bmags? for beginners only?

[Nagania]

i was just wondering if anybody here would be interested in or consider taking part in a monthly ags competition, (mags), for beginners only??

please let me know, i'm really interested in the result!

[Andorxor]

I think that a month for a game is too short when you must learn AGS too in this time.I would make it a bi-monthly competion.

[rock_chick]

I sucked at drawing whether on the computer or on paper(my entry into the last sprite jam was probably a huge embarrassment but at least it looked like what it was, an axe.) How about instead of a beginner's bmags, a beginners sprite jam because the last one was one of the easiest I have seen for ages and that's why I felt I could at least enter. Or optionally you could have both.

A beginner's sprite jam could have both a slightly longer time limit but as the quality of the graphics of the main reasons for choosing winners, beginner's, like me could submit not so brilliant sprite without concern that theirs would be the worse and it'd encourage beginner's to improve their sprite drawing skills, eventually they'd like to move up to the regular one in most cases. In addition to this the specifications for the sprite jam could be simpler things to draw than the usual sprite jam ones, the most current one was an excellent example but many more can be thought of if you try.

I realise some may perceive this as a possible hijacking of this thread and that I have hostile intentions, in that I squash the authors idea in order to get mine chose. This is mostly untrue. While I think my idea is better I support the idea of beginner's areas for most competitions here and bmag is one that I would support. I'd just like to see sprite jam get a similar deal. Having beginner's competitions, spin offs of the main ones is a great way of getting people who have little drawing/audio making, etc. experience to give it a try, when before they might have usually decided not to due to the great ability of the people entering the normal comps. Also this could very well lead to them gaining interest in continuing to practice whatever form of creativity they enter a beginner's competition for and then perhaps eventually if they stick with it they may even one day be good enough to win a prize in the normal comps.

After all these activities are supposed designed to"Practice your art, music, writing and game making skills in the forum competitions." and most of the people who enter these comps from what I've seen need little practice in certain areas, whereas beginner's need lots.

[Nagania]

yes, i was thinking bi-monthly also......

sprite jam eh?  if you wish, you can pm me and we can discuss it further.  there could be a number of different competitions the beginner could enter.

[ThreeOhFour]

Hmmm....

I don't want to sound rude or anything but I don't see the real point of either of these.

The point of entering the sprite jam and the MAGS competitions is not to solely to win - it is to have fun. Sure, a winner is decided, but a bit of competition makes people try a bit harder. As much as I love it (and have only participated in one thus far), the mags competition doesn't get a heap of entries. My concern would be that having a "kiddie pool" (not intended as offensive, ps ) version of these would pull away entries from the main competition. If you want to make a short little game in a month, make one, without relying on a group of others doing the same thing. People will play it. You won't be in the draw to winning a competition, but you'll be a winner because you've released a game.

With regards to the sprite jam - if you really want to learn how to draw better, post in the Critic's Lounge. If you just want to have a bit of fun and draw sprites to a theme, enter the sprite jam. You mention you feel that some rulesets are quite complex, and I'd like to point out that you can draw simple versions of practically anything, should you choose.

I don't really see how any of the competitions are not "Beginner friendly" - unless of course you wish to win, which I don't see as being the point of the activity.

This may have been slightly longer than $0.02 pays for, but I like to get my money's worth .

[rock_chick]

Well if someone knows of a tutorial for drawing computer sprites and/or images using GIMP I'd love to know because most are Photoshop based and without the program how can I follow them properly. I know GIMPShop is designed to emulate Photoshop's interface but I don't know if it'll work well enough to work with the tutorials. Also I don't have a scanner, not to mention the fact I draw at least just as bad on paper as I do on a computer.

