Author Topic: AGS Awards 2013! - Wieners (and winners)  (Read 33843 times)

miguel

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - Poll added, vote now!
« Reply #120 on: 05 Jan 2014, 18:59 »
I'm with Problem, Snarky and Mods. Makes things easier for everyone.
Working on a RON game!!!!!

Ghost

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - Poll added, vote now!
« Reply #121 on: 05 Jan 2014, 19:08 »
Even if Monsanto, the NSA and Al Qaida made a game together, having kidnapped and enslaved all the world's best artists, coders and game designers, and sold it to raise money for an Adolf Hitler Memorial... if it really was the best gosh-darned AGS game made that year, it would be up for the Best Game award.

;-D

Radiant

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - Poll added, vote now!
« Reply #122 on: 05 Jan 2014, 19:17 »
It seems to me that Primordia isn't the focus of the discussion any more,
Indeed it's not, since Dual posted earlier that he'd withdrawn the game.
Ahem, let me intervene, but I've kind of withdrawn the game, since Andail pointed out it may end up having heated discussions. So why are we discussing this?

So perhaps we can focus on the more complicated topic of commercial vs free games? I think it would help the discussion if we had some concrete data from earlier years to show how much either group is being eclipsed by the others? Has it been the case in previous years that a commercial game got all the votes and the free games had no chance, or vice versa?

Snarky

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - Poll added, vote now!
« Reply #123 on: 05 Jan 2014, 19:30 »
I rather figured Dual might change his mind if the question was amicably resolved... :)

If you will refer to the last time we had this discussion, a little less than a year ago... :P

2009: 4 of 19 by a commercial game (Time Gentlemen, Please!), including Best Game
2010: 11 of 17 by The Journey Down, which was a free game but was later remade as a commercial (non-AGS) title
2011: 9 of 17 by commercial games (Gemini Rue & Blackwell Deception), including Best Game
2012: 13 of 17 by commercial games (Resonance and the bake-sale game RAM Ghost), including Best Game

So over the last four years it's 26-48 between commercial/free titles, but in the last two years 22-12. I'm not sure we can conclude that either group is getting squeezed (2011-12 were bumper years for commercial AGS games, but if Primordia is not competing for 2013, are there all that many likely candidates? Only one I see in FYC is Conspirocracy), although there's a clear trend for "Best Game" going to a commercial or near-commercial title.
« Last Edit: 05 Jan 2014, 19:40 by Snarky »

Ghost

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - Poll added, vote now!
« Reply #124 on: 05 Jan 2014, 19:59 »
My two cents on Commercial vs. Freeware.

There are less commercial games than freeware games. Since they tend to be of above-average quality they also get nominated and tend to win awards. And personally I am okay with that. Everyone can pick up AGS and make a game. Commercial games aren't successful because they are "commercial games"- they can be sold because they are good. So I really think they should not be treated as different kinds of game. Neither are their higher production values a reason to call them "unfairly good", that's just silly. On the same ground all team games could be shunned because they were not made by one dude, which is clearly unfair too. And the next step would be to pick on any game made by someone who has more experience, which is an unfair advantage. You get my point. ;)

I think the sore point is that there are still much more freeware titles around, and these get a bit "overshadowed" when a commercial title scores really big. If making new categorys for commercial games can resolve that, well, that's okay by me as long as there is more than just a "best commercial game" category. That would feel silly- as if a freeware game was "more in the spirit of AGS" and should thus be rewarded MORE.

I repeat, everyone can hone his skills, make an awesome game, and win the hell of a lot of trophies. As long as the game is made with AGS, commercial or freeware is not relevant to me.

Again, those is my subjective opinion. I do admit that I cried a little each time I saw Vince's avatar trying to "carry all the trophies". But there was pride there too, to see a fellow forumite and his team making a kick-ass game and getting the fame and glory for it.

adeel

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - Poll added, vote now!
« Reply #125 on: 05 Jan 2014, 20:35 »
[...] I think the sore point is that there are still much more freeware titles around, and these get a bit "overshadowed" when a commercial title scores really big. If making new categorys for commercial games can resolve that, well, that's okay by me as long as there is more than just a "best commercial game" category. That would feel silly- as if a freeware game was "more in the spirit of AGS" and should thus be rewarded MORE. [...]

I agree with this paragraph of Ghost. (nod)

Creating a different class for Commercial games isn't a bad option, considering more and more people are honing their skills excellently and releasing commercial games more then ever before (which is a very good thing as it will encourage more people). Besides, commercial class itself will feel elite to amateurs like me because most, if not all, commercial adventure games are of top-notch quality. Personally, I would love to be a part of Commercial Class someday (if I'm able to hone my skills to that excellence ever).
-

NickyNyce

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - Poll added, vote now!
« Reply #126 on: 05 Jan 2014, 21:56 »
I would go with best freeware game over a best commercial game category. There aren't a bunch of commercial games every year, so if there's only one or two in a year, that trophy would be gift wrapped. Having best game and best freeware game, means that both commercial and freeware have to work hard to earn that best game trophy, as it is now.

