Creating Machine Puzzles

[Ali]

Hi guys,

I know Myst isn't hugely popular on these boards, but I'm a fan and I love puzzles where you have to get machinery working. My problem is, I have no idea how to go about inventing a good machine puzzle (as anyone who's played the end of Nelly Cootalot will attest).

The machines I come up with are either efficient and unchallenging or too 'puzzley' and contrived. I don't plan to make a myst clone, so it's important to me that these kinds of puzzle be well integrated and plausable within a story world, rather than puzzle moments that take the player out of the story.

I was wondering if anyone could make suggestions or point me towards any resource for deleoping this kind of puzzle. I'd also like to hear what people think about this kind of puzzle, and whether it is as widely despised round these parts as I suspect.

[blueskirt]

I love these puzzles, and while I'm as clueless as you at inventing these, as a player I know that there are a few traps to avoid when making one.

One advice I can give you is to make the goal of these puzzle fairly obvious. You are not obligated to explain how the invention function as sometimes finding how these function can be a part of the puzzle, like in The Dig for example. But there is nothing worst than not having a clue at what you're supposed to accomplish, or spending hours trying to accomplish a goal, just to discover it's not the goal of the puzzle, that the goal is something easier or something else than what you were expected.

If I take 2 puzzles that were in Nelly Cootalot, the cryptographic puzzle was well implemented, what had to be done was fairly obvious, while the final puzzle was very complicated because you had no idea what was the goal to accomplish and you were left using trial and error until something finally happened.

Also, these puzzles difficulty should be on par with the other traditionnal puzzles in the game. If it's too hard, the player will spend hours, sometimes days to solve it, which can easily ruin an atmosphere or a good story, as there are a good chance that the player will have forgotten details or parts of the plot, or if it's a creepy adventure game, after 2 days on a single puzzle, the player might no longer be scared anymore.

It is also important to have the other traditionnal puzzles on par with these invention puzzle. There are a lot of recent adventure games that fell into this trap, where the games' traditionnal puzzles consist mostly of discussion tree puzzle, or easy and straight forward puzzles involving stick, rope, rock, crowbar, key, screwdriver, knife... eventually the player has the impression these invention puzzles are the sole puzzles of the game and the rest is just filler or a mere excuse to label this a game instead of an interactive movie, or they'll have the impression these invention puzzles were only there to add lenght to the game.

[tube]

Sadly I cannot offer any insight into puzzle design, but personally I would welcome such a game. I love Myst-type "machinery puzzles", as long as they are perfectly logical and discoverable. I've immensely enjoyed some puzzles in the series that keep you guessing the purpose of a machine (but not the logic of their mechanism) until you get them going. (EDIT: This is pretty much the opposite of what BlueSkirt said, go figure...)

BTW: There's a series of short flash games called submachine that has some Myst-like, albeit simpler puzzles. Still worth a play-through, if only as a source of ideas and inspiration.

[ManicMatt]

Yes, I despise most machine based puzzles. They're usually required that you read the programmers mind's to know what to do. Or randomly press things until something happens. They sometimes can be fun though. Sometimes.

[lo_res_man]

MAchine puzzle hated: Rocket piano ( you know what I mean)I hate that puzzle, I spent a year trying to solve it. Got everywhere else, SOLVED everywhere else but was stuck in the boneyard with THAT one. Made ME! give up myst. Finally grovled and sought a walk througe

[Erenan]

I enjoy this sort of machine puzzle, though I have to say I wasn't a big fan of Myst. I liked Riven, but Myst didn't really do it for me.

I don't think a well executed machine puzzle would require you to read the programmer's mind to solve it. It would require you to experiment and pick up on its internal clues to help you figure out how it works, so that it ceases to be a puzzle and becomes a tool for you to use to aid you in achieving your goals.

[GarageGothic]

I dislike most machine puzzles (anything from Myst to Syberia). Mainly because they rarely seem to fit into the story and just end up as very obvious obstacles. At least Syberia came up with a good excuse by telling the story of a demented toymaker.

However if you do need to have them, there are a few important things to keep in mind:

1) The interface must be consistent. I remember being stuck in The Dig for ages, because I didn't realize that the lightbridge control switch needed you to hold down the mouse button rather than just click it like everything else in the game.

