVD

You can't? 

[TheYak]

I've got to agree with most of the shortcomings listed.  For my part, I mainly feel let down by the prequels because they haven't got any charaters I've got the slightest interest in.  This should change a bit in Episode 3, perhaps making it all worthwhile. 

Taken on their own, they're not bad films, but I'll take the Solo, Chewie, Lando trio over the Queen, Jar-jar, Obi-Wan (MacGregor-style) any day.  I've never been a huge fan but was interested when I first heard about the sequels.   I was let down, but only when comparing the soul of the first 3 to the sterility of the prequels.  There comes a point where you've just gotta shrug your shoulders and relegate yourself to the fact that it's George's invention and his property so he'll do what he likes with 'em.   

As for getting the original trilogy, I could care less about seeing the original versions - except for those damned CGI insertions that stick out like a sore thumb.  Being very into graphics (3d and otherwise) I don't generally deplore their usage but it looks like crap inserted into the hardware vs. software effects world of IV-VI. 

Most of what I've heard about the upcoming Ep. 3 sounds good.  I've seen the first 5 minutes (with some placeholder renderings) and it seemed a good intro (if a bit busy)

Spoiler

space dogfight with Anakin & Obi vs. a crapload of ships and drones, a little weak since you know the two main characters aren't in any danger but cool nonetheless

[close]

But then again, George has said there's going to be a lot more action in this one with major events and fights happening throughout the entire movie  - necessarily to fill in all gaps between II and IV but here's hoping it's not catering too much to the low-attention-span generation.

[Matchew]

I think we should clear up this fact first, CGI is not at the stage where it is indistinguishable, If anybody read the latest copy of Empire Magazine, they would have seen the picture of yoda sitting with Obi-wan and mace windu in one of the drop ships, now, I ask you (those who have seen the pic that is) does the picture seem real to you, (Besides the actors of course), do the two clones seem real?, does Yoda? I speak for everybody when I say no.

As regards the maul debate, Darth Maul is a fuckin deadly dark jedi, he killed a jedi master fer cryin out loud, do you think it's possible that an apprentice could defeat him? (consider Luke VS Vader in ep 5) I think it would have been a better climax if Obi wan fell and we would not know his fate until later in the film (like the Lord of the Rings). Maul would have kicked ass in ep ii if he survived, I think that Lucas created the character too hastily without considering future events, and late in the writing of the story, he just killed him off.

To address the year difference between the first film and the fourth, It was announced at the completion of the first that it was set fifty years before (or thereabouts) the fourth, and was later changed.

The clones are the worst thing about ep ii, even if they were all Jango's clones, that doesn't explain their Aussie accents, it's not like things like aussie twangs are hereditary.

And last but not least, the whole boba fett storyline is completely poor and rushed, why couldn't he be the son of Zam wessel (or whatever the shape-shiftin cow wuz called), it would add complexity, and would explain away his differences with his father.

[Darth Mandarb]

I think we should clear up this fact first, CGI is not at the stage where it is indistinguishable, If anybody read the latest copy of Empire Magazine, they would have seen the picture of yoda sitting with Obi-wan and mace windu in one of the drop ships, now, I ask you (those who have seen the pic that is) does the picture seem real to you, (Besides the actors of course), do the two clones seem real?, does Yoda? I speak for everybody when I say no.

You don't speak for me   I haven't seen the picture, but I've seen PLENTY of CGI that blends perfectly with live action.  (Gollum in Lord of the Rings) and I've seen completely CG movies (Polar Express) that had so much realism you could almost not tell.  There is (some) CGI in the matrix movies that seemlessly blends.  To me at least.  Some of the best (invisible) CGI work I've ever seen was in "The Last Samurai".  Don't know what CGI I'm talking about?  That's my point

As regards the maul debate, Darth Maul is a fuckin deadly dark jedi, he killed a jedi master fer cryin out loud, do you think it's possible that an apprentice could defeat him? (consider Luke VS Vader in ep 5) I think it would have been a better climax if Obi wan fell and we would not know his fate until later in the film (like the Lord of the Rings). Maul would have kicked ass in ep ii if he survived, I think that Lucas created the character too hastily without considering future events, and late in the writing of the story, he just killed him off.

Darth Maul was Darth Sidious' apprentice ... just as Obi-Wan was Qui-Gon's.  So, while Maul was able to kill Qui-Gon, that doesn't mean Obi-Wan wouldn't be able to kill Maul.  They were both apprentices. Edit - not to mention I think Qui-Gon let Maul kill him ... just a theory of mine.

To address the year difference between the first film and the fourth, It was announced at the completion of the first that it was set fifty years before (or thereabouts) the fourth, and was later changed.

I'm not sure where you got that information?  Can you provide a link?  I remember hearing (long before Ep I came out) that it was set approximately 30 years before Ep. IV.  As in the link I provided in my last post.

[Blackthorne]

Good news for me then! I'm not a fan boy and I think the new movies suck!

Oh, that's okay.  I'm just talkin' about the assholes who have SEEN the prequels about 100 times a piece, and still complain about them while they fondle their Puzz-3D bust of Jar-Jar binks.  It's okay to loathe the films; It just reminds me of the Comic Book Guy on The Simpsons...... "Worst movie ever.... I'll only see it 32 more times......"

a) I can't get the original release OT on DVD

You can't?

Well.... not in the stores, perhaps.   
Thank god for techno-savvy friends.


I always saw EP I as set 32 years before EP IV - Vader is maybe 40-42 when A New Hope Begins.

Bt

[Las Naranjas]

The original films profited from the fact that at that point they knew they were post modern referential material rather than being uber creative new world stuff, and that Lucas didn't have as great creative control.

Unfortunately, now he seems to believe what the fan biys have said about him.

[Matchew]

You don't speak for me :)Ã,  I haven't seen the picture, but I've seen PLENTY of CGI that blends perfectly with live action.Ã,  (Gollum in Lord of the Rings) and I've seen completely CG movies (Polar Express) that had so much realism you could almost not tell.Ã,  There is (some) CGI in the matrix movies that seemlessly blends.Ã,  To me at least.Ã,  Some of the best (invisible) CGI work I've ever seen was in "The Last Samurai".Ã,  Don't know what CGI I'm talking about?Ã,  That's my point

i was refferring to star wars, u should cough up the â,¬5 to buy the Issue of Empire if you wish to challenge my opinion.

P.S. I don't have any links to help you, I read it with an old friend in a copy of Star Wars magazine about seven or eight years ago.