Having a best freeware game category opens the door for smaller projects to have a chance to win something cool, an AGS trophy. If that helps generate more freeware games a year, that's great, I love free games.

Commercial games have to run against freeware games for the trophies every year the way things are structured now, so I don't see why any commercial game developer would mind there also being a freeware category by itself.

I cant remember the last time I posted, and I'm not too sure why I am now, but making just a commercial game category would be saying that no freeware game is fit enough for that category, and somehow that doesn't seem right. Best game is best game whether it's free or for sale.

I only say this if you guys decide to add another category, otherwise leaving things the same seems somewhat fair enough.

qptain Nemo

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - Poll added, vote now!
« Reply #127 on: 06 Jan 2014, 02:25 »
I was about to say I agree with Problem, but then I read Ghost's excellent post and realized that he makes a really damn good point.

As elegant as the "best free game" solution is, it indeed appears encouraging towards specifically making free games as opposed to commercial ones (as does the whole concept of division between awards for free and commercial games , of course). And... as great as free games are it is a very strange point to be making, really. Because the simple reality is it's much harder to make a commercial game as an indie. It's virtually universally more effort and often that also means more quality. In an extremely niche and indie market it often also means more passion. And none of this implies some universal superiority of commercial games of course, for example personally I'd easily vote for ~airwave~ over Resonance or Technobabylon over Gemini Rue, or The Vacuum over virtually anything, any day (even though Resonance and Gemini Rue are totally friggin' sweet, obviously). So making achieving a lot with a free game some kind of favourable heroic feat compared to making a game that actually makes it to the damn market and is bought by people for actual money... I don't know what exactly is that supposed to encourage to be honest. Yes, making an awesome ambitious free game is hard. But should we really make it seem like it's somehow more of an achievement than making an awesome commercial game that everybody is just as well willing to vote for of their own free will? Should we really tell to the faces of commercial developers who worked their asses off that there is something granted about their efforts, something that seemingly makes them "win by default"? I'm all for praising freeware gems, but now I'm not sure if this way to do it isn't really really awkward. And since we're at it, why should it be called "best freeware game" rather than "best obscure game that very few adventure gamers who allegedly like adventure games bothered to discover and play for their own enjoyment because it wasn't marketed really hard right in their faces so it got fewer votes" then?

Honestly, I don't know. It rarely happens, but now I don't know where I stand on this.

Re: AGS Awards 2013! - Poll added, vote now!
« Reply #128 on: 06 Jan 2014, 02:37 »
I've swayed towards adding a Best Freeware Game category to the listings rather than Best Commercial Game.  The worry was that freeware games would be edged out by high quality commercial games (which has been happening more in the last couple of years, as the number of commercial games has increased).  This allows for some more recognition for the freeware titles that might slip through the cracks if a commercial game were to take home a huge percentage of the awards.  It's also a nice way of saying thank you to the developers who work hard to create something and offer it at no cost to the community.

Funny, I think all of this discussion has convinced me to do a full reverse on each of the points of debate.  Maybe a new poll is in order?

bicilotti

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - eligibility announcement
« Reply #129 on: 06 Jan 2014, 19:15 »
Since there is a large majority on the eligibility issue, after having talked about it with AGA, I am making an announcement:

from this edition of the Awards on, eligibility will be based on release date

There, I said it. Technical details for this edition:
  • adding the game to the database is still required, so if you are a developer who released something in 2013 and want to compete in the Awards, add your game to the DB now if it is not already there
  • for games released in 2013 but added to the DB in 2014, developers should send me a PM so I can pester AGA to make the appropriate changes. This option is valid until nomination phase starts only; after that no tweaking will be possible!
  • along with games released in 2013, every game added in the DB in 2013 is still eligible for the Awards 2013. This is only fair, as I am changing rules in the middle of the competition

It is a bit cumbersome, but I guess it's normal since it's the first year.
Feel free to warn your friends/devs about this, good luck to the contestants!
« Last Edit: 06 Jan 2014, 19:17 by bicilotti »

AprilSkies

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - eligibility announcement
« Reply #130 on: 06 Jan 2014, 19:36 »
Thank you Bicilotti.
Just a question about that: the majority of the games made with AGS are in english, but there are some developers who are not native english speakers and sometimes they release their games in their native language first. The english version often take a lot of time to be completed. In this case, which release date should be took? The english version release date I guess...

bicilotti

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - eligibility announcement
« Reply #131 on: 06 Jan 2014, 20:00 »
Just a question about that: the majority of the games made with AGS are in english, but there are some developers who are not native english speakers and sometimes they release their games in their native language first.

It seems a sensible choice. And let's hope "release date" problems won't get trickier than that! :P

Yeppoh

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - eligibility announcement
« Reply #132 on: 06 Jan 2014, 21:50 »
I maybe have a tricky one here.

