AGS Awards 2013 Ceremony discussion

[Kiira]

(Split from this thread. -Snarky)

Yes, it was a wonderful ceremony, but... there's something I feel I need to tell you.

You probably don't know me, I'm not a huge part of the community and I joined the forums only a couple of months ago. Well, the thing is, as a lesbian myself, I felt that yesterday's 'jokes' about lesbians were just... yeah, wrong. My friend AprilSkies told me it was all based on Eternally Us. I thought it over and, well, it still didn't make much sense to me.

Let me explain myself: would you ever consider making jokes about Jews just because "The Shivah" has been released? Did you make jokes about black people when The Journey Down was released? Would you keep saying things like "We want more Jews!", or "We want more ni**er!" during the ceremony? It was offensive because yesterday you didn't make jokes about all the other adventures released in, say, 2010. You just picked this one and kept hiding behind the excuse "Oh, we're just joking about Eternally Us, keep calm dude".

What's even worse, you put on screen images of stereotypical lesbians. Actually, they weren't even lesbians: they were just straight girls making out for the sake of male audience. Again, it's like you put on screen someone with a big fake nose who's supposed to be playing the Jew, or someone with his skin dyed black who's supposed to be playing some kind of Bwana.

It all made me very sad. We all know how the videogame world is still mostly made by men for men's sake. We all read of women developers being insulted on Steam just because of their gender. Yesterday I felt like there's still no place for women, let alone lesbians, in this narrow-minded world of yours.

This said, congrats to all the winners. 

[Gribbler]

As a person who screamed out in excitement each time I saw kissing lesbians on screen, I want to say I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. I am very sorry. I got carried away.

[Kiira]

It's okay, I'm not here for making scenes. Just next time think twice before getting carried away, that's all

[abstauber]

I have to agree, the jokes weren't quite balanced. But the ceremony game wasn't community made, it was all done by two (or more?) guys and it guess it was quite a task to get that game running. We had one single lesbian(pretender) pic last year and it was hilarious - and as said, Duals got a bit carried away this year If there's a new ceremony game next year, somebody better google some abdomen (but it won't be me )
If someone's still demanding political correctness, just join via plain IRC

[kconan]

  Congrats to Lifetime Achievement Award Winner Ponch, and the other winners!  Really great entries overall, and The Art of Dying might just be my favorite AGS non-adventure game period.

  I don't see a lesbian kiss being on par with a minstrel show, but regardless I'm sorry to hear you felt uncomfortable Kiira.   Lots of dudes around here and we would do well not to, even for a second, turn it into some kind of Mad Men locker room.

[Scavenger]

Congratulations to all the winners! There were some really great games this year, and I'll be sure to play the ones I missed out on - they all looked fantastic. I was really impressed with the ceremony program this year, it was a marvel - and it had the capability for animation, as well.

Unfortunately, I've got to put in that I also felt alienated by the gratuitous 'lesbian peep show' too, though. Could we not include stuff like that next year?

[miguel]

I apologise for being rude to lesbians last night, I also extend my apologies to men with small testicles who I constantly remind them of it, also to the announcers who I constantly interrupted, to Jim who made a great ceremony game and I crashed it clapping madly, to Icey who I joked about even if he wasn't there. To my fellow winners who I did not support on their time of joy because I was plain jealous, to guys with small balls who, wait I already apologised for that! There was a sprite who had a huge rack and I made rude comments as well, so, I may as well apologise to its proprietary. I also want to apologise to my country who had such high expectations on me, being the only Portuguese using AGS and all.

In my defence all I can say is that I'm an idiot. And Ponch started it.

[AprilSkies]

So there were lesbians! It was not a joke!
(Sorry Kiira couldn't resist ... I'm an idiot too... Just lightening and defusing .. I know very well Kiira, I know she was not offended. I think she just wanted to point out one important thing for her).

And Miguel... did you have your testicles removed?

[cat]

Maybe next year we should include gay men making out? Will everyone feel comfortable with this?

[Problem]

Congratulations to all winners!

The thing with running jokes is that they are only funny for those who know about them. And I can understand completely that some people may be offended by jokes about minorities, no matter where these jokes originally come from.
Dualnames, you did a fantastic job, but reading your post, do you really think this is the right way to react to such mild criticism? Just saying.

[Myinah]

Kira thank you for speaking up. I felt very uncomfortable too with the gay for pay lesbians. As a female it gets very alienating when we are fetishized and sexualised needlessly. Dualnames, the lesbians joke is alienating to some degree and makes it feel like a boys club. Telling us to lighten up about it is not helpful. I didn't see anything in the show last night that would have made straight men feel uncomfortable.