P.P.S. Consider the fact that qui gon found it difficult to fight maul, now consider obi wan's skills at that time, it all adds up when you think about it.

P.P.P.S. you seem to like S.W. v much, did u read any books?

[DCillusion]

Why aren't more people complaining about the dialogue?  I think that's the WORST part of the Episode 1 & 2, (& probably 3). 

Nobody ever seems to get MAD, or happy, or annoyed.  Maul growls, Qui-Gon's always calm, Anakin mopes, even Tyrannus seems oddly calm when his plan goes to shit.  People ramble on emotionless about EVERYTHING!? I don't think anyone's lines in 4,5, or 6 went longer than 8 lines without stopping, & that was the Emperor's monologue!!

I know the new stuff's about jedi's, but why do they all have to be calm.  I thought controlling your emotions was a "master" kind've thing.  Luke's a knight in 6 & he's joking & yelling with the best of them.

I really miss "zippy" lines like when the Falcon won't start in Empire-(Leia asks, "Would it help if I got out & pushed?"  and Han says, "It might").  "Pushing" is such a car phrase, but it sucked me into the story.

P.S. I'm confused about EP: 1-3 being more civilized.  This isn't a flame to the post, but I thought the reason they used "knobs & switches" instead of "holographics & touch-sensors" was because the LAST place you wanted your crap to break down was in space.  The empire hadn't lost any tech......why didn't they have that stuff?

[Darth Mandarb]

i was refferring to star wars, you should cough up the â,¬5 to buy the Issue of Empire if you wish to challenge my opinion.

Can you (or anybody) provide a scan and/or link to the image?  I'd really like to see it.  A lot of times the pictures given to magazines and website (pre-release) aren't polished shots and aren't how they'll look in the film.  So I don't deny it's possible the image may look bad/questionable.

P.S. I don't have any links to help you, I read it with an old friend in a copy of Star Wars magazine about seven or eight years ago.

Hmmm ... I read EVERYthing I could get my hands on back then.  I really don't recall it ever mentioning 50 years.  Well, moot point I guess.

P.P.S. Consider the fact that qui gon found it difficult to fight maul, now consider obi wan's skills at that time, it all adds up when you think about it.

Gonna have to disagree here.  Obi-Wan was, in The Phantom Menace, older than Anakin is in Clones.  Anakin in clones far surpasses Obi-Wan's skills, he just lacks experience and is a little more hot-headed than Obi-Wan is/was in Phantom.  It's not iconcievable that Obi-Wan could have the lightsabre skills to defeat Maul when Qui-Gon couldn't.  Especially considering that Qui-Gon might have been working towards a greater goal ... I still think he LET Maul kill him.

P.P.P.S. you seem to like S.W. v much, did you read any books?

I read almost all of the EU right up until they killed Chewbacca ... I haven't read any of it since then.

Why aren't more people complaining about the dialogue? I think that's the WORST part of the Episode 1 & 2, (& probably 3).

My one major gripe about the prequels is the dialogue. For some reason it just doesn't feel as good as the dialogue from the originals.

I'm with you on that one!

I really miss "zippy" lines like when the Falcon won't start in Empire-(Leia asks, "Would it help if I got out & pushed?" and Han says, "It might"). "Pushing" is such a car phrase, but it sucked me into the story.

I'm with you on that one too!

P.S. I'm confused about EP: 1-3 being more civilized. This isn't a flame to the post, but I thought the reason they used "knobs & switches" instead of "holographics & touch-sensors" was because the LAST place you wanted your crap to break down was in space. The empire hadn't lost any tech......why didn't they have that stuff?

That's how Obi-Wan describes it to Luke in A New Hope ... "Before the dark times ...".  I just always assumed that a civilization of peace (like the universe before the rise of the empire) would have tended towards artistic stuff (think the Naboo cruisers) where a society flogged with 20 years of war and strife would tend towards craft/technology which is designed to be functional and not worry about how aesthetically pleasing it is

[DCillusion]

That's how Obi-Wan describes it to Luke in A New Hope ... "Before the dark times ...".  I just always assumed that a civilization of peace (like the universe before the rise of the empire) would have tended towards artistic stuff (think the Naboo cruisers) where a society flogged with 20 years of war and strife would tend towards craft/technology which is designed to be functional and not worry about how aesthetically pleasing it is

I'm not entirely convinced, but that makes sense....more artistic.  It's one of those things where I can't tell if Lucas planned it that way, or he completely dropped the ball, being influenced by "NewTech" & the fans picked up the slack.

[Blackthorne]

Larry Kasdan writes great dialogue.

Lucas writes good stories, not great screenplays.  I can agree that the dialogue is stilted in the prequels.

Bt

[DGMacphee]

I would have prefered to see what would have happened to Lucas if he directed Apocalypse Now as he intended instead of following the Star Wars path.

[Blackthorne]

I would have prefered to see what would have happened to Lucas if he directed Apocalypse Now as he intended instead of following the Star Wars path.

Well, I know that Kurtz would have had the highest midichlorian count the US Army had ever seen.

Bt

[PaulSC]

I would have prefered to see what would have happened to Lucas if he directed Apocalypse Now as he intended instead of following the Star Wars path.

Me too. Based on everything I've read on the subject it would've ended up almost completely different - supposedly he was planning on filming the thing in a realistic documentary style, and was pretty disappointed when Coppola took over and made it all psychedelic and dreamlike. His vision was so different maybe that it might have been worth him tackling a war film of his own? Probably too late for that now, of course. His premature retirement really was quite a shame I think.

By the way, has anyone ever noticed that (as far as I can see) Lucas has never in his life been creatively involved a film that was set at the time it was made? That says quite a bit about the guy, I think, though i'm not sure whether or not what it says is good or bad.

[Anarcho]

I pretty much agree with most of the sentiments already discussed, I really dislike E1 and I kinda like E2, but neither can stand up to the originals. 

Problems with E1--pod racing?  What a waste of time.  C3P0 made by Anakin?  I agree, it was forced.  Bad acting--endemic!  Most of all---the CGI.  I just looks fake.  I remember the interviews on the "new" original trilogy vhs tapes and they talk about how they built ships out of model battleships and how much it sucked...but honestly, I still think it looks great.  Those opening shots of the star destroyers always gets me. 

Problems with E2--the writing.  It's just awful.  I feel like the dialogue for Anakin and Amidala was written for actors who speak with British accents...but when it's delivered by mediocre American actors it comes off as awful (ok, maybe Natalie Portman isn't mediocre, but she can be).  Again with the CGI...pretty awful at times.  Still, I think this is a much better movie.  The scene with Yoda in the end is classic, and Ewan McGregor is a really great actor and really carries the film. 

