Copyright stuff + Credits question

[Crimson Wizard]

I have couple of questions, one bothers me for quite a while... well, maybe not quite bothers, but slightly bothers ; another became relevant recently.

First, how much legal it is to use other people's music in non-comercial AGS games? I heard quite famous tracks in AGS games few times, but I never knew did authors simply use them as they want, or maybe there's some rules about using these?

Second. I was writing MIDIs for my game, and some used exact or almost exact pieces from famous songs: I simply downloaded piano notations for them and used these as a reference when typing in midi editor. Then, I changed musical instruments, added some extra pieces & tracks here and there. So question is, how should I refer to used material in credits, what is better to say to make it clear that I did't just take someones music, but .. umm, wrote it down manually and slightly edited?

That's it.

[Radiant]

First, how much legal it is to use other people's music in non-comercial AGS games?

Whether your game is commercial or not is legally irrelevant. What matters is whether the music has a license that allows you to use it, which by default it does not. The easiest thing is to find music that is in the public domain and use that; the second easiest thing is to ask the author.

Note that I said "legally". Ethically is up to yourself, and practically it's quite possible that nobody will notice.

[TerranRich]

As for your second question, it's perfectly fine to use other songs as inspiration, but BE SURE it doesn't sound exactly like the other song(s). I'll remind us of (among other things) the Coldplay/Joe Satriani controversy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvB9Pj9Znsw

[Crimson Wizard]

As for your second question, it's perfectly fine to use other songs as inspiration, but BE SURE it doesn't sound exactly like the other song(s).

Erm... in fact they DO sound exactly as the "other" songs, actually it was my intention for they to BE these "other" songs, its just I wanted to use MIDIs and not mp3s, so I had to write 'em down manually.....
I am starting to think it could be not a very good idea  :

EDIT: Allright, to make things clear. Songs I am using are:
1. "Let my people go" (or is it "Go down, Moses") by I don't know whom..
2. "Yellow submarine" by Beatles.
3. I also was thnking about using famous intro piece from "Smoke on the water" by Deep Purple.

[Ali]

Copyright law varies from country to country, and I'm not a lawyer so I'm in no position to advise you. That said if your inspiration came from music written by composers who died over 70 years ago then I think you'd be dealing with public domain material and should be fine under UK and US laws.

Otherwise, you probably ought to tweak it until it becomes a original Crimson Wizard composition!

[Crimson Wizard]

Otherwise, you probably ought to tweak it until it becomes a original Crimson Wizard composition!

Humm... humm... okay I'll think if I can do that.

[TerranRich]

If you notice, sometimes a show or movie will use a song that's meant to sound like a famous song, but the notes and chords are slightly different, so as to avoid copyright infringement. I would do the same, especially with the recognizable intro of "Smoke On The Water". Isn't #1 a slavery spiritual song? If so, it's public domain.

[Leon]

#1 is a traditional..
First published in 1862... normally it's copyright free 70 years after the author's death. So you'll be safe here... 

[Andail]

Sometimes it doesn't really help if the song is traditional, or if the original author is dead since hundreds of years; many large corporations manage to maintain copyrights, since, if you have enough money, you're free to tweak the laws in your favour.

Take for example "Happy Birthday", which is owned by Warner. It's technically illegal to perform this song without paying royalties, which is absurd, since
a) the melody is traditional and there's absolutely no telling who composed it
b) the words that belonged to the version owned by the company that was bought by Warner/Chappel went something like "good morning to all"
c) the words "happy birthday" etc were added by various groups of people, all impossible to identify
d) everyone who was originally part of creating this song, even though they're not identified, have been dead for probably a hundred years

It's interesting that copyrights only pertains to normal people, whereas a company, if it has enough money, can constitute their own laws and copyrights.

[RickJ]

Although traditional and/or classical music may not be copyrighted contemporary performances of these works can be (and typically are) copyrighted by the performer(s).   You don't have a problem in this particular area since you are producing your own unique performance.   

In the case of copyrighted music you are best to stay away from it.  I have a project on the back burners that has a similar problem.  There are some cut-scenes depicting the Vietnam War and so what could be more appropriate and historically accurate than CCR's "Run Through the Jungle" and other tunes of theirs and their contemporaries?   My workaround was to release the project with replacement tunes and then publish a recommended playlist with a set of instructions.   If files such as RunThroughTheJungle.mp3 and others on the playlist are placed in the game folder then the game would detect their presence and use them.   If a file on the playlist is not present then it's replacement  would be used instead.   Only the replacement tunes would be distributed with my project.  It would be up to the end user to "legally" acquire the tunes on the recommended playlist and place them in the game folder.  Since I won't be distributing any copyrighted material I'll be the clear as long as I don't encourage or suggest that the playlist be acquired illegally.  Anyway this is my intended workaround. 

[miguel]

I declare myself guilty of putting copyrighted music in my projects.
My current project will come out with about 10 or more tracks from various artists.
Although I know it is illegal I sometimes feel I'm doing them a favour rather than stealing their rights as I don't earn a dime with the games and clearly promote their music to a restrict bunch of guys that do download my games.
But yes, I don't advise anyone to do it.

[Crimson Wizard]

Although I know it is illegal I sometimes feel I'm doing them a favour rather than stealing their rights as I don't earn a dime with the games and clearly promote their music to a restrict bunch of guys that do download my games.

Honsetly, I have absolutely same feeling about using copyrighted music

Anyway, thanks for the info to everyone, some things were new for me to know.