One a more relevant note, in the last Sprite Jam, the only competition here I ever entered, someone said it was mainly based on graphic quality as to who wins or get 1st or 2nd runner up. If this is really the case in general with Sprite Jam than beginner's haven't a chance because I've looked over many of the former Sprite Jams and most of the entries were done by people who could draw on a computer really well. Of course it's not just about winning but let's get a little bit real, human nature means we want to win, if only a little bit. It doesn't take away from the fun but you can't have a competition without people wanting to win, as I said human nature.
All I'm saying is by introducing perhaps just one trial beginner's sprite jam where anyone who has proven they have fairly good computer drawing skills are ineligible to enter can entice those that would perhaps otherwise(like myself, yes I do admit that) not dare enter such competitions usually, not just because they probably wouldn't win but because(and again this goes for my entry in the previous sprite jam) be embarrassed to submit, essentially beginner's work, especially when the skill and talent of the other contestants is not intentionally but realistically right in front of them in the thread. It could encourage people who have wanted to learn to draw on a computer or are just learning and suffering from low self esteem a reason to keep going, you can forget the trophies and just say who the winners are, make it more about the person who looked like they tried their best regardless of how crappy their image looks rather than how wonderful it looks but may have been easy as to do, example I drew a sprite of a portable TV the other day, passable and nice but easy to draw because of the design, mostly straight lines and round patterns, I did the whole thing in MS Paint.

[BOYD1981]

doesn't bi-monthly just mean twice a month?

[rock_chick]

doesn't bi-monthly just mean twice a month?

Not trying to be a smartarse here but you are spot on correct and silly of me not to notice it before, I don't know if there is a term for what Andorxor was referring to but it's obvious he meant once every 2 months.

[ThreeOhFour]

@RockChick

I feel that I have never actually seen a tutorial on how to draw a sprite that has helped me draw a sprite at all. The times I have improved have been through practising and through posting work on the critics lounge, and then listening to people's advice. This hasn't made me into a pro artist, but it has taken me further than just looking at tutorials would have.

With regards to drawing in the Gimp and such - it is rarely your equipment that holds you back. I use the Gimp and GraphicsGale, and hey, I love those programs, but when I draw sprites, 90% of the time I draw them in MS Paint. I have no idea why, either. But I cannot draw better in the Gimp or Gale, so I don't feel that MS Paint (as annoying as it can be at times) should ever hold back the quality of your sprites.

With regards to being embarrassed to enter a competition - why? Your art, if you put the effort in, is a representation of your current skill, and people will respect that. They might offer criticism, and that can seem harsh at times, but generally we all want you to get better. If you truly want to get better, I strongly recommend the critic's lounge. I learnt pretty much everything I know when it comes to graphics by posting in there.

Mods: If this seems inappropriate or offtopic, I'll gladly take it into PMs. Just say the word.

[rock_chick]

@RockChick

I feel that I have never actually seen a tutorial on how to draw a sprite that has helped me draw a sprite at all. The times I have improved have been through practising and through posting work on the critics lounge, and then listening to people's advice. This hasn't made me into a pro artist, but it has taken me further than just looking at tutorials would have.

With regards to drawing in the Gimp and such - it is rarely your equipment that holds you back. I use the Gimp and GraphicsGale, and hey, I love those programs, but when I draw sprites, 90% of the time I draw them in MS Paint. I have no idea why, either. But I cannot draw better in the Gimp or Gale, so I don't feel that MS Paint (as annoying as it can be at times) should ever hold back the quality of your sprites.

With regards to being embarrassed to enter a competition - why? Your art, if you put the effort in, is a representation of your current skill, and people will respect that. They might offer criticism, and that can seem harsh at times, but generally we all want you to get better. If you truly want to get better, I strongly recommend the critic's lounge. I learnt pretty much everything I know when it comes to graphics by posting in there.

Mods: If this seems inappropriate or offtopic, I'll gladly take it into PMs. Just say the word.

I shall ask you a question, can you or could you ever sketch on paper or on a computer an even somewhat decent looking image that included more than straight lines, shapes that are offered with MS Paint, etc? If the answer is yes then while I understand you are trying to help me you can not compare yourself to me as I can do neither. If the is no, then please enlighten me as to how you first(before any critic lounge posts) did you manage to do so without using any tutorials? Because that would certainly put us in the same boat at one time. Please note while this post may sound condescending and perhaps a bit antagonising, that was by no means my intention, I am a wannabe writer and sometimes my dramatic flare can surface in forum posts.