I'm definitely looking forward to the final prequel, but I've really been disappointed with the prequels so far.

[Matchew]

I'd like to add to blackthorne's conclusion that Lucas writes good stories and can't do screenplays, and that is that Lucas' directorial skills are not very good either, if you anylise ep 5 and 6 and, then compare them to the others, the interaction and banter between the characters is a lot better than the other films' poor contributions. I also agree with the point that the old (chemically based) sfx were more appealing,  as regardless of it's age, still looks better than any CGI sequence will ever look.
I would also like to add a very appropriate line to Ep1;
Padmé: You're a slave?
Anakin: I'm a person and my name's Anakin Skywalker, and i'm and American!
(please watch this scene again and it will make sense)
i really am ashamed of lucas for creating Jar Jar Binks, I mean what the hell was he thinking? Chewbacca never seemed to annoy the pants off of me, so why did lucas make jar jar so damn annoying?

Now for some miscellaneous questions:

1 Why does anakin age but Padmé doesn't?

2 how come the Empire weren't taking control of the galaxy sooner?

3 What do the trade federation actually trade?

4 How come Bevel Lemelisk wasn't in ep 2?

5 What the hell had Jar Jar got to do with anything?

[Blade]

For a starter, I like SW but I'm not a huge fan. I've seen OT inly two times. Phantom Menace - never and from what i heard i missed nothing. I've seen Ep2 at least two times and it wasn't as good as the prequels still it may not be such a bad movie. What is the biggest drawback of the proquels it's simply that they ARE prequels. If there was no OT or books then more than half of the accusations would not exist. Now don't think of me as a defender of the prequels. They are so much worse than the OT. And this is why the fans complain so much about them.
I'd like Episodes 7,8,9 to be made but I just can't see them without Ford or Hammil who are too old for it. Looking at the prequels I don't even think I'd like these ones done (and I know Lucas won't make them ever). 

[Darth Mandarb]

i really am ashamed of lucas for creating Jar Jar Binks, I mean what the hell was he thinking? Chewbacca never seemed to annoy the pants off of me, so why did lucas make jar jar so damn annoying?

Should every single alien race/species/creature in the galaxy be cool and smooth?  Sit back and sip Colt45 with Lando?  That's not even conceivable ... I applaud him for making Jar Jar so annoying (to some).  It didn't really bother me that much. 

1 Why does anakin age but Padmé doesn't?

Because Anakin was 9 in Phantom Menace, and 19 in Attack of the Clones.  Padme was 14-15 in Phantom, and 24-25 in Clones.  I do think she looks much older and more mature in Clones:
Episode I Padme
Episode II Padme
I think the better question would be; Why doesn't Padme look younger in Phantom?

2 how come the Empire weren't taking control of the galaxy sooner?

Palpatine/Sidious (Sith Lord) conceived of a way to kill all the Jedi and take over the galaxy.   These things don't happen over night.

3 What do the trade federation actually trade?

"The Trade Federation was a consortium of merchants and transportation providers that effectively controlled shipping throughout the galaxy." Source: Star Wars Databank

Think of 'trade' not as, "I'll give you this for that".  It's like this, " The people working in or associated with a business or industry:"  The people working in or associated with a business or industry: a textile-exporting publication for the trade. " : Source: Definition @ Dictionary.com

4 How come Bevel Lemelisk wasn't in ep 2?

Bevel Lemelisk was conceived entirely in the EU.  He wasn't a creation of George Lucas.  Though the EU is sanctioned/approved by LucasFilm, George has said on several occasions that he's writing the prequels with no influence from the EU, and that he hasn't read most of it.  Personally I think he threw stuff into the prequels to debunk the EU, like Midichlorians, and Jango Fett.

5 What the hell had Jar Jar got to do with anything?

Again, you really shouldn't question things like this until you've seen episode III.  A very clear reason for Jar Jar to exists might be revealed.   Personally I find it hilarious that Jar Jar, in a way, started the Clone Wars by granting Palpatine Emergency Powers.  I laughed my ass off about that one.  Gave all the whiny bashers something back.

[TheYak]

I'm in disagreement concerning Jar-jar.  He doesn't seem like an annoying character meant to flesh out the world.  Perhaps he will play some greater role but he seems deliberately inserted in order to appeal to the kiddies.  That's part of what I disliked about the prequels - ep. IV-VI were PG but seemed to cater to a PG-13/Adult audience.  Here, they've gone PG-13 (I'm a tad too lazy to verify this, maybe PG) and it seems like a PG movie.  I could easily imagine the whole thing in Disney-style animation without much loss of any of the courser elements of the movie. 

As for Lucas' directing, he did THX-1138 as a student film, found some backing/actors to jump it up a notch in prestige (Robert Duvall is quite good, even then) and found critical (though not audience) acclaim.  You can very much see how THX-1138 influenced the first Star Wars films.  Later, he directed American Grafitti, which is as close to 'present time' as he got and it found wide audience acceptance, partially due to exploration of America's culture (and filmed a decent portion in my home town).  He came up with a good story for a pop-culture Sci-fi (could've taken place in any era, really, it's a space opera mostly), had some help and churned out wildly successful movies.  He made sci-fi palatable to the US audiences who hadn't had much indoctrination to sci-fi and were ready for something a bit different (the 70's weren't the most interesting of movie times). 

He got lucky and had good success with his franchise, even gathering a lot of youth support for Ewok Adventures (significantly darker than any of the prequels), the Ewok cartoons, and - of course - toys and t-shirts galore (I've since lost my glow-in-the-dark r2d2 pajamas).  Now, he relies upon the franchise in order to stay involved in the movie business.  He's got film re-releases out the yin-yang and jumps with both feet back into the Star Wars universe.  Hell, the man lives out at Skywalker Ranch in Lucas Valley and has company 4th of July parties out at Ewok lake (ego-stroking much?).  His company continues to be involved in gaming, and movie special effects (check the ILM website, you'd be surprised how many current films Lucas is involved in SFX-wise), while any failure or shortcoming causes the company as a whole to revert to "safe" territory - the Star Wars franchise.  Critique Lucas all you want (hell, I have) but he takes very good care of his employees (around 2,500 or so) and has kept Lucasfilm privately-held while doing so - that's damned amazing in this day and age.

