Adventure game brain in an RPG body

Trapezoid · Sun 07/07/2013 06:45:40

I love the look and feel of old school top-down RPGs-- the exploration, the use of tiled graphics to map out huge worlds, secret paths and caches. I love it as a medium for storytelling.
But I just cannot stand the constant grinding, fighting and leveling up. To me, it's a repetitive, artificial waste of time that brings gameplay to a halt. I've never finished an RPG, because the mechanics are just so uninteresting to me. Even something like Zelda's fighting just feels like a distraction from more intriguing stuff.

Does anyone know of any games that lack those elements and instead focus on exploration, interaction with the environment, and more nuanced problem-solving? Basically, an adventure game with a more open world? I'd really love to try that. Most adventure games' locales are rather constrained by the challenge of individually painting each background. The freedom of a tiled system would really seem like an adventure world-designer's dream. So why is the best example I can think of, uh... Yoda Stories?

Ghost · Sun 07/07/2013 07:08:22

Death Gate comes to mind; it has a bit of the RPG paniche but plays as a true adventure game- to name an example, there is a spellcasting system but it's actually used to solve puzzles or *avoid* combat.

It's ancient, and can be found on most abandonware sites, too: http://www.abandonia.com/games/525/DeathGate

Igor Hardy · Sun 07/07/2013 07:50:40

I second Death Gate.

But for something presented from the tiled perspective I'd strongly recommend Valhalla Classics - a very cool series of very long and complex top-down adventures that debuted on the Amiga in the early 90s. It was ported to PC a few years ago by the original creators, but I'm not sure if the online store still works as the website has not been updated in ages. Nevertheless you definitely can download the already incredibly long first chapter for free and try it:

http://www.vulcan.co.uk/classics/

Scavenger · Sun 07/07/2013 07:58:43

Yume Nikki is pretty good at this. You walk around, exploring and finding new things to explore, and items to interact with the world with. Not a battle in sight.

Undertale is an RPG in which every monster is a puzzle to solve, rather than an enemy to oppose. When it says noone has to get hurt, it means it.

Babar · Sun 07/07/2013 14:37:46

I think Planescape: Torment might have been better off as a traditional adventure game

.
But it doesn't have tiles. I think Chris Avelone wrote in the design document "Tiles are for bathrooms!"

ThreeOhFour · Tue 09/07/2013 14:00:55

He did!

(also, it's "Avellone")

Babar · Tue 09/07/2013 14:07:36

Yeah, and I found that out ALL BY MYSELF!

(but okay, AVELLONE)

Radiant · Tue 09/07/2013 14:34:33

I would recommend two classic games, Savage Empire and Martian Dreams. Both are technically RPGs, but combat is avoidable and stats are mostly unimportant and ungrindable; but both have a huge world to explore and problems to solve everywhere, and almost none of that is done via fighting. They are also made on the principle that you can interact with anything, so you could e.g. bake your own bread if you wanted to.

CaptainD · Tue 09/07/2013 14:38:43

I think you might enjoy "To The Moon" - it looks like a top-down RPG but it is an adventure game. The only thing is, it's extremely story-driven - to the point that there's not much gameplay at times. To compensate for this, the story itself and the way it's developed is pretty amazing.

blueskirt · Thu 11/07/2013 04:29:16

I'd also second Planescape Torment. I haven't played it but the way a friend described it to me, even battles are unnecessary and sometimes failing and dying in battle and then resurrecting can lead to much better story telling and even plot progression.

Quote from: Scavenger on Sun 07/07/2013 07:58:43
Yume Nikki is pretty good at this. You walk around, exploring and finding new things to explore, and items to interact with the world with. Not a battle in sight.

There is nothing Yume Nikki can do in its current form which couldn't be done infinitely better with an actual adventure game interface and breathtaking backgrounds and character conversations and puzzles to solve, except of course frustrating me with untapped and wasted potential and endless and senseless walking around.[/derail]

qptain Nemo · Sat 13/07/2013 07:04:21

Quote from: Trapezoid on Sun 07/07/2013 06:45:40
I love the look and feel of old school top-down RPGs-- the exploration, the use of tiled graphics to map out huge worlds, secret paths and caches. I love it as a medium for storytelling.
But I just cannot stand the constant grinding, fighting and leveling up. To me, it's a repetitive, artificial waste of time that brings gameplay to a halt. I've never finished an RPG, because the mechanics are just so uninteresting to me. Even something like Zelda's fighting just feels like a distraction from more intriguing stuff.

Does anyone know of any games that lack those elements and instead focus on exploration, interaction with the environment, and more nuanced problem-solving? Basically, an adventure game with a more open world? I'd really love to try that. Most adventure games' locales are rather constrained by the challenge of individually painting each background. The freedom of a tiled system would really seem like an adventure world-designer's dream. So why is the best example I can think of, uh... Yoda Stories?

First of all, I'd like to say I share your desires. And it pains me how little games there currently are that can satisfy them. (I intend to fix that, though)
Secondly, I second Planescape: Torment. It is pretty much better than most adventure games are at what adventure games are the best at. The sense of discovery in it is immensely wonderful and satisfying.
Then, there's Anachronox. Not as broad at exploration as some other games, but the fusion of exploration, amazing storytelling, lots of wonderful optional little details... is indescribable. The combat is entirely cosmetic and again, another game that while not being strictly speaking an adventure game outdoes adventure games at their most strong points.
Then perhaps you should try the classic Little Big Adventure. It has lots of action but it's still an adventure thing at heart and it has a vast world that greatly exceeds what adventure games usually offer.
I wish I could name some more.

Quote from: Ghost on Sun 07/07/2013 07:08:22
Death Gate comes to mind; it has a bit of the RPG paniche but plays as a true adventure game- to name an example, there is a spellcasting system but it's actually used to solve puzzles or *avoid* combat.

It's ancient, and can be found on most abandonware sites, too: http://www.abandonia.com/games/525/DeathGate

Eh, what? Death Gate is an adventure game plain and simple, made by Legend who were really good at making adventure games. And as amazing and recommendable it is indeed, there is nothing RPG-esque about it at all, there was no combat whatsoever, and the amount of locations in it doesn't really make it suitable to satisfy the desire for exploration. Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy that you like and recommend Death Gate, it's one of my most favourite adventure games and I consider it a must play, but I respectfully disagree on its relevance in this context.

Ghost · Sat 13/07/2013 12:09:39

Quote from: qptain Nemo on Sat 13/07/2013 07:04:21Death Gate is an adventure game plain and simple, made by Legend who were really good at making adventure games.

Agreed, calling it an adventure in a high fantasy scenary would've been more precise. I still found it very close to typical (Paper'n'Pen) RPG settings (and over in Germany that was a strong selling point)