What about a game that isn't yet released (still in production, thus no release date), but has a demo done and was added to the database aimed to compete for the Best Demo award?

CaptainD

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - eligibility announcement
« Reply #133 on: 06 Jan 2014, 22:03 »
I maybe have a tricky one here.

What about a game that isn't yet released (still in production, thus no release date), but has a demo done and was added to the database aimed to compete for the Best Demo award?

If the demo was released in 2013, it can compete for the Best Demo Award in 2013.  I may be missing something in your question if that's not the answer.

Grim

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - eligibility announcement
« Reply #134 on: 06 Jan 2014, 22:17 »
Perhaps irrelevant, but I just got an award today for a game released in 2012...

http://www.virtualinn.it/site/virtual-inn-awards-2013-miglior-avventura-grafica/

Hence proving that maybe this whole release date thing is not that important anyway?;) Clearly media elsewhere don't pay too much attention to it after all. I am officially changing my mind about Primordia, too late or not.



Also, just wanted to say: hey, I got an award! Yay!:)

Abisso

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - eligibility announcement
« Reply #135 on: 06 Jan 2014, 22:46 »
Perhaps irrelevant, but I just got an award today for a game released in 2012...

http://www.virtualinn.it/site/virtual-inn-awards-2013-miglior-avventura-grafica/

Hence proving that maybe this whole release date thing is not that important anyway?;) Clearly media elsewhere don't pay too much attention to it after all. I am officially changing my mind about Primordia, too late or not.

Also, just wanted to say: hey, I got an award! Yay!:)

Congratulations! But I see the Award comes from my country, so you shouldn't use that as an example. We are the land of anomalies, that's for sure! :-D
I'm only making fun of the lateness in the Award, not the fact they chose your game, of course.

Thank you Bicilotti.
Just a question about that: the majority of the games made with AGS are in english, but there are some developers who are not native english speakers and sometimes they release their games in their native language first. The english version often take a lot of time to be completed. In this case, which release date should be took? The english version release date I guess...

I think the "release date" should be the "true" one and only release date in whatever language that is. Otherwise any addition to the game might be considered as a new release date, and this doesn't make any sense at all. Plus, it would introduce even more confusion.

There is another potential set of problems, though. I've only thought about that now that someone brought to my attention the fact that my game is "potentially" eligible once again, with the current set of rules and exceptions.
Forge: Chapter One is more of a demo than a complete game, as I've explained before. But it's technically an episode, and most Telltale games are released like that. Each one of them is considered a separate game, not a demo. How would you classify my game then?
Another thing I don't understand is if a Demo can only win the "Best Demo" Award or if it's eligible for other Awards as well. If the latter is the case, then is it not strange that the complete game based on that demo could technically win again the same Awards when the game is released the following year? Or is it that a game cannot take part to the Awards if its demo has already been in previously?

So, these are the 3 questions:
1. What is considered a Demo?
2. Is a Demo only eligible for "Best Demo"?
3. Can a game take part to the Awards if its demo was in previously?

Independently from those questions, I still haven't changed my mind about participating. But some people are asking me to, and since I'm looking for new team-members, the potential visibility is tempting me.
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selmiak

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - eligibility announcement
« Reply #136 on: 06 Jan 2014, 23:54 »
add forge to the database already!

bicilotti

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - eligibility announcement
« Reply #137 on: 07 Jan 2014, 03:41 »
Also, just wanted to say: hey, I got an award! Yay!:)

Congrats Grim (and nice to see coverage of adventure gaming on Italian sites).
@Abisso: I played your game and as you have stated, I would never call it a demo, but a "chapter 1" (or 0, if you prefer).

AprilSkies

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - eligibility announcement
« Reply #138 on: 07 Jan 2014, 15:54 »
I think the "release date" should be the "true" one and only release date in whatever language that is. Otherwise any addition to the game might be considered as a new release date, and this doesn't make any sense at all. Plus, it would introduce even more confusion.

Thank you Abisso. It's reasonable.
The only problem is that: if a game is released in Spanish language (only an example) in 2014 and it will be locazided to english in 2015, he should in 2014 Awards ... but how can player evaluate it? Only Spnaish player can. The rest of the world will paly it in 2015, in english. But it was released in 2014.
Another problem: the came cannot be putted in the "complete announcement section" or in DB only if it is in spanish, if i remembere rules.

@Grim: The Cat lady was released in Italian Language in 2013 .. maybe that's the reason
« Last Edit: 07 Jan 2014, 15:56 by AprilSkies »

Babar

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Re: AGS Awards 2013! - eligibility announcement
« Reply #139 on: 07 Jan 2014, 16:02 »
There is no rule, as far as I know, that you cannot post your game in the Completed Games Announcement section, or in the games DB if it is only a non-english language. There are several games in the DB and the forums that are non-english only.
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