[Hollowman]

I have very mixed feelings about the prequels so far. I have no knowledge of the EU at all so I'm not biased towards things fitting into the whole mythology except perhaps fitting into the OT. I actually enjoyed the two prequels the first time I saw them, but they lost their appeal with later viewings, mainly because of some patchy elements which really seemed to stand out as being out of place or forced. One thing that really struck me was the fact that Jar-Jar was pretty much missing from the second movie. This almost seemed as though Lucas was doing what the fans wanted (since almost everybody hated the character) and making it up as he went along.

Personally, I actually liked Jar-Jar. Yes, he was annoying sometimes, but he grew on me and he had his moments. And I enjoyed the Pod racing. I thought that was one of the better segments of the movie.

Overall, I'm not looking forward to EP3 as much as I was looking forward to EP1 but I will still go and watch it, and I'll probably enjoy it

[Las Naranjas]

As for basing stuff in his own time period, note that most of his films are heavily immersed in the "homage" ethic. I won't go into the good/bads of making that kind of film, but if you're basing the best part of your work on something else, [for example Buck Rogers, Dune and Foundation in Star Wars' case or the film serials and comic books from the 1930's through  to the early 50's in Indiana Jones' case], you'd probably need a time machine to pay homage to something happening right now.

But hey, Tarantino's "homages" are all present day.

[[delete}]

Han Solo Adventures

[Darth Mandarb]

I'm less surprised by the necropost than I am by my defense of the prequels in this thread.

Oh how times have changed!

[Mandle]

I'm less surprised by the necropost than I am by my defense of the prequels in this thread.

Oh how times have changed!

HAHAHAHA!!! Yeah...the magic wore off fairly fast eh?

I was the same way...It's like I brainwashed myself into having fun when I saw the movies at the theater, maybe watched them again once on DVD, and haven't felt the urge to watch them ever again really...

My mates and I have the same plan probably many people have this year to sit down and do a ep.1 through to ep.6 marathon, having never watched the entire series in that order, and I'm kinda dreading the first 9 hours or however long it takes to watch the extended versions of ep.1 ~ ep.3...

But at least I know the second half of the screening will be fun...

[Joseph DiPerla]

I have been waiting for Star Wars games for years from AGS. Darth Mandarb, I still remember Rebel Spy... Also there was that Shadows of the Empire game too... I hope with the new movies and series, someone gets the jrge to revive these...

Dont forget this one either:http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/site/games/game/1181/

[Monsieur OUXX]

Dont forget this one either:http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/site/games/game/1181/

Hahaha! Shaila is that one game maker who always finishes her games! Bless her, she's so productive.

I'm actually surprised that there haven't been more star Wars games made with AGS along the years. Seriously : nerd/geek + video games + star wars = star wars AGS games. Yet, there are more harry potter games than star wars games Maybe if Lucasarts had released a successful SW point n' click game back in the days, then there would be plenty of fam games nowadays, just like there are Indy fangames flourishing. Maybe SW is stuck in the arcade/action genre for no reason other than historical.

[Ibispi]

@Monsieur OUXX, I really wanted to make a Star Wars game once, but I thought I couldn't be able to do it because I don't have any rights on Star Wars and that you can get sued by LucasArts/Disney if you do something like that... Or was I wrong? Is it possible to make a fan Star Wars game without getting into any trouble?

[Snarky]

Actually, Star Wars is (or at least used to be, before it got bought by Disney), one of the few big media franchises that condoned fan works, as long as it was strictly non-commercial and clearly marked as non-official. You'd be less likely to a cease & desist order for a Star Wars fan game than for almost any other universe.

[Darth Mandarb]

I have been waiting for Star Wars games for years from AGS. Darth Mandarb, I still remember Rebel Spy...

I have always intended to revisit Rebel Spy.

Interestingly enough; I recently became aware of an official spin-off film Disney will be making, entitled Rogue One, which is all about how the Rebel Spies procured the Death Star plans and delivered them to the Rebellion. 

If you read up on it, and then read my Rebel Spy GiP thread (from way back in 2003)... well I think somebody at Disney might just have read my production thread.  I'm not making any accusations of course, it could be coincidence.

However I'm not really anxious to tackle the subject anymore now that LucasFilm has ripped my idea off .

Actually, Star Wars is (or at least used to be, before it got bought by Disney), one of the few big media franchises that condoned fan works, as long as it was strictly non-commercial and clearly marked as non-official.

Yeah I'm really curious to see how Disney handles the fan-made stuff.  Disney protects their IP pretty aggressively.

[Misj']

Yeah I'm really curious to see how Disney handles the fan-made stuff.  Disney protects their IP pretty aggressively.

Actually, in my experience, Disney is one of the more lenient when it comes to their IP (within certain limits of course). When I look - for example - at cake decoration, then they tend to allow (or possibly 'not care') about people making cakes of their characters, even when these cakes are sold. You are also not likely to get into any trouble when you give a (paid) workshop* on how to create such characters.

Of course these are all small-scale examples, but so is most fan-art (games, etc.) So I really don't expect any problems on that front (for the time being).


* of course if you put it in a book, or sell the workshop online, then I expect things to be quite different.


EDIT: of course it will probably also depend on whether it's a market they themselves are in or want to enter.

[selmiak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngElkyQ6Rhs
Looks a bit interesting to me

[MiteWiseacreLives!]

I don't care if it's Disney, I'm pretty stoked 

[Ryan Timothy B]

I don't follow Star Wars much, but after having seen both teaser trailers, I'm QUITE certain the main protagonist is the girl we see in both videos. She's likely Luke's daughter or possibly his niece.

I believe it follows closely to the idea of what they're trying to do with the Ghostbusters reboot. If they were to get a bunch of random male actors to reboot the franchise it would feel like a violation against what we all used to love. But with female characters it would feel like a completely different movie - one I'd personally be more excited about than a male cast reboot. There would be no "He's not a good Bill Murray/Dan Aykroyd etc" because they're women versions of these characters - they're not supposed to be the same.

[Cassiebsg]

Uhm... now... where to get a babysitter around x-mas time??...

[Mandle]

I don't follow Star Wars much, but after having seen both teaser trailers, I'm QUITE certain the main protagonist is the girl we see in both videos. She's likely Luke's daughter or possibly his niece.

I was thinking the same thing! They don't give away who Luke is talking to but it's obviously a family member, which made me wonder how they were going to slot in a "Luke is married with children" plot when Jedi ends with no romantic love interest by his side. It would just feel weird I think.

