A discussion about RoN's future

[Renegade Implementor]

The RoN forum is temporarily closed for new registration as we're working through a technical issue.  As such, here's what has been proposed.    After going through the feedback, we're going to try a database reorganization which proved the most popular choice (if you go by a tally).

RoN Database changes:

Games database
The games database would be split into the following sections.

1 â€" Canon games â€" Games that are crucial in understanding both the RoN universe and the characters that inhabit it. The games in this section are considered canonical and part of the RoN universe timeline. The events in these games are set in stone. Anyone new to RoN and wants to know the timeline and crucial events should go to this section.

2 â€" Stand-alone games â€" Games in this section are generally self-contained with no major influences on the RoN universe. While not strictly set in stone, games in this section can be considered to exist in the RoN universe â€" they just don’t have an official status. Games in this section generally concentrate on character moments rather than important, world-changing events.

3 â€" Experimental, non-canon games â€" Games in this section are not considered to exist in the RoN universe at all. Events and characters in this section should generally not be referred to in canon or (to a lesser extent) stand-along games. As games in this section are isolated from an official canon, character death is permitted.

4 â€" Non-adventure games â€" A section for games that are non-adventure: quiz, rpg, action, platform, strategy, etc.
** option -  keep separate or merge with #5 ?? **

5 â€" Trailers, demos â€" A section for game trailers, game demos, and technical demos

Characters
Important characters will still retain their separate database page. These characters are ones who have been used more frequently or have an important place in the RoN universe.

Other characters will be condensed into a single page, wherever possible. As such: all merchants will be complied into a single page, high school students will be complied into a single page, and so forth.

Art
A movement in improving RoN’s art is underway. This style continues/is heavily based upon the graphics Krysis has done for RoN.  See this LINK an example (1st draft) of the style for characters.  These are low-res but are easy to manipulate into new characters.

Promoting
RoN can't exist in isolation. A presence on the AGS page in the form of a link or something would be helpful. Getting the word out to other sites would also be beneficial, perhaps the creation of banners to advertise?  Also, possibly getting word out to other gaming sites might prove beneficial.

[Ryan Timothy B]

4 â€" Non-adventure games â€" A section for games that are non-adventure: quiz, rpg, action, platform, strategy, etc.
** option -  keep separate or merge with #5 ?? **

5 â€" Trailers, demos â€" A section for game trailers, game demos, and technical demos

I believe Trailers and Demos should remain in category 5 and not to be merged with 4.

RoN can't exist in isolation. A presence on the AGS page in the form of a link or something would be helpful.

Honestly, I didn't know RON was a large community with dozens of games made by multiple people until the past few months when these threads started emerging.

Perhaps a separate section in the BigBlueCup games page, where you can search for RON games would be helpful to spread the word?  (Obviously just those made by AGS)

[SSH]

Does the death of Underdogs mean that the whole RON stuff is lost? Please tell me someone had it backed up....  :'(

[Renegade Implementor]

Having heard the news (thanks SSH), just because it looks like RoN is temporarily homeless doesn't mean that this discussion should end or signal RoN's death.  HOTU ending just means RoN needs to find a new home and one of the HOTU admins might resurrect HOTU somewhere else, you never know.

As for for the files, everything has been backed up as far as I know.  The only thing that may have been lost is the most recent game pages which are easily replicated.

[DeviantGent]

Maybe this could be a cue to whisper sweet nuthin's into CJ's ear and have him host RON? Keep the individual website, but just provide hosting and possibly a link on the main page?

[Pumaman]

I have no problem with hosting RON on the AGS server, but I think the reason they originally didn't want that was because RON was supposed to be independant and open to games made with all adventure game engines.

However, if the time has now come for us to just host the site on this server, and create a RON sub-forum on these forums, then that's fine with me.

[Ponch]

I wouldn't mind having a RoN wiki. You could divide it into two parts. One that's serves as an introduction / overview for gamers new to RoN. And a second, more comprehensive (read: spoiler-riffic) section for developers of future games.

When I first discovered AGS back in 2004, I toyed with the idea of doing a RoN game. But even back then, it was a daunting prospect, trying to grapple with all that continuity.

To avoid these problems, I sketched out a silly, Lovecraftian tale of horror, elder gods, and first dates gone terribly wrong and set it back in the 1920s to avoid the "RoN of Today." But even that raised questions. Would I be riding roughshod over established back story? Had the history of RoN been sketched out to include the 1920s? Was Reality on the Norm even around back in the 20s? Had horrible, tentacled things from outer space visited RoN on a blind date before? Did RoN have a town newspaper? And if so, did newspapers have personal ads back in the 1920s? (Okay, that last one wasn't a RoN issue. I was just too lazy to look it up. We didn't have Wikipedia back then. Okay, maybe be did. But I can't be bothered to Google it.).