2) A lot of bad machine puzzles have two modes: Working and not working. Unless you understand exactly what's going on, you won't have a clue whether you're going in the right direction. Half of the fun of machine puzzles is experimenting, AND GETTING FEEDBACK on everything you do. Whether it be audio, lamps or parts moving.

3) The only kind of machine puzzles that don't feel like chores and I actually enjoy toying with are the ones where it's totally obvious what every single part is doing. Imagine a simplified version of the Rube Goldberg machines from Sierra's The Incredible Machine series or Armadillo Run (great little indie game). You have the parts for a machine but most place them in the correct sequence to make everything run. I think Fate of Atlantis had something like this with a door opening robot inside Atlantis.

Most importantly - make the process as fun and rewarding as actually solving the puzzle. Games are (at least in part) toys. And in my opinion, every single interaction in a game should ideally be there because it's entertaining for the player to perform.

[lo_res_man]

spoiler:!! I liked the tuning  the sounds, and the one with raising the model ship.
plus its kind of fun to put in dates in history (like birthdays) and seen what comes up.
anyone with more ideas on machine puzzles speak up.

[Vince Twelve]

I'm a big Myst fan.  Loves me some Riven.  I love machine puzzles as long as there's a controlling logic behind them.  But there is definitely an art behind keeping them interesting.  I think Riven accomplished this very well.

A lot of machine puzzles boil down to trying something, then checking the results, adjusting accordingly, and trying again.  This can get very dull if there are too many puzzles like this.  I was so disappointed by Myst V which I recently played for the first time after finally getting a computer that could run it.  So many puzzles in that game required you to turn a series of levers, go somewhere else and see what they did, then go back and change some levers, go check again, repeat until you see the logic behind it, and complete the puzzle.  This became very boring, and the main challenge was that the only feedback you got for each attempt was in a place far away from the place you had to turn the switches.

I guess it's much easier to give examples of what not to do than what to do.

One thing I would suggest, though:  In the context of an adventure game, machine puzzles are a good place to include a second solution.  For example, try and figure out the proper combination of levers to power the elevator, or do a favor for the maintenance guy who has the operation manual containing the solution.  Rewire the biometric access panel to unlock the security door, or lift a fingerprint off a wineglass and press it against the thumb scanner.  That way, the logical minded machine puzzle fans have a puzzle, the inventory/dialogue puzzle fans have a puzzle, and the completists have two puzzles!

<pimp> I wrote about multiple solutions like this yesterday in the development diary for my next game. (somewhere near the middle) </pimp>

[LUniqueDan]

For inspirational sources :

- Any good visual dictionary with close up on common mechanisms.
- Reasearches and drawings on Perpetulum Mobile ('Perpetual movements')
- Good illustrated kid books doing the same purpose.
- Da Vinci's papers and replica. (some scans on CD are abandonware now)
- TV shows like 'How it's made?' / 'How it's work?'
- Books of 'how to be magician' may give you some ideas too.
- Reader's digest style 'do-it-yourself'.

Remember the old proverb : 'Necessity is mother of invention' : Start with the final result then, built your own machine, then the puzzle.

Like GarGoth said : Interface consistencies should be priority. (I get stucked too with those  light bridges. Downloaded a bad walkthrought - still was unable and end up killing all my fun)

[evenwolf]

I second Incredible Machine as a source of inspiration.   


I agree that Syberia is at times frustrating but I feel that its a great source of inspiration.   Much better than Myst in my opinion.    To do machinery right its not important that every part of the machine is accounted for.  The trick is just to make it believable enough.

So look at Syberia and how the pieces of all the machines lead to the end result of the machine working.   The Voralberg contraptions in the game all had wonderful animations.   There were robot horses where you have to reroute steam to get them working.    Some of the puzzles in Syberia & Syberia 2 are frustrating, and if you analyze why they were frustrating you can avoid making the same mistakes.    Trial & error puzzles, where you endlessly try combinations get to be tedious.    There were a lot in Syberia.  But overall the machines were very fantastic and believable.    So try it out.

Might I also suggest renting some seasons of MacGyver?   (wink)

[radiowaves]

Syberia is not frustrating imho. I love machine puzzles when there are not too many of them.
When reading this thread, I thought about a puzzle where there are lots of clockwork wheels in a box and the task is to get the last wheel rotating the right direction. Its something not too complicated to solve but requires some planning when creating it.