I think it is more likely that Luke followed the "don't fall in love" monk-like way of the Jedi and that he is talking to the daughter of Han and Leia who is, like you said, the girl we see in the trailer. We also see a light-sabre handed off to a female hand when Luke is talking about his sister Leia, but the hand looks too young to me to be Leia's hand. I think this is Luke passing his sabre to his niece. Although it would be awesome to see Leia in a light-sabre fight all using the Force and shit for once!

I've also been thinking on the possible plot and how it might tie in with "The Force Awakens". I'm thinking that we are going to learn something new about the "balance" of the Force, in that the Force grows strong on the good side in proportion to how strong it is on the dark side. So if the dark side ever grows stronger for some reason the good side grows likewise so as to be able to combat it.

So, after the fall of the Empire, the defeat of the Emperor, and the return of Vader to the good side, the Force's strength toned down for many years on both sides, so as to be hardly noticable. But now a new dark threat has appeared (the guy with the light-broadsword and the bobba-esque helmet) and so the Jedi have started noticing that the Force is growing stronger once more, meaning it's time to fight again. This would explain the movie's title and also the fact that there is a need for Luke to re-explain the Force to his niece.

Just my own theories of course. I haven't read any of the books or followed any leaks on fansites or anything so I'm probably completely wrong.

[Darth Mandarb]

One of the things that surprised me most (and nobody seems to be talking about it, which is odd given the level of discussion and guesswork that goes on with new Star Wars material) is Luke clearly says, "The force is strong in my family.  My father has it.." 

Well if this new movie is taking place 30+ years after the events of Return of the Jedi (notably the death of Darth Vader) shouldn't be have said "had it" instead? 

JJ Abrams is quite good at loading hints and clues into pre-release stuff and I'm wondering if this is significant in some way.

[Quintaros]

I think Luke's voice over is lifted directly from Return of the Jedi when he tells Leia that she is his sister.

[Darth Mandarb]

I think Luke's voice over is lifted directly from Return of the Jedi when he tells Leia that she is his sister.

Nope [fan boy alert], they are similar but quite different (in inflection and phrasing).

For example in Jedi he says, "The force runs strong in my family" and in the new trailer it's "The force is strong in my family".

It could be b-roll audio (different takes) from RotJ though (because Luke's voice sounds younger) but I think it's new audio.

Time will tell I guess!

[Quintaros]

Ok.  Well if it is a new line I'd speculate that Luke is still in communication with ghost Anakin as he was with Obi-wan after his death.

[Darth Mandarb]

Ok.  Well if it is a new line I'd speculate that Luke is still in communication with ghost Anakin as he was with Obi-wan after his death.

Yeah that was my reasoning as well (I just really hope it's not Hayden Christensen).

I have often wondered if Jedi, when becoming "one with the force", retain their abilities with the force.

Perhaps I will finally have the answer!

[Quintaros]

I'd be okay with Christensen since I think he might do better under another director's direction.  Plus it would be kind of interesting to see an older Luke conversing with a younger father.

[Darth Mandarb]

he might do better under another director's direction

VERY valid point! 

I've seen him in other things and didn't think he was quite as horrible as he was as Anakin in the prequels.  There are certain actors that I call "Director's Actors" who are only good when they have a talented director to pull a good performance out of them.  He could be one such.

[Mandle]

he might do better under another director's direction

There are certain actors that I call "Director's Actors" who are only good when they have a talented director to pull a good performance out of them.  He could be one such.

To be fair though: It is considered a part of an actor's duty to follow the direction given to them. And knowing what a control freak Lucas is then it follows that he must have been telling Christensen "Good, good! But let's try it again with a bit less passion! Internalise your feelings!" or somesuch. It's not like the actors were working without guidance as most of them give wooden performances, so this must have been what Lucas was aiming for, and it's their job to follow the director's vision.

One of the things that surprised me most (and nobody seems to be talking about it, which is odd given the level of discussion and guesswork that goes on with new Star Wars material) is Luke clearly says, "The force is strong in my family.  My father has it.." 

Well if this new movie is taking place 30+ years after the events of Return of the Jedi (notably the death of Darth Vader) shouldn't be have said "had it" instead? 

JJ Abrams is quite good at loading hints and clues into pre-release stuff and I'm wondering if this is significant in some way.

My mate and I noticed this and came to the same conclusion: That he is talking about the spirit of his father still existing.

One thing I would nitpick in this speech is "The Force is strong in my familly...My father has it...etc":

Is this even the right terminology? To "have" the Force? Shouldn't it be the ability to "control" the Force or "use" the Force?

The Force is supposed to be everywhere and in everything so saying that you "have" the Force seems a bit weird to me and I don't think it's ever been said like that before: "The Force is strong in this one"..."May the Force be with you"...sure...

But: "Keep an eye on that one: He has the Force!"...nope...

[Darth Mandarb]

To be fair though: It is considered a part of an actor's duty to follow the direction given to them.

Fair enough!  I make no distinction between the two points though.  Whether it's a shitty director or an actor that needs a good director the end result is a shitty performance either way!

Is this even the right terminology? To "have" the Force? Shouldn't it be the ability to "control" the Force or "use" the Force?

I think, well to my mind at any rate, this is one of the ways the prequels messed with the over-all mythology of Star Wars.  Before the prequels the force was this mystical energy that some people (jedi/sith) could tap into.  It made it magical (like the jedi were the Merlins/Magicians of a far, far away galaxy).  So, in OT terms, it makes sense to say "have" the force [ability].  Then those freak'n stupid midichlorians had to go and make it something biological just ruining the cool mystical quality the force had before 1999.  I'm hoping against all hope that all movies moving forward just pretend like midichlorians never were mentioned.  They are the Keyser Soze of the Star Wars universe. POOF. They're gone.

[Mandle]

Is this even the right terminology? To "have" the Force? Shouldn't it be the ability to "control" the Force or "use" the Force?

I think, well to my mind at any rate, this is one of the ways the prequels messed with the over-all mythology of Star Wars.  Before the prequels the force was this mystical energy that some people (jedi/sith) could tap into.  It made it magical (like the jedi were the Merlins/Magicians of a far, far away galaxy).  So, in OT terms, it makes sense to say "have" the force [ability].  Then those freak'n stupid midichlorians had to go and make it something biological just ruining the cool mystical quality the force had before 1999.  I'm hoping against all hope that all movies moving forward just pretend like midichlorians never were mentioned.  They are the Keyser Soze of the Star Wars universe. POOF. They're gone.

I totally agree about the midichlorians...I almost STOOD UP right THERE in the movie theater and laid an Annie Wilkes down on everyone when they introduced that bull-turd:

This isn't what happened last series!
Have you all got amnesia?
They just cheated us!
This isn't fair!
THERE WEREN'T NO COCK-A-DOODIE MIDICHLORIANS!!!