After a while, I just chucked it. The sheer, fixed-yet-somehow-anarchic bulk of RoN and its continuity was too daunting. But if we had a wiki for developers (rather than expecting them to play every RoN game ever made - just the sort of sanity-shattering endeavor that Lovecraft wrote about), then other people just discovering AGS might be more eager to dive into RoN that I was.

Just my two cents.

- Ponch

[Huw Dawson]

I have no problem with hosting RON on the AGS server, but I think the reason they originally didn't want that was because RON was supposed to be independant and open to games made with all adventure game engines.

However, if the time has now come for us to just host the site on this server, and create a RON sub-forum on these forums, then that's fine with me.

And to be honest, if somebody came to this forum and said "Hey guys, I know that I didn't make it in AGS, but I made this great adventure game" and it was actually half decent, I wouldn't object. Just because we all love AGS doesn't mean that we can't enjoy a game made in another engine, right?

- Huw

[DeviantGent]

Ponch - You mean to tell me that you had the oppertunity to make a 1920s Lovecraftian RON... and you DIDN'T?!

HANG AND CASTRATE CONTINUITY MAN, I WOULD HAVE PLAYED AND LOVED EVERY SECOND OF IT, PAUSING ONLY TO MAKE LOVE TO ITS FINELY SCUPLTED ORIFICES.

Ahem. Sorry, Lovecraft is near and dear to my heart. I do hope you will have the oppertunity to bring your ideas to fruition, I would so love to see it. But yes, your concerns are well made, and if all goes to plan then the new shakeup will address such problems.

Punaman -

[Ponch]

Ponch - You mean to tell me that you had the oppertunity to make a 1920s Lovecraftian RON... and you DIDN'T?!

HANG AND CASTRATE CONTINUITY MAN, I WOULD HAVE PLAYED AND LOVED EVERY SECOND OF IT, PAUSING ONLY TO MAKE LOVE TO ITS FINELY SCUPLTED ORIFICES.

I wanted to make one, yes. I had a "flapper" style character (who may or may not have been Mika's grandmother -- I hadn't decided), an inept cult using a speakeasy as a front, and a socially awkward cthulu-styled space monster responding to a lonely professor of the occult's personal ad. Love and terror were in the air!

Sadly, it was not to be. But who knows? It might happen one day... when the stars are right! (cue spooky theremin music sting!)

- Ponch

[RickJ]

A thought about promotion ...

How about gearing some of the contests and activities towards the RoN universe so that additional resources may be generated.    If all submissions were made with a suitable CC license and then archived somewhere then there would be an ever increasing supply of reasources.  The ones deemed of suitable quality could be included categorized as "RoN" and the others as "Non-RoN"

[Renegade Implementor]

CJ- that's an amazingly generous offer.  Thank you very much.

Ponch- I hope your idea does eventually see the light of day.  It would be nice to see more games make use of different time periods and really explore the possibilities of different settings.

A belated happy birthday to RoN, btw.

[Charity]

4 â€" Non-adventure games â€" A section for games that are non-adventure: quiz, rpg, action, platform, strategy, etc.

This seems like an odd distinction to me.  Putting quiz games in a separate category makes sense, I guess, but all the other categories deal with the degree to which each game reflects the established canon, whereas this category clearly deals with gameplay genre.  It seems to suggest that all non-adventure games deserve the same canon status (I'm assuming non-canon, since I'm sure at least some definitely belong there), but is there any reason why a well crafted RPG or platformer, for instance, that does nothing to contradict the established canon, should be barred from the Stand-Alone and Canon categories?

I get that RoN is primarily an Adventure Game series, and that it might be useful to distinguish games made in different genres from the standard type, but I don't think this is the best way to do it.  How difficult would it be to add another dimension to your database, so you have a canon dimension and a genre dimension?  Some sort of labeling system?  Or even just a button that allows you to filter out non-adventures while you browse?

Maybe that makes things too complicated, I dunno.  Just my thoughts.

[magintz]

I remember when there was a time I had a keen interest to build a RotN game but that time came and went back in the prolific days of Reality.  Sadly I lost track of the story, characters and general happenings and with my bad track record of getting a RotN game completed I didn't feel that anything would fit into the story arc; if you can even say it had one.

Perhaps this re-visit to RotN will entice me back in, even if it's just a short game, but I feel that if I were to do anything I'd definitely need help from some Wiki or better organised source of information so I can get myself back on track without having to play every single RotN game.

I'd very much like to see the Reality boards or games section appear on BigBlueCup and if Chris is okay with all that it would be a potentially large project but would benefit the series in the long run. I think it would also help many people in taking their first steps to building their own game.

[DeviantGent]

I definatly think that having a continuous presence on the AGS boards will entice many AGSer's to RON. It's also become abundantly clear that the biggest barrier to currently creating a game at the moment can be solved by a basic synopsis of the current story, along with detailed summaries/continuity notes for each individual game.

Interesting times, to be sure...

[JudgeDeadd]

I wouldn't mind having a RoN wiki.

Technically, there is a RotN Wiki, but it's pretty much inactive.