[Buckethead]

I wanted to say what Ben said earlier but the site was down or something... 

anyway... It's so true. Tutorials can point you in the right direction and show techniques but in the end practice makes perfect. If you practice alot you will get better. It's like that with everthing really. 

Just don't be shy to post in competitions and such. I've been a fan of the MAGS for a while and I've seen alot of entries that were just rubbish. But the authors kept trying and got better.

So go for it!

[Pumaman]

i was just wondering if anybody here would be interested in or consider taking part in a monthly ags competition, (mags), for beginners only??

I don't really see much point in having a separate competition for beginners. There's nothing to stop you entering the normal MAGS contest, and whilst you probably wouldn't win to begin with, it would give you the practice you needed to improve and then be able to win later rounds of the contest.

[ThreeOhFour]

Rock Chick,

I suck at drawing on paper. I've been practising a lot lately, but the honest truth I am awful at it.

How did I manage to do it before the critic's lounge?

Badly .

But I stuck with it. And wasn't afraid to ask for help, and more importantly, listen when help was offered. To my eternal shame, I still ignore good advice to this day, although not if I can help it. I'd like to think that if I listened properly everytime I was offered advice, I'd be good at art by now.

I've drawn my fair share of absolutely horrible sprites - still draw plenty of them. But the more I tried, the easier I found it to make them a little less horrible. I'm not ashamed when I draw something bad. I see how far I can take it on my own, and when I cannot take it any further than that, I ask for help. I keep in mind that nobody can draw well overnight, but a bit of advice from someone more experienced can help me step in the right direction.

Never mind about appearing condescending - you've a right to say how you feel. If you want help, I sincerely recommend the critic's lounge, once again.

Oh - just noticed CJ posting while I was typing this. I agree - enter the MAGS competition. The time I did it, I had loads of fun and emerged with a great deal more experience.

Sorry if I seem to be dragging this thread WAY offtopic.

[rock_chick]

Rock Chick,

I suck at drawing on paper. I've been practising a lot lately, but the honest truth I am awful at it.

How did I manage to do it before the critic's lounge?

Badly .

But I stuck with it. And wasn't afraid to ask for help, and more importantly, listen when help was offered. To my eternal shame, I still ignore good advice to this day, although not if I can help it. I'd like to think that if I listened properly every time I was offered advice, I'd be good at art by now.

I've drawn my fair share of absolutely horrible sprites - still draw plenty of them. But the more I tried, the easier I found it to make them a little less horrible. I'm not ashamed when I draw something bad. I see how far I can take it on my own, and when I cannot take it any further than that, I ask for help. I keep in mind that nobody can draw well overnight, but a bit of advice from someone more experienced can help me step in the right direction.

Never mind about appearing condescending - you've a right to say how you feel. If you want help, I sincerely recommend the critic's lounge, once again.

Oh - just noticed CJ posting while I was typing this. I agree - enter the MAGS competition. The time I did it, I had loads of fun and emerged with a great deal more experience.

Sorry if I seem to be dragging this thread WAY offtopic.

Well I did a very simple graphic in MS Paint the other day and have just posted it in the critics lounge but it was mainly made with the straight line tool and the shapes tools, drawing sprites for example seems almost beyond my reach, I feel it requires the ability to have a very steady hand with the mouse whilst using the pencil or a similar drawing material and I don't seem to have that. I think a mixture of tutorials, competitions, the critics lounge and obviously and I have known this the whole time, regular practice, if you don't practice regularly at something, especially something you're only learning or are not very good at you might as well not bother. I learnt that lesson in training for certain things and in high school(btw, in Australia our high schools have years 7(usually 12 year olds) to year 12(usually 17 year olds) students and no middle school like the USA. I sometimes wonder what it might have been like to attend a middle school but since I hated school(for social reasons, I have a social phobia so I was considered a freak and therefore ending up wagging school lots) if I attend Middle school I would have probably found a way to drop out before I even got to high school. I dropped out of high school without even completing year 8 but a few years later I was allowed to do correspondence work and eventually finished high school with average results, yes this is off topic and now people may think I'm a freak but if that's the case I don't care, I am who I am!

Also since I can't even draw a sprite entering a MAGS competition would be pointless.