But I do have to disagree that "having the Force" would have made more sense in the original series as opposed to the prequels. I think it makes less sense in the framework of the originals where it was an energy that infuses the entire universe, which the Jedi can use but can't be said to possess as a personal attribute.

The confusing midichlorians thing does also make it seem that you could say that the Force is present in somebody if they have a specific biological makeup, but in this case I would also say that this only makes them more able to "Use the Force" rather than possess it...

The whole "has the Force" thing still bugs me:

It kinda sounds like Austin Powers' "Mojo"...

[Darth Mandarb]

But I do have to disagree that "having the Force" would have made more sense in the original series as opposed to the prequels. I think it makes less sense in the framework of the originals where it was an energy that infuses the entire universe, which the Jedi can use but can't be said to possess as a personal attribute.

Very interesting how we see the same thing so differently.

I guess, to make an analogy to support my view, I would relate it to radio waves.

They surround us every day but unless you have a receiver (radio) you, technically, can't have the signal. 

Jedi/Sith have some kind of magical receiver that gives them the signal (Force).

Though I kind of always thought by saying, "I have the Force", was more just a short-hand way of saying, "I have [access to] the Force" -or- "I have [the ability to use] the Force".

So that would bring our two views more in-line I think.

[Mandle]

Though I kind of always thought by saying, "I have the Force", was more just a short-hand way of saying, "I have [access to] the Force" -or- "I have [the ability to use] the Force".

Exactly...short-hand! But I don't think this short-hand form was ever used in any of the movies.

Imagine if instead of "Luke....use the Force..." the line had been "Luke...you have the Force..."

Or if instead of "The Force is strong in this one..." we had got "This one has a strong Force..."

Or if instead of "May the Force be with you..." it had been "The Force is in you..."

My point is exactly yours as well that the Force is an outside energy that these individuals channel through them...

So it just seems weird to me for the teaser to say "My father has it...I have it...My sister has it...". If this had been referring to the "ability to use" the Force then I wouldn't have any issues. But the "it" pronoun is the actual Force in the context of the dialogue...

Just weird sounding to me...

[Crimson Wizard]

I think, well to my mind at any rate, this is one of the ways the prequels messed with the over-all mythology of Star Wars.  Before the prequels the force was this mystical energy that some people (jedi/sith) could tap into.  It made it magical (like the jedi were the Merlins/Magicians of a far, far away galaxy).  So, in OT terms, it makes sense to say "have" the force [ability].  Then those freak'n stupid midichlorians had to go and make it something biological just ruining the cool mystical quality the force had before 1999.

Interestingly, I thought the same about this. In fact, from the very first of the new movies, I had a feeling that the magic has been taken from the film.
Another thing is the characters. It's funny to notice how common the original movie characters were. You looked at them, and you saw real people, not born to be heroes. Now it is all about glamour and bad-ass.
(But then again, this may be a general difference in movie generations.)
(E: And, lol, do I sound like an old grumpy man?)

[Mandle]

(E: And, lol, do I sound like an old grumpy man?)

"Dang these young whippersnappers with all their new-fangled midichlorians!!!"

[Darth Mandarb]

Interestingly, I thought the same about this. In fact, from the very first of the new movies, I had a feeling that the magic has been taken from the film.
Another thing is the characters. It's funny to notice how common the original movie characters were. You looked at them, and you saw real people, not born to be heroes. Now it is all about glamour and bad-ass.

I agree whole-heartedly. 

Not just the magic of the force but the magic of the entire film(s).

Just so dead-pan and full of such sloppy writing.  Everybody was terrified of challenging Lord Lucas so nobody told him just how shit the scripts were.  So, instead, they just dumped so many visual effects into the movie that it felt like a cartoon.

I'm working on a website called "HowIWouldHaveDoneIt.com" where I explain how it should have been done and point out where it went so horribly wrong.  The hi-light/showcase I plan to launch with are the Star Wars prequels.

[ManicMatt]

Like a blog Mandarb, or with videos where you host it, and show clips?

Hayden's acting. I can pull a bigger range of emotions with my arse. It just needed Mark Wahlburg to complete the deadpan acting set. He should be called Mark Woodenbloke. Or something.

[Darth Mandarb]

Like a blog Mandarb, or with videos where you host it, and show clips?

A good mix of all;

The parts that describe what went wrong will be video based (showing the parts of the movie being addressed)
The part where I explain how it should have been done will have visual aids (probably quick renders in Blender) to help illustrate my points

It's still in the VERY early planning stages so it's gonna be here anytime too soon... unless somebody figures out a way to give a few more hours in each day!

[ManicMatt]

You mean it's NOT gonna be here anytime soon, haha!

I just spent a few hours editing footage of channel 4 interviewing Robert Downey Jr for a piss take and I'm starting to think it was a waste of time and won't be funny. Well I'll record my own bits and we'll see...

[milkanannan]

I'm sorry to bring the thread back, but I just want to talk about upcoming Obi Wan and just generally all things 'Star Wars'. Hope nobody minds taking the discussion that way.

So...who else is stoked about Obi Wan? 10 days countdown now. I can't wait to get some additional background on Anakin/Darth's relationship with Kenobi and maybe even some background on Luke and Leia's upbringing. Hopefully they do something to help flesh out Ahsoka's place in the universe too because at the moment her story feels a bit disjointed between the movies, Clone Wars, Mandalorian and Book of Boba Fett.

[Danvzare]

I'm sorry to bring the thread back, but I just want to talk about upcoming Obi Wan and just generally all things 'Star Wars'. Hope nobody minds taking the discussion that way.

So...who else is stoked about Obi Wan? 10 days countdown now. I can't wait to get some additional background on Anakin/Darth's relationship with Kenobi and maybe even some background on Luke and Leia's upbringing. Hopefully they do something to help flesh out Ahsoka's place in the universe too because at the moment her story feels a bit disjointed between the movies, Clone Wars, Mandalorian and Book of Boba Fett.

Personally, I'm not going to watch it unless I hear it's worth watching, like with The Mandalorian. I've come to realize that just because it has "Star Wars" in the name, doesn't mean it's automatically going to be good.
I've recently learnt that about all major franchises now. It turns out if you pick and choose the good stuff rather than trying to consume it all, you actually have a much more pleasant experience with those franchises that are constantly pushing out new content on an almost monthly basis.

