Forgotten Games...?

[Grapefruitologist]

Hi,
It seems to me that every game on AGS is worked on very hard for a pretty long time, and then finished after a few months of hard work... But my question is this. After the game is finished and released, it looks like all the work is done, but... Then if you look at how many people have actually downloaded the games, it's usually only about 80 or so, which, considering how much effort was put into the game... is really not that much. The people download it, play it, and then... that's it. Not a lot more happens. Trying to advertise on other forums will probably either get you banned or ignored completely. So my question is... What's the point? Is that it? Why do y'all do it? What could you possibly do to get more publicity, and what might be a good goal? Like if you make a really good game that a lot of people like, then maybe you could get an actual company to help make and sell the sequel? How would a person achieve something like this?

[Nikolas]

I will have to dissagree with you.

The games that I've played are more than 3000-5000 downloads. The Apprentice is around 20,000 times! That's A LOT!

Trying to advertise in other forums won't get you banded. Not if the game is a freeware, but either way there is some tolerance when it comes to indie (and more over adventure games, which seem kidna dead and retro) games.

The point is that you have fun making your game.
You get the experience.
If you're serious you do a good job and promote yourself and your game the best way you can.
Yup, there have been people that've been pikced up to sell the next game. Actually most commercial creators in AGS started off in freeware, to move to commercial.

How would a person achieve this?

Hard work, commitmenet, tallent, marketing techniques, great ideas, brilliant personality, fabulous team to work with, etc. Exactly how everyone makes it in the end.

There are a handful of games being sold right here right now (made with AGS). Reach that quality, or sort of, and you're there...

[scotch]

We worked on a crappy game for a week or two and it has 50,000+ downloads. But then we did put "rape" in the title.

I make games for various reasons. One is that it's quite interesting to me, because it's a relatively new medium, the technology is freeing up what we can do all the time, and so little thought has traditionally gone into game design, so it's one of the few areas you can break new ground in as someone working at a hobbyist/independant level. Another reason is that I would like to do some sort of computer art/media/design work professionally, since it's what I study, and indie games are a good place to develop all manner of skills in that area. I certainly do hope that I make games that people will play and enjoy, and that's for the same reasons most people publish their work, for recognition, to earn a living, to have an increased sense of accomplishment, simply to see their work making people happy, to get girls, etc.

I think I'd still make games if only 80 people downloaded them, for the first two reasons, but I don't think that's typically the kind of numbers I see on most good free games... many get hundreds of thousands of downloads, and tens of thousands are very easy to attract without any/much publicity effort. If something only has 80 downloads it's either not linked to anywhere noticable, or the screenshots and writeups seem very boring.

[Akatosh]

I made a single, small promotion post for Kristmas Krisis (which is a bad game IMO) in the right place and - BAMF! - it had like 1,000 downloads in one freaking week. Koffee Krisis (even worse) had no advertisement at all and reached 605 downloads in like 10 months. Same is true for PMUVCHVT (295 downloads in two months) and _Access (326 times in one month). So watcha talking 'bout?

[Dave Gilbert]

Like if you make a really good game that a lot of people like, then maybe you could get an actual company to help make and sell the sequel?

I'll say first hand that this rarely happens.  In talking with publishers, they are less willing to take over someone else's IP (intellectual property).  If a publisher is going to shell out money for someone to make a game, they want to be sure that they can market it properly.  A sequel to an existing IP would be very difficult for them to sell. 

You can make a good game that a lot of people like, and then get a publisher to sell/market a NEW game, but not a sequel.  There's too much risk involved.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I'm not really sure how to answer this because the game I had the most fun working on is still the least played and lowest rated of my games.  Perhaps people can't get over the dated EGA visuals, or maybe it's just being Richard Simmons that turns people away, but DTYD! is still the most enjoyable experience I've had game making.  As far as advertising goes, there are a ton of sites other than ags that accept freeware games, and you can submit your game to review sites as well.  I wouldn't expect a publisher to come out of nowhere and offer to make my next game commercial, though; if that's something you want then you'll have to do some planning and make it happen.

[ManicMatt]

Over 1330 people downloaded "Secrets", and that's great! And someone comented on the game recently, so although the plays have slowed down, people are still playing it!

I am fully aware that on the grand scale of games, that's a low number, but personally it's a high one!

EDIT: Holy crap my game has more downloads than ProgZmax's DTYD!  :o That is.. weird! Maybe you're right ProgZ, maybe it's the graphics style! Mind you mine are somewhat.. well yeah.

[Fleshstalker]

I can understand why these people make these games for all the reasons listed by the replies. I wish I could create a game, but it's hard and complicated stuff. I'm not good at story making or writing, but if I could make one, I would be damn proud.

Until then, to show my appreciation to the game makers on this site, I go to www.gamefaqs.com to spread the word. Even if it's a few downoads, it's the best I can do to show my appreciation to the game makers here.

[Da_Elf]

i keep wanting to give up on my asterix game since there wasnt too big a responce on it. but hey. its alot of good practice

[Steel Drummer]

Well personally, I don't usually like to play demos (unless the game is really anticipated, like Legend Of The Lost Lagoon, or Forgotten Element). I downloaded your demo and found it glitchy and hardly polished. However, I'd still play the full game, because I've seen your work before and it's great, plus I love Asterix, and an adventure game of it seems cool to do.

[Dave Gilbert]

Fangames aren't taken too seriously, I've noticed.  At least at first.  Keep plugging away, is my advice.

