Game guilds?

[Andail]

Mods, I think we're beginning to reach eachother half way now.

But in order for this to work the way I intended, two conditions must be added:
1. The guild must be exclusive.
The primary reason ATC failed for some teams was that many members were far from competent to do their duties. It may seem harsh to reject people, but remember that one "quitter" can ruin a project for an entire team (which isn't fair to the truly dedicated members), and also, the application is completely optional. If you know you can't handle such a rejection, don't go there.
It's not all gonna be about skills; the main purpose with the guild would be to help people develop their skills. I'm convinced that all people who get in, will learn a great deal about being part of game projects. The selection process will also be about committment.
2. The guild most, consequently, be for members only. I don't want a lot of nosy people running in and out the forums.

Again; people don't have to apply. People can start their own guilds. People can just forget about the whole thing. If they want to be in the one I'm talking about, yes, they will have to go through some sort of application process.

I would gladly see you host the first guild, but if you want me in there, these will be the conditions. As a supervisor of a project like this, I intend to invest a huge amount of time and energy in making these games progress as smoothly and quickly as possible. I won't waste my time on half-assed attempts.

If you're still up for it, whip up a messsage board and PM me the address, and we'll start work out the details.
Again; I'd love you to do this, Mods, but I rather do it myself than start compromising the core outlines

[Goldmund]

I truly understand how having a team is a tremendous help when making a game (after working alone on one title for three years), but I don't really think that "let's make guilds!" should be presented as something everyone should do. It's not a thing that should be anounced on the forums as a general trend - you want to start a team/guild just do it, it's not like you need anybody's approval, n'est-ce pas?

This said, I'd love to work with some more people (especially artists, as this is the skill I'm most lacking) on future projects... as long as there's place for my nifty Terminus Games intro somewhere in the beginning...

[m0ds]

Andail, I think your conditions are perfectly just, it makes sense to run it maturely and under mature rules like that. I'll get a forum set up asap and PM you the details.

[FruitTree]

stop talking and go get to it you crazy creative blokes!!!

KEEP CREATING YAY!!!

wow this is real cool, all around people want more games with better quality! I've got the feeling 2005 is gonna be a good year!

[Ginny]

Think of it as some sort of talent-scouting.
Like those reality tv-shows, which have auditions for potential performers, and help them making a career. As lame as that kind of entertainment may be, the fact remains that hundreds of good performers would remain unseen around the world without it.

Now this sounds interesting. As you say, talent scouting type shows can be rather lame, but generally they are beneficial to the participants and the public. Also, the fact that graphically "impaired" games, or games that don't excell in other areas, such as a game with a concpet that seems dull, but the story evolves into something intriguing and emotional, or the puzzles are brilliant, etc, can get a lot more recognition than usual. Some people are good at PR (I myself find it sometimes more enjoyable to write little snippets of PR text rather than actual game related text ), but I'm sure some games could really be enjoyed by a much larger audience if they are presented well to the public. Do you think such advice can or should be provided in the guild as well?
Naturally, a seal of approval, or a mark of quality, with the build up of past reputation, can contribute greatly to the success of a game. Speaking of QA, didn't m0ds suggest some kind of beta testers guild some time ago? Where beta testers would be "trained" and then there would be great feedback that can improve games? This could be a nice optional part of guild services, perhaps.

So, what I basically want to say is, sounds like a good idea to me!

P.s. FruitTree, are you thinking of somehow merging this with your own project? With Andail's and m0ds' approval of course. Or do you still want to keep that as a seperate 'guild'? Personally I'm not entirely against multiple guilds, I just agree with m0ds that one guild is enough, if it's a quality assurance/rating guild, but if it's more about producing/publishing and helping/ctriquing, then it'd be nice to have several of these "companies".
In any case, I'm pretty sure many will still hang on to their own "production company", as it's just fun .

edit: As FruitTree just pointed out to me on irc, his project is more about forming a team for quality game making than supporting individuals making games.

[Czar]

A cool thing would be if it would happen.
Let's say after 2-3 years the guilds represent the top of the top of the games made, and everyone is working their best to be a part of them, and the lines are very long, someone comes with a uber-cool game and everyone and every title on the zines would be A MIRACLE FROM OUTSIDE OF THE GUILD....


Hmmmm, I think I did one of my only-Czar-can-understand-it posts.
Did anyone actually read and understood my point up here?
My point exactly.


I better stop before i start repeating myself.

[Mephistophilis]

Dibbs on the 'Angry Scotsman Guild'! where me and my Scottish bretheren shall plot the downfall of you all BWAHAH-- I mean colaborate for some kick ass games!

I think it would be a pretty good idea, allowing for a kind of localised critics/production crew, and it would probably ease tension in asking people for help on projects.

[Ginny_School]

No, I'm against having a guild per location. Firstly, that limits anyone who wants to be in a guild to just one guild, from his own country. Also, there are many countries with too few representatives to form a guild.
I'll countinue when I get back from school...

[SSH]

Dibbs on the 'Angry Scotsman Guild'! where me and my Scottish bretheren shall plot the downfall of you all BWAHAH-- I mean colaborate for some kick ass games!