[milkanannan]

To each their own. I like watching the Star Wars universe unfold and this upcoming series has both Ewan McGreggor and Hayden Christensen, so we're tying tightly back into the movies. Also, I mean The Mandalorian and, admittedly to a lesser extent, BoBF were pretty cool series that helped develop some really significant characters, so I'd guess odds are that Obi Wan isn't going to strike out completely.

Anyway, I'm totally stoked. In my simple world it's nice to have a short stretch where you get to look forward to a new episode each week. (Maybe it helps my life is a pretty boring one. )

[LimpingFish]

I consider myself a Star Wars nostalgia fan; I enjoy certain elements of current Star Wars based solely on the fact that they remind me of my childhood. I'm certainly not the kind of fan who actively seeks out new content.

I thought The Mandalorian was fine, Boba's Big Book of Fett was...less so. I have little connection to the prequels (or any elements of the Clone Wars saga), zero to the sequels, and actively disliked Rogue One and Solo. I'll catch up with Obi Wan, at some point, probably. I'll likely skip Ashoka. I will actively avoid Andor (a miserable, depressing character), and we'll see what else the future holds.

But, hey, at least it's not Star Trek...¬¬

[eri0o]

But, hey, at least it's not Star Trek...¬¬

cries in Stargate

[milkanannan]

How are you guys liking Obi Wan so far? I’m digging it. The overarching story is a bit tired (one rescue mission after another? Seriously?), but some of the core scenes are cool and build suspense well. Im guessing a surprise character is going to turn up the way Cad Bane showed up in BoBF. Maybe Darth Maul with his robotic legs?

[Mandle]

Star Wars just feels made up to me now that Lucas isn't involved.

(awaits the obvious responses)

[heltenjon]

Always in production, the franchise is.

[Mandle]

Always in production, the franchise is.

hahaha

[milkanannan]

Spoiler if you haven’t seen Obi-Wan ep05:

Spoiler

So…Reva spent her life hunting Jedi so she would have the opportunity to kill Vader personally because he…killed her Jedi youngling friends? I liked the episode but I mean that twist is a bit hard to get behind.

[close]

[gerald_koonce]

I'm sorry to bring the thread back, but I just want to talk about upcoming Obi Wan and just generally all things 'Star Wars'. Hope nobody minds taking the discussion that way.

So...who else is stoked about Obi Wan? 10 days countdown now. I can't wait to get some additional background on Anakin/Darth's relationship with Kenobi and maybe even some background on Luke and Leia's upbringing. Hopefully they do something to help flesh out Ahsoka's place in the universe too because at the moment her story feels a bit disjointed between the movies, Clone Wars, Mandalorian and Book of Boba Fett.

Personally, I'm not going to watch it unless I hear it's worth watching, like with The Mandalorian. I've come to realize that just because it has "Star Wars" in the name, doesn't mean it's automatically going to be good.
I've recently learnt that about all major franchises now. It turns out if you pick and choose the good stuff rather than trying to consume it all, you actually have a much more pleasant experience with those franchises that are constantly pushing out new content on an almost monthly basis.

I agree with you, but fans will go for more than that, and the masses will fall for the magic word combination in the title. That's why Star Wars is a perfect field for experimentation with minimal risk. And the field is so fertile that the viewer is once again ready to turn a blind eye to the errors or even outright stupidity in the script, just to enjoy the stories from a galaxy far, far away again.
'Star Wars' is such a powerful brand that anything can be produced under it, and that 'anything' will always break the box office.

[Mandle]

I'm pretty much done with Star Wars.
Disney took the high ground but I went in anyway, and got badly burned.

[milkanannan]

You guys are too harsh! Disney’s done some good stuff with expanding the universe. I mean, not every character is a memorable one, but Disney’s definitely added some lore that enriches and deepens the experience.

[LimpingFish]

You guys are too harsh! Disney’s done some good stuff with expanding the universe...

I have to disagree. I mean, can you honestly name one thing that enhances the original trilogy? I can certainly think of a few that actively lessen them. Everything doesn't need to be explained, or expanded upon. The new trilogy did a handful of interesting things, mostly with Luke's character and fate (ironically what a lot of hardcore fans hated), and, despite how it ended up, the Rey/Kylo dynamic had the potential to be interesting (what if they actually had joined forces at the end of The Last Jedi?). Once Palpatine came back, the whole thing collapsed in on itself.

The Mandalorian worked better before it tied itself to cannon characters, and I'll maintain that season one of the The Mandalorian is the best thing to come out of Disney SW. The reappearance of Boba Fett has really led to nothing much, certainly nothing to justify his own series, and The Book of Boba Fett ended up doing little more that threading water between Mandalorian seasons.

Kenobi is...I don't know...good...ish? What I mean is that it's enjoyable, if you don't think about it too hard. To be honest, when they introduced baby Leia, I almost stopped watching. It really cements the idea that Star Wars is creatively bankrupt when you have to bring in child versions of popular characters. Bringing back a CGI Luke Skywalker was bad enough, but this constant desire to tie everything to the original films and it's relatively small cast of characters is becoming ridiculous. And it makes it seem like nothing of interest happens in Star Wars' "vast" universe that doesn't in some way tie into the Skywalker clan. But the Obi-Wan/Anakin conflict is...fun? Or rather, it's a fun concept, with potential, and good moments, that ultimately kind of fizzles out. That's kind of the overall problem with new SW; some potentially interesting concepts or plot points, that are either averagely executed, never actually becoming more than the sum of their parts, or that crash spectacularly, under the weight of their own expectations.

Regardless, whatever adventures Kenobi could have had, we know that he ends up back on Tatooine, living in a cave, alive and well. Nothing can happen that alters that fact, making whatever happens to him during the years between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope essentially meaningless. It's kind of the same reason why Shadows of the Empire (remember that banger?), set between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, ending up being a pointless diversion to nothing; we know where the characters are at the beginning of Empire, (we've known since 1980!) so we also know that nothing earth shattering is going to happen to change that. And we know Princess Leia is a major character in the original trilogy, so kidnapping her child version is another pointless diversion. Nothing will ultimately happen to her.

Possible "Old Republic/High Republic" shows in the works are a chance to introduce new plot lines and new characters, unconnected to the original trilogy, but I can't shake the feeling that it'll just be some ancestor of Luke, or Palpatine, or Sy Snoodles great (times whatever) grandfather, standing in for actual original characters.

I'll also just clarify that the books/comics/videogames hold no interest to me, so if the best of new SW is happening in those mediums, it's a sad indication of just how poorly handled the live-action side really is.