[woodz]

my advice would be to do a half assed escape the room Flash game, in the end credits put your other games titles with a link (easy to do in flash) and honestly your AGS game populararty  will go up over night. just post a link on gamershood.com or something similar

i remade my remake of 6D Assassin and its had over 20.000 hits and the download version has been downloaded nearly 2000 times in a month, not bad considering it had a huge bug for the first 3 days that made it impossible to play :

Theres a huge adience out there of people who seem to have nothing better to do than play, most of the games are bloody aweful!


the big downside is you rarely get feedback unless they can't do the game, the amount of people that can't get their heads round a point and click user interface is unreal

[Grapefruitologist]

I'd completely forgotten I'd made this thread. x_X
Well, the posts here have been helpful somewhat-but what would you do if you were a beginner at making games, and you had an idea for a game and a sequel, but those were the only two good ideas you had? What if, like me, the only reason you got AGS was to make the game based on the idea you had? It seems like a lot of the people on here have had some experience in game-making in the past and do it because it's fun, and usually make up many ideas for lots of different games-what if you only had one idea, and you believed it was the only shot you had, and if it didn't get downloaded enough, then it was a failure and the only game you'd ever make?

I'll say first hand that this rarely happens.  In talking with publishers, they are less willing to take over someone else's IP (intellectual property).  If a publisher is going to shell out money for someone to make a game, they want to be sure that they can market it properly.  A sequel to an existing IP would be very difficult for them to sell. 

You can make a good game that a lot of people like, and then get a publisher to sell/market a NEW game, but not a sequel.  There's too much risk involved.

How exactly would you get a publisher, anyway? And I'm wondering if anybody would actually promote a game that was made with AGS.

[Tartalo]

if you only had one idea, and you believed it was the only shot you had, and if it didn't get downloaded enough, then it was a failure and the only game you'd ever make?

This is interesting because some AGS games I have played where very good ideas in technically very bad bodies. Usually people will tell you what's failing in your game. But not many authors seem to see their games as continuous works, so ignore these hints or have them in mind for the next project instead of improving what's done.

In Lif and the Treasure of the Tanones' case, people is telling you the game is buggy, so don't see this as a failure, it only means you didn't walk all the way yet.

[Grapefruitologist]

Heh, well, Lif and the Treasure of the Tanones wasn't my game, I only did voice acting, but it was the main example. I was just watching it for a couple days after it got released and noticed the number of downloads hadn't been going up a lot, so I decided to post a link to it on a couple other forums. And yes, I did get banned from one forum for posting there, and only one person said they were downloading. And then I started to think, well, what if this was MY game? That would have been my only chance, really. And if I only got 60 downloads and that was about it, then it wouldn't have been very successful in my opinion.

[Sparky]

I think the best reason to make games is because it's worthwhile for the creators as individuals. A game's world and characters are fun to spend time with. Seeing them come over into our world, or telling a story with personal significance, can mean a lot.

More practically (ho-hum), making games is a constructive use of time. It's a great way to learn new skills. I think there's also something to be said for seeing a project through to completion. If you can finish something, even something small and insignificant, you'll forever be able to look back at it and gain confidence from it. A small project can enable larger ones in the future, and can be an invaluable addition to any industry hopeful's portfolio or resume.

Well, the posts here have been helpful somewhat-but... ...what if you only had one idea, and you believed it was the only shot you had, and if it didn't get downloaded enough, then it was a failure and the only game you'd ever make?

And then I started to think, well, what if this was MY game? That would have been my only chance, really. And if I only got 60 downloads and that was about it, then it wouldn't have been very successful in my opinion.

I have a friend who's writing a novel, and he thinks this way. The story idea has been with him since he was a child, and means a lot to him. Writing is immensely difficult under the burden of needing to get everything exactly right. Everything he writes needs to live up to his mental image of how the story should be. It sounds like you have a similar project in mind. I know how hard it is to bring a story like this to life, and I earnestly hope you don't encounter too many frustrations.

I'd advise you to start with a small side project, and use it as a way to learn how to go about making the game. That way you can make mistakes without feeling like you're betraying the story that means so much to you. When you finish the side project, maybe you'll feel ready to do bigger things.

[Vince Twelve]

Also, keep in mind that the download count on the AGS page doesn't accurately reflect how many people have downloaded the game.  That's just how many times some one has clicked on the download link from that page.  Anyone who went and downloaded the game from either the original thread on these boards or any post you made on any other board wasn't counted by the AGS's games page.  The actual download count is probably much higher than that.

And high download count should not be the only goal you have while making a freeware game.  If you think that having a low download count equates to you failing as a gamemaker or wasting your time, then I think your heart is in the wrong place.  Make a game because you want to make it.  Let the commercial authors worry about the number of players.

[Tartalo]

high download count should not be the only goal you have while making a freeware game.

The need for appreciation is not the same for everyone, but any creator that releases something to the public wishes to please or at least provoke a reaction. There's nothing bad in it, it makes you want to be better or to abandon. But without this exhibitionism we wouldn't enjoy any creation.

[dsg_charly]

IMO, download count doesn't really mean something: 
- People that have just clicked on the link and never achieved the download. 
- People that have downloaded the game and never played it.  :-
- People that have launched the game, played with it for few minutes, and never again played it since. 

It would be more interresting adding a feature like a online highscore (time spent to beat the game for example) at the end of the game, giving a more real gamers counting.

I think the best way to see popularity of a game is the community: forums, emails, reviews on gamer websites... The more feedback you get, the best it is. Of course the game must have something, you must feel it. A crappy one-week-it's-done game doesn't make it. You must be objective and critic on your own creation.

To that purpose, I propose giving interresting websites and forums to promote a game (I hope it doesn't exist somewhere in the forum though ):
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/ (of course)
http://www.adventuredevelopers.com