[Ali]

I'm glad to see that some of you like good mechanical puzzles. Reading the responses in this thread has made me realise that some of the mechanical puzzles in Syberia weren't as well integrated as they could have been, the production line and the drinks machine in particular.

I agree with a couple of you guys that Riven probably exhibits the best mechanical puzzles which are satisfying in addition to being an integral part of the narrative. In places, Myst felt inappropriately 'puzzley' in a way Riven never did. That said, I think I'm one of the minority who enjoyed the rocket piano, and found it to be relatively easy.

Your suggestions are all very constructive, and Vince Twelve's idea for a short term memory inventory sounds brilliant. It's also interesting to know what the mechanical-puzzle-haters object to. To get around the feeling that machine puzzles take the player out of the game, it would be interesting to see puzzles that relate to or affect characters. I'm thinking of a puzzle in an old manor house where you have to rework the bell-pull system to trick a servant into going to a particular room. Perhaps that sort of thing would help integrate a mechanical puzzle into the story world.

[Abdou23]

I have a quistion here can i make a puzzel without codes?

[m0ds]

I have a quistion here can i make a puzzel without codes?

Generally speaking no, you will need at least some basic code. Although your definition of puzzles is vague, if its a machine puzzle and you ARE able to do it without coding I'd be amazed!

Perhaps if you re-download the old DOS roomedit, you could try making a puzzle using the graphical script editor!

[Abdou23]

i've just  finished reading a lot of topics in the forum and found that a game without codes will be boring and done befor , using the ags alon wion't make a game that very interesting and good and won't even make the game i'm thinking of .
so i must learn programming but i don't know wich could should i learn and whether it's easy or not...

[m0ds]

Learn AGS then, because it's a very easy language, with a full manual & tech forum to help you every step of the way. And as far as I know its one of the few adventure game development tools with a user interface thing. If you want to make an adventure game it CAN be done with very little coding, providing its a fairly easy/simple game. You'll find this the case anywhere though. Once you want to start adding in all your own "fantastic" ideas, you're bound to run into problems with extremely hard code. Thats life.

[Abdou23]

So How can i learn the AGS programming language from zero?

[Ghost]

@Abdou
It would be wrong to call AGS a programming language, it's a scripting language. That means that it already takes a LOAD of work from your shoulders: You don't need to code an engine, sound handling routines and everything else. AGS has great basic functionality- you can rely on it to create a framework for you and keep a lot of things easy.

You can, if you're prepared to live with some limits, create puzzles by only using the interaction editor, but it's true, they will not be very original.

How to learn the scripting language from point zero? A good way would be to think of a puzzle you wish to make. Then try to figure out what the game elements are. And then read the manual, check the different commands, find the ones that provide these actions, and write the puzzle.

A simple example:

1) The Puzzle
You want your player to only be able to cross a frail bridge if he carries only a maximum of three items in his inventory.

2) Stuff to do
The game must be able to tell if the player attempts to walk on the bridge. If he does, the game must check how much the player carries. If he carries more than three items, he should step back and say that he doesn't dare to try the bridge.

3) Required
You can easily check where a player is by placing a REGION in the Room Editor. Regions can trigger code if a player steps on them, so that would be where you put your code.

To figure out what the player carries you'll need to acess his inventory. Inventory is placed in the Inventory Window, and a quick index search in the manual will bring you to InvWindow.ItemCount. Now all you need is a simple if-else control structure, and voila- a small puzzle.

See? It helps a lot to learn by doing, and you'll always be more motivated if the things you look up are related to something you actually do. Most puzzles and their code rely on basic stuff. You will find yourself growing accustomed to a few commands and techniques pretty fast, and can then expand your "vocabulary".

I admit, you'll also have to learn the syntax, but that's not so hard, too.

Hope that helps a little.

[woodz]

In the Flash game i did called handyman wanted theres a puzzle where 4 statues needed to be placed on 4 pedistals, in the right order to trugger a book appearing.. so thats 16 possible combinations

we used flow charts, Lassie at the moment doesn't handle "if" "then "goto" variables very well so the whole thing was done by switching phases off and on, which is a bit like cracking a nut with a Abomb to do

i did a tutorial for flow charts, obviously its a Lassie example but the theory should work on anything
http://www.nigecstudios.uk.to/flowcharttut.html