But I've lived through the whole 40+ years of Star Wars (and there was a period in the late 80s/early 90's were Star Wars was more or less dead), good and bad, so maybe my views are tainted by cynical weariness.

[milkanannan]

You guys are too harsh! Disney’s done some good stuff with expanding the universe...

I have to disagree...

Definitely some valid points in there. To be clear, I'm not trying to argue Disney has eclipsed the original trilogy or anything like that. However, I think letting the original trilogy fade into history just to appease Star Wars purists would be unfortunate. I mean, it's not uncommon to see kids today (40 years later) that are interested in the Star Wars universe, and I find it interesting that most kids still recognise the original cast as the most relevant characters and strongest force users the galaxy has ever produced. Ask any kid who their favourite character is and it's Vader (overwhelmingly) or Luke, so I don't think it is fair to say any of the new media has completely tainted the legacy of the original trilogy. If anything, it's opened it up to a new generation of fans.

Disney's also made the universe much more representative, which I think is cool and makes the universe relevant and accessible to everyone.

Regardless, whatever adventures Kenobi could have had, we know that he ends up back on Tatooine, living in a cave, alive and well. Nothing can happen that alters that fact, making whatever happens to him during the years between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope essentially meaningless.

This is just stubborn old person talk (I can recognise it as a fellow stubborn old person). Piecing the story together is part of the fun. Don't forget that following Obi-Wan's predictable story arc also gave us some insight into the nature of the inquisitors, Order 66 and the Jedi tomb, and where 'Ben' (Kylo Ren) got his name. Not to mention filling in the huge storyline gaps between young and old Vader.

Anyway, is Disney's Star Wars without its faults? No, of course not. But they've largely expanded the Star Wars experience and audience and brought life the original trilogy would not have otherwise enjoyed. I mean, to my mind it's like an ongoing celebration of the original trilogy. That's more of an enhancement than the original trilogy being some movies granddad pulls out once in a while.

[LimpingFish]

Don't forget that following Obi-Wan's predictable story arc also gave us some insight into the nature of the inquisitors, Order 66 and the Jedi tomb, and where 'Ben' (Kylo Ren) got his name. Not to mention filling in the huge storyline gaps between young and old Vader.

Sure, I mean, if world-building is what you're after, then yes, you could get something from the story. But it's world-building with little or no real narrative impact, filling in details that ultimately prove more or less superfluous, because they bring little or nothing to bear on the original story. It's world-building and lore after the fact, squeezing square pegs into round holes, in a bid to make the work seem relevant to the existing story. It's my biggest problems with prequels of any flavor; we simply don't need this information to enhance our understanding of the originals. Obi Wan Kenobi summed up everything we needed to know about his past during A New Hope, in a speech consisting of a few lines of dialog. We didn't need six hours of television to make the Kenobi/Vader showdown in A New Hope seem like an important event, or make the revelation that Darth Vader is Luke's father at the end of The Empire Strikes Back any more mind-blowing.

Is it cool for fans to see these events? Sure, why not? I'd rather they were done with more thought to how they actually fit into the established narrative, but I don't have a problem with it happening.

When I said bad prequels can lessen the originals, I had examples of that superfluous world-building/lore-extending in mind; the entirety of Solo, for example, which sucked almost all the mystique out of the character in an attempt to make itself seem like a story worth telling. This is why he's called Solo (being just a cool name apparently wasn't good enough), this is why he calls Chewbacca "Chewie" (It's not a well-earned term of endearment, it's just because he's lazy?), this is were he got his gun (yep, from some guy nobody cares about), here's a mouthy robot who may actually be the Millennium Falcon's onboard computer during the original trilogy, but which adds nothing by existing. And most redundant of all, here's a two-minute scene of the card game where Lando Calrissian loses the Falcon to Han Solo; information that we already had from a single throwaway comment spoken during Empire, and which does exactly zero to enhance that existing knowledge.

Say what you like about the sequel trilogy, and it does indeed have huge flaws, from a crippling lack of direction, to some deeply unsatisfying storytelling, but they interfere less with how we view the originals than either the prequel trilogy, or most of A New Hope-era Disney Star Wars.

Can it be fun? Sure. Can it be well-made? Of course. Once you're willing to let go of the idea that anything needs to make sense, some of it can be really enjoyable. But none of it is essential, and most of it will be forgotten, or glossed over once Disney hit a creative wall. I highly doubt we'll ever get an Episode X, because there's nowhere else to go; they couldn't think of anything better than bringing Palpatine back in Rise of Skywalker, which managed to shrink the universe to an almost comical point, making everything that happens outside the sphere of influence of either Palpatine or the Skywalker clan seem inconsequential. And what will happen, anyway? Yet another "empire" to defeat? A more powerful sith than Palpatine/Sidious, who was super-secretly behind everything from the start? An even bigger Death Star?!?

But fans love stormtroopers, fans love lightsabers, Star Destroyers, the Millennium Falcon, and yes, Death Stars...so you're stuck in this short time-period, forever adding extra layers to a story that's already been told. It's why we got Rogue One. And it's why I doubt Disney will ever truly move beyond the influence of the original trilogy, and will continue to look backwards instead of forwards.

tldr: Old man yells at cloud.

[Stupot]

I highly doubt we'll ever get an Episode X, because there's nowhere else to go;

My money is on an MCU crossover.

[milkanannan]

tldr: Old man yells at cloud.

Yeah next time just put this at the top.

Alright fair enough. My own fault for resurrecting what was rightfully a dead forum thread.

[LimpingFish]

Alright fair enough. My own fault for resurrecting what was rightfully a dead forum thread.

Oh, no, I wasn't posting my opinions in an attempt to stop you from enjoying Star Wars on your own terms, or put you off expressing your own opinions. I enjoy Star Wars overall, but I wouldn't consider myself a fan, and certainly not someone heavily invested is canon. My earlier posts might seem to contradict this, but everything I said can really be applied to prequels/side-quels to existing stories in any series, not just Star Wars.

As I said earlier, my own interest, and nostalgia, in Star Wars in limited, more or less, to the live-action movies. I've never seen an episode of The Clone Wars or Rebels, for instance, and I've never read a Star Wars novel or any companion comic-book. Cross-media story telling is not for me, and I firmly believe if it's important to the story, it should be in the movie, not mentioned in a book or video game. Maybe it's an old-school point of view, but, well...it is what it is.

But if you're optimistic and positive about Star Wars, and enjoy it, then more power to you.

My money is on an MCU crossover.

I hate myself, but I might actually take that bet.