I think it would be a pretty good idea, allowing for a kind of localised critics/production crew, and it would probably ease tension in asking people for help on projects.

Not to mention that there doesn't seem to be an uber-artist amongst our scots, so we'd be a bit lacking there.

[[Cameron]]

I don't know about anybody else but i would really like to start an AGS film company. Making small films using the ags engine would rock.
Regards,


Alec

[Mephistophilis]

Eh... That does seem to be a slight downfall in my plan... doesn't matter I was joking anyway... honest!

Edit: I hereby Declar these people honorary Scots whether they like it or not:
Darth Mandarb
Pixelcat
Miez
Pumaman
Rodekill

feel free to move to Scotland when you want.... anyone?

[Blade]

Can I become an honorary Scottsman? Before you answer, see my post at the thread with members' photos at general discussion - page 26 for original me 

As to the guild - a good plan for those who want to make a team of few people for games development. But consider one thing - do not allow it to seal you off from the community! Don't allow the guild to be more important than a real person who is not from your team.
I think the idea just assembles a team which will make their own games... It'd be good if the guild wouldn't be hermetical but also provide others with advice.
I think a good idea would be guilds that would take their time also to help others - test their games, give them advice, take concern of their projects if authors want the guilders' help.
My general idea: let guild be a place  where people can go and find someone who thinks their projects are good and is willing to help them. And if the author comes for that advice and follows it - making something really worthy - than he gets the guild's seal of approval and indicates in credits that he got help from the specific guild.

[Scummbuddy]

<---- Thats a "scott"

A "Scottsman" as you call it, is me, a scott-man.  A Scotsman is what I believe you are trying to say. 

[Mephistophilis]

Yeah, and isn't it meant to be SCUMbudd- oh wait I get the joke, heh

[Dave Gilbert]

In any case, I will sooner or later commence a new ATC competition. I hope people will be inspired by the progress made by Dart, Dave & co in "two of a kind". I hope plenty of people will see it as a chance to show us what they've got.

Sorry, I came to this thread quite late.Ã,  It is interesting that you bring up the ATC, as it was such an amazing experience for myself and for the other members of the team.Ã, 

While the ATC was on, we were all majorly jazzed.Ã,  We were excited.Ã,  We were determined.Ã,  We were GOING to make that deadline, come hell or high water.Ã,  As the deadline approached, our enthusiasm increased.Ã,  I'm sure I can speak for the entire team when I say "it frigging consumed us."Ã,  I wrote dialog every chance I could get.Ã,  The artists kept sending me their work faster than I could incorporate it into AGS.Ã,  The day before the deadline, we were up all nightÃ,  communicating via IRC and working like mad to finish.Ã,  It became less about winning and more about just going the distance.Ã,  And we did it.Ã,  The game was missing a lot of dialog, it had quite a number of bugs, and a bunch of corners had been cut, but we frigging did it.Ã,  The game could be played from beginning to end and we squeaked it in just before the deadline.

If the experience taught me anything, is that a team-built game CAN work, and work very well.Ã,  With the ATC, our team complemented each other perfectly.Ã,  I know that my personal strength is writing.Ã,  My scripting is so-so and I can't draw or compose my way out of a paper bag.Ã,  My team had a fantastic coder, three great artists and a very talented musician.Ã,  It was OK that I couldn't draw or compose, because the other team members made up for it.Ã,  I was incredibly lucky, and I thank whatever random chance of probability that threw us together.Ã,  I could not have done it without any of them.

That would be my ideal of a perfect "guild", or team.  A group made up of dedicated individuals of different skill sets who can come together and make something great.

Incidentally, you might be wondering... if the game was so close to completion, where's the bloody game?Ã,  Well, it's interesting.Ã,  Without the deadline to spur us on, we had much less motivation to work.Ã,  Self-imposed deadlines are completely ineffective, as there is nothing at stake.Ã,  We ARE seeing the light at the end of the tunnel though.Ã,  All the major bugs have been squashed and we are just fine-tuning.Ã,  I think we need another deadline, Andail. :-)

[Andail]

I think we need another deadline, Andail. :-)

hm...right...tomorrow?

Seriously though...the next chance to repeat what Dave & Co experienced will soon come, in the next ATC+
(The plus is for one extra month.)
(Pretty nifty, huh?)

If I start the application process any day now, the teams could be ready to start November first. That would make the deadline in the beginning of January. To avoid disturbing the celebration of Jesus and the new year and whatnot, we could set it somewhere around the 7:th of January.
Look out in the activity and competition forum for more information in the near future.

[Ishmael]

My few cents before I'm cut off the net for the weekend:

I like the idea of guilds, but I don't think it should be like actual "guilds", rather some kind of quality tag classes, like one of these "guilds" could represent Pleurghburg-style gameplay, graphics, puzzle, etc. whatever you can think of. If we'd set up a webpage that first of all notifies and clearly states that these are actually not groups where people need to gain acces throught tests. Only that if their game meets the standards of the guild, the game will get the tag and be rated bo the guild "administrators", so it would be found on the site, and could be found by the players, and it would have a rating in the guild scale. All guilds should be listed on one site, so people can go through the list to look for a guild that tags games of their liking.