bmags? for beginners only?

[Tuomas]

In a sense you could have something that serves as a starting point, as I assume this is partly. Picture a beginners class on the Spanish language. Would you attend after 15 years of studies on that area or as a native? Probably not in your interest then. To keep it newbie only, you might want to present topics that don't draw experienced people in, not that I would consider it an issue at that, with the name and all. A game of one puzzle would probably be something of the line here, but still a bit vague and uninspiring. A whole game though might intrigue a lot of people, and when it comes to creating a whole game, well, a month might be not enough for a complete newbie who's still elarning the basics of AGS.

[rock_chick]

It's 2 months you fool, MAGS is one month.

[CodeJunkie]

Nice attitude.  Actually Tuomas is right: he was saying that the MAGS, which is only a month, might not be enough time.

I'm still not so sure though, I think 2 months is just too much planning for a beginner.  The graphics and design will start to go stale and people will lose interest.  Since beginners improve rapidly, you want to give a short timescale to get to grips with everything without too much future planning.  A new game is always motivation, and starting from an experienced foundation will keep that motivation going much longer.

Don't forget that people have made games in under an hour before (although terrible), and the OROWs (one room, one week) had a great turnout, and some of those were very highly polished.  A one room game is a great MAGS format for unconfident people.

If you're set on making a beginner's competition you can just not allow the same person to win too frequently.

[rock_chick]

Nice attitude.  Actually Tuomas is right: he was saying that the MAGS, which is only a month, might not be enough time.

I'm still not so sure though, I think 2 months is just too much planning for a beginner.  The graphics and design will start to go stale and people will lose interest.  Since beginners improve rapidly, you want to give a short timescale to get to grips with everything without too much future planning.  A new game is always motivation, and starting from an experienced foundation will keep that motivation going much longer.

Don't forget that people have made games in under an hour before (although terrible), and the OROWs (one room, one week) had a great turnout, and some of those were very highly polished.  A one room game is a great MAGS format for unconfident people.

If you're set on making a beginner's competition you can just not allow the same person to win too frequently.

Okay I realised he was talking about MAGS but saying a newbie probably wouldn't be able to finish within a month kind of supports my case. The attitude is because he was a jerk earlier and rarely seems to stop being one today.

An entrant can only enter twice so I don't think the same person winning too much is an issue.

Within 24 hours my reputation here has been rapidly going down hill merely because I support a new idea, it's a bloody joke.

Besides it's a trial run, if it attracts little to no interest from sincere beginners(and the debate ranges on as to who a real beginner is) it will have failed and be abandoned but at the end of the day it was tried.

[ThreeOhFour]

It disappoints me that you'd accuse somebody who supports much of what you're saying of being a jerk.

An entrant can only enter twice? You're hoping that we get enough new people in that will contribute to this competition that two entries only per person will be enough to sustain a competition? It would be absolutely fantastic if this is the case.

With regards to your reputation going downhill because you support a new idea... I disagree. If somebody's reputation goes down, I feel it is more a case of how they support the idea, not the idea they choose to support.

I still fail to see the point of the activity, but good luck with it still .

[rock_chick]

It disappoints me that you'd accuse somebody who supports much of what you're saying of being a jerk.

An entrant can only enter twice? You're hoping that we get enough new people in that will contribute to this competition that two entries only per person will be enough to sustain a competition? It would be absolutely fantastic if this is the case.

With regards to your reputation going downhill because you support a new idea... I disagree. If somebody's reputation goes down, I feel it is more a case of how they support the idea, not the idea they choose to support.

I still fail to see the point of the activity, but good luck with it still .

Haven't you lead this page and the one before it, Tuomas has on occasion been a jerk to me and has in no way supported me!

You know what I'm starting to think this whole beginner's contests is a silly idea myself, I'm moving on.

[SSH]

I think this thread is great, its the first time that a female AGS member has followed in the footsteps of yodaman, Elliot Hird, Flukeblake, LJUBI, etc.  Go equality!

My advice is to deal with personal issues in PMs rather than threads, as it makes everyone look bad to air dirty laundry in public.

I can understand not wanting to enter some competitions becuase there are people who keep entering and always win. I managed to win MAGS once waaay back, but I know I could never win any of the music or art competitions, because the standard is so high. MAGS is probably the easiest for a newbie to win, becuase it relies on a good idea being executed to a reasonable standard and on hard work, rather than 1337 art skills. (If you doubt this, check out my MAGS entry, Pixel Hunt!)