We are telling you as members of the community, female members who are in the minority, that it made us feel uncomfortable. Other progressive members have acknowledged that and apologised because they clearly want it to be a welcoming place for female devs. Because you were not bothered does not really prove that there was nothing wrong with it. And because it's been a running joke in the past doesn't mean its okay either. I'm not saying the awards need to be high brow, but come on.

[miguel]

And Miguel... did you have your testicles removed?

AprilS, nope, I'm fine. I'm also going incognito for a few weeks, just in case...


C'mon girls, it was boys being boys! Please accept our apologizes, I'm sure it will be much smoother next year.
Dualnames is just clearing the point that the joke already existed and he explained it.

We need to cool down, please. There's nothing better than having women devs on the community, it brings the testosterone levels down and brings a bit of common sense around.

[Problem]

Dualnames is just clearing the point that the joke already existed and he explained it.

And he told people who feel offended to not attend the ceremony next time. 

[Snarky]

I wasn't too keen on the lesbian "joke" the first time around, and last night I think it crossed the line from a touch of off-color frat boy humor to totally inappropriate.

I'm saddened that gay and female AGSers are made to feel objectified and excluded in the community's biggest event and what's supposed to be a celebration of all that AGS is about, and frankly angry at Dualname's defiant attitude and insistence that this kind of thing is going to continue. (Also baffled: The first time around this issue was raised, he was apologetic and said he never wanted to "put anyone away" or discourage female AGSers. Now that women are coming forward saying they were hurt/offended/put off, where is that consideration?) As cool as the in-game awards ceremony is, making it a vehicle for expressing such disregard (even contempt) for the sensibilities of marginalized community members is, in my view, unacceptable.

Simply put, if Dualnames is not willing to change it for next year, he should not be allowed to program the official awards ceremony.

Edit: Apart from being objectifying and alienating to some community members, it was just... kinda tacky and out of place, you know? When you think of AGS, is "gratuitously sexualized" something that comes to mind? To me, it doesn't seem to represent what the community is about. Such a shame, when stuff like pixel Daft Punk really made it seem like a proper AGS party.

[Myinah]

Thank you Snarky. I second this and will be boycotting the ceremony next year unless things change. I am unwelcome on Dualnames terms.

Miguel, boys will be boys is basically trivialising our feelings. It's not a valid excuse. You dont need to tell us to calm down either. None of us are in a rage, we are all actually calmly telling you how we feel about last night. You guys are capable of critical thinking and not alienating forum members so please reflect on that.

[bicilotti]

I just sent a PM to Kiira, apologising for any ceremony tactlessness.

Simply put, if Dualnames is not willing to change it for next year, he should not be allowed to program the official awards ceremony.

There is no "official" awards ceremony program, Snarky. There is just a man who put in the hours to make something fun and novel and shared it with the community he is part of.
To everyone bashing the Greek: "one who makes no mistakes makes nothing”, or more appropriately "one who makes nothing, makes no mistakes".


(unrelated) One minor thing regarding the IRC logs of the ceremony: apparently I f***ed up with +M/-M at some time, so some audience lines (and maybe presenters' too) were lost (see: Lifetime Achievement award). Can someone who recorded the game ceremony please confirm this? I am willing to add them manually if needed.

Again, thanks everyone for participating/making games/clapping!

[CaptainD]

It would be nice if we could all agree that next year we will have an AGS Awards Ceremony that's just about the AGS Awards, and no-one feeling upset at the end of it.  It's about bringing the community together, not alienating anyone (though I'm sure that was not the actual intention, now that it has been brought into the open in a calm and respectful manner, a calm and respectful response is called for).  I'm sure with the characters we have on the forums that we will always have a laugh, but not at the expense of others.

[Peder 🚀]

Or if you don't want any surprises just attend the awards ceremonies the "official" way, via IRC in a text-only environment.

[CaptainD]

Or if you don't want any surprises just attend the awards ceremonies the "official" way, via IRC in a text-only environment.

That too!  Though the theatre environment etc was very cool.

[Calin Leafshade]

I've been annoyed at the appropriation of Eternally Us for stupid sophomoric shit from DN for a while. It's childish and the characters in EU were never intended as lesbians anyway. I mean it's literally a playground-level attempt at humour. ("Tee-hee, he said 'boobs'"). Get a grip, sir. You're like 25 years old.