[rock_chick]

i was just wondering if anybody here would be interested in or consider taking part in a monthly ags competition, (mags), for beginners only??

I don't really see much point in having a separate competition for beginners. There's nothing to stop you entering the normal MAGS contest, and whilst you probably wouldn't win to begin with, it would give you the practice you needed to improve and then be able to win later rounds of the contest.

CJ(I have no idea why you choose a different username on these forums) only a very small handful of beginners like myself would bother entering such a competition for the reason I mentioned earlier on. The evidence can be found in looking at many previous competitions and the quality of the entires and who entered, how can you be sure such a thing is a key reason why beginner's would not bother entering? A beginner's competition, a trial and for just one competition, a drawing based one, at least would give you and others a chance to see if that is the case. If it attracts few to no entries I'm probably wrong and you're probably right and you could scrap the whole thing but if a whole new bunch of people came out of the woodwork and submitted entries(given that seasoned artists were not allowed to submit entries, however there's no reason why they'd want to) then there just may be something to what I was saying. All I'm asking is you give the idea a chance.

[Ubel]

Nothing is stopping you from starting an unofficial competition for example here in the Adventure chit-chat forum. But still, the whole point of every contest in the Competitions forum is, aside from having fun, to learn how to do these things.

And no, I did not bother to read the ridiculous amount of text in this thread so someone probably mentioned this already. In that case, consider this post a backup for those arguments.

[Darth Mandarb]

i was just wondering if anybody here would be interested in or consider taking part in a monthly ags competition, (mags), for beginners only??

I don't really see much point in having a separate competition for beginners. There's nothing to stop you entering the normal MAGS contest, and whilst you probably wouldn't win to begin with, it would give you the practice you needed to improve and then be able to win later rounds of the contest.

I'm gonna have to go with CJ on this.  I find the best way to learn is to dive in head-first.  There's nothing like a dead-line to make me learn things faster and keep me focused on it!  That's just my two cents.

Also ...

doesn't bi-monthly just mean twice a month?

And...

doesn't bi-monthly just mean twice a month?

Not trying to be a smartarse here but you are spot on correct and silly of me not to notice it before, I don't know if there is a term for what Andorxor was referring to but it's obvious he meant once every 2 months.

Actually no, bi-monthly means every other month (6 times a year).

So says wikipedia so say we all

[macon]

I borrowed a book from the library about 3 years ago on drawing sprites for computer games. It goes into a lot of detail and was very helpful. Anyhow it is now available as a free download. Ignore the fact that it is called 'Designing Arcade Computer Game Graphics' it is aimed at game graphics in general.

Download here

[rock_chick]

Nothing is stopping you from starting an unofficial competition for example here in the Adventure chit-chat forum. But still, the whole point of every contest in the Competitions forum is, aside from having fun, to learn how to do these things.

And no, I did not bother to read the ridiculous amount of text in this thread so someone probably mentioned this already. In that case, consider this post a backup for those arguments.

I didn't think such a thing was allowed and despite not reading all the text in this thread your idea had not already been brought up. However even if it were allowed, wouldn't it been seen as offensive to CJ or other mods and possibly lead to conflicts?

[rock_chick]

I'm gonna have to go with CJ on this.  I find the best way to learn is to dive in head-first.  There's nothing like a dead-line to make me learn things faster and keep me focused on it!  That's just my two cents.

For some that is very true for others a deadline leads to stress and can make someone rush an entry(therefore entering an entry not as good as it could be, especially when it comes to beginners).

Actually no, bi-monthly means every other month (6 times a year).

So says wikipedia so say we all

That's no different than what I said, 6 times a year would mean one every 2 months considering there's 12 months in a year. In fact here is a quote from the wikipedia article you provided a link for that says almost exactly what I said.
"that is published every two months, that is six times each year." The article you linked 2 referred to magazines but the same principle would apply to other things.

However I still feel the MAGS competition is a bad idea for a beginner's competition(I can already imagine people rolling their eyes and thinking I'm going to go on with the Sprite Jam again but I can surprise too), sure sprite jam is a good example but so is the colouring ball and the background blitz. Any of these for beginner's would be a better idea than a beginner's MAGS competition.