[Tuomas]

Okay I realised he was talking about MAGS but saying a newbie probably wouldn't be able to finish within a month kind of supports my case. The attitude is because he was a jerk earlier and rarely seems to stop being one today.

Well it kinda depends on the newbie in this case. I could say on my own behalf I might probably not be able to finish a game within a month, but of course I can't speak for other people.

Haven't you lead this page and the one before it, Tuomas has on occasion been a jerk to me and has in no way supported me!

One harmless acronym joke that was in no way pointed at you or anyone else!  

[Radiant]

I'm intrigued. What ways? How do you define a "beginner"? This is a big problem that will no doubt stir up a lot of controversy if this idea is developed further.

I'm wondering about that myself. For instance, among artists I'd rank myself a "beginner", even if in other areas I'd rank myself higher than that.

Also, I seem to recall several MAGS contests being won by beginners. Wasn't Trance-Pacific (who won best-of-2007) one of them?

[TwinMoon]

Ok, first off: I'm sympathetic towards the idea of a MAGS for beginners.
Mainly because I think that after you've finished that first game, you're past that first psychological bump in the road, if you know what I mean.
So any competition helping you in that would be a plus.

(the rest is numbered for your convenience)

1. There's no way you can tell how 'experienced' or how 'noobish' someone is. They might have drawn cartoons, or programmed something in Pascal/Delphi, which gives them a major headstart.
You'll just have to trust people. I think anyone trying to fake 'noobishnish' to win a Beginners Competition, is sad beyond comprehension anyway.
The only rule that makes sense is setting a maximum of one/two entries.

2. Two months is a long time. One month seems ideal to me.
What about supplying graphics? Insta-game and RON spring to mind. That way people can focus on their story and programming.
3. And while I'm brainstorming: you could use a signup list where the competition starts when there are enough partakers, if after a while it seems take there are no people taking part.

Within 24 hours my reputation here has been rapidly going down hill merely because I support a new idea, it's a bloody joke.

You're just being enthusiastic about an idea, nothing wrong with that. Just try to keep it civil. Tuomas actually supported the idea in his post with the Spanish lesson metaphor.
Just ignore the witty/silly remarks if you don't think they're funny.

Ok, the numbering was a bit redundant.

[zabnat]

1. There's no way you can tell how 'experienced' or how 'noobish' someone is. They might have drawn cartoons, or programmed something in Pascal/Delphi, which gives them a major headstart.
You'll just have to trust people. I think anyone trying to fake 'noobishnish' to win a Beginners Competition, is sad beyond comprehension anyway.
The only rule that makes sense is setting a maximum of one/two entries.

You are right here.
But if one considers himself as a real beginner but still has what it takes to make a professional quality game, would he be then disqualified and sad?

2. Two months is a long time. One month seems ideal to me.
What about supplying graphics? Insta-game and RON spring to mind. That way people can focus on their story and programming.

I remember at least one MAGS competition with a RON theme. I think maybe once a year there could be a MAGS with supplied graphics. If only we had more graphics packs for that purpose.

[Nagania]

ok, obviously we've had enough negatives to point out that nobody agrees with the idea....
thats cool, i'll stop and put it behind me.

[Andail]

I think that a month for a game is too short when you must learn AGS too in this time.I would make it a bi-monthly competion.

doesn't bi-monthly just mean twice a month?

Not trying to be a smartarse here but you are spot on correct and silly of me not to notice it before

Actually no, bi-monthly means every other month (6 times a year).

That's no different than what I said, 6 times a year would mean one every 2 months considering there's 12 months in a year.

etc...

May I step in and say that bi-monthly can mean both. The distinction is slightly better defined with years; we have biennial which is every second year, and semi-annual which is twice per year, but confusingly enough, semi-annual can also be synonymous to biannual.
When it comes to months, the term semi-monthly is most often used as twice per month, but there are lots of references to every other month as well, making it rather useless a word.

It seems best to avoid the terms altogether.

/offtopic

[rock_chick]

Since the person whose idea this originally was has given up on it, it might be good idea to simply lock this thread. No reason to rehash stuff that's already been said.