However, I still do not have proper answer on my 2nd question. I need to know how to formulate usage of a song ("Go down, Moses"), which I write down as MIDI manually and change a little bit. I need this not because I fear some prosecution, but simply because I want to make it clear for players. How do I say this in english? "Used original music for creating"... or "made arrangement", or something else?

[Chicky]

Just remember that compositions hold copywrite as well, not to the score but to the actual performance or midi sequence etc. You can't just take someone's midi even if the original composer has been dead for 70 years.

Please correct me if i'm wrong.

[m0ds]

A toughie. You're going to find everyone says "Don't" but I'm generally on the other side of the fence about this. If your game is going to be free then you'll probably get away with it. Low key too and it'll stay under the radar. I certainly have. And also a bit like YouTube, if there is a violation, you'd be notified, not dragged to court or put in a cell. I've violated YouTube copyright about 10 times so far but they haven't prosecuted me...it just means I've had to remove my videos in my own time. The same with games, I do it - a lot of people do it to begin with too, especially as a temporary solution. Obvious it's not necessarily right but hey, if you're not making money off it, you're not going to be questioned about it if you keep it low key. You can always credit the music's author in your game and just state that they still hold the copyright, this is what I do with a lot of my movies.

No long arm of the law is going to reach out the sky and grab you. If you do cause problems with copyright music, these companies will try and deal with it as sensibly and cost effectively as they can, so hauling you to court etc is NOT going to be a priority of theirs. They're going to tell you to remove it or change it, and being an adventure developer in a community like this - that's not going to be a tall order. But hey, seriously, name me two people here who've been done for music copyright.... I can't.

As for recognisable melodies in MIDI and stuff, hell I do that all the time - and I certainly wouldn't put people off doing that kind of thing. Fatman features several bits of music that already exist that I re-wrote note for note as best I could and never got punished; but that is a parody & companies are never going to complain about their music being turned into a 10 second MIDI motif to add to the comedy of a game...

Also - after looking into this maybe once a year for the last 10 years hehe - I've found that you're actually allowed to use up to 20 or 30 seconds of a music clip without any copyright infringement, on YouTube at least. It's something like the "Fair use" policy regarding music. But you'll need to check up on that because I don't have time right now. But what I read was apparently written by a lawyer who had a video removed from YouTube and then delved into the laws and found people can place a certain amount in a video, perhaps other media too, without violating ©.

However, I still do not have proper answer on my 2nd question. I need to know how to formulate usage of a song ("Go down, Moses"), which I write down as MIDI manually and change a little bit. I need this not because I fear some prosecution, but simply because I want to make it clear for players. How do I say this in english? "Used original music for creating"... or "made arrangement", or something else?

Do it - you're not going to get in trouble. The worst that will happen is people will make you think it's the wrong thing to do in this thread You can always credit the original author of the tune and just say it was "Arranged by Crimson..." etc. If this wasn't somewhat legal, how would all those thousands of MIDI arrangers who've turned songs into MIDI for pleasure downloads get away with it??

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I actually have no problem whatsoever with using commercial music in freeware games and have done so extensively with the deluxe edition of Dance 'Til You Drop!  It's a freeware game, I am in no way making money from it so I could really care less if Dolly Parton has a fit that I used 9 to 5 for the title music.  That said, I do prefer to use my own music since I can tailor it to suit each part of the game.

[Gord10]

Being one of those who used commercial tracks without permission for their games, I am guilty. I don't perceive this unethical, because nobody isn't going to avoid buying a Rammstein album just because I have used Rammstein/Rammstein in a Lost in the Nightmare scene (personally, I think that track fits my scene as good as the one in Lost Highway). This embrasses me though, because the music authors aren't going to perceive me as anything but a ripper if they find out my game.

I am unable to change those tracks with original ones, because I have lost the source files of the game (yes, it is my idiocy deleting my whole works during a tantrum). I guess I will need to remove the music.vox file after re-opening my website, because that fact is a shame for me.

On the other hand, I don't understand why it is illegal or unethical to cover a song for a freeware game as long as the proper credits were given.

[thecatamites]

I had a small problem with this with the Paul Moose In Space World soundtrack, which was made up of tracks I didn't get permission for. A gaming magazine wanted to distribute it on a software cover disc but they needed to affirm I had copyright on everything used. I asked the people at the label who released the album and they were willing to let the music be used but some of the tracks were owned by another company, and rather than try to negotiate with even more people (who may not be quite as generous/forgiving and could reasonably ask to take the game down) I talked to a composer friend and am hoping to replace the music soon with a custom soundtrack.

There's no particular moral to this but basically these things can come back to haunt you unexpectedly so if you don't want to get custom music I'd personally recommend either looking for creative commons stuff (there's a lot of cool material on archive.org and freemusicarchive.org) or talking to the label beforehand. Reactions probably vary with how big they are or how popular/recent the material is but for amateur freeware videogames I'd say they'd tend towards leniency. Besides, even if they don't you can just look for alternatives without having to worry about changing it after release.

[Crimson Wizard]

there's a lot of cool material on archive.org and freemusicarchive.org

Look like useful links, thank you!

[LimpingFish]

I've used CC tracks in the past, and will continue to do so.

I don't have a problem with commercial tracks in a freeware game, though. If I was planning to release a game expressively for download through my own website, I'd definitely consider the possibility of including an unlicensed commercial track if it suited the game. If I wanted that game to spread to other gaming sites or magazine cover-discs, though, having copyrighted material could be a hindrance.

I've had a few copyright inquiries about Edvard Munch's "The Scream", which I used in Heartland Deluxe. It will remain under copyright until 2014, due to copyright laws in Norway (Munch's place of birth) requiring an artist to have been dead for at least seventy years before his work can be considered to belong in the public domain.