Harsh Fatman Review?

[remixor]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Dave Gilbert]

If you want to release it for free but want to be nice the people who paid for it, why not just release the non-talkie version for free?  If someone wants a talkie version (and anything extra you might have included with the box), they'd have to pay.

[GarageGothic]

That would be very cool. I'd love to play Fatman, but I would probably never buy it. Not because I'm cheap (which I admit ), but because I just don't buy things online (dumb, I know).

It's too bad that you don't have the original files (why would anyone get rid of those? What if you had to do a bug fix for later releases?) or you could have had voices in the intro (like DOTT and Sam & Max floppy versions) to get freeware users interested in the voice version. Kinda like the floppy vs. cd-rom versions of the LucasArts games (they used to have a voucher in the box so you could upgrade to the cd version at a reduced price if you already had the floppy version).

[Ionias]

Very good ideas. I'll try and see if I can install the setup and seperate the voice files ... if the size of the main .zip is small enough I might be able to host it myself.

Chrille: Hey d00d! Yeah I'm still alive. I just don't log onto MSN IM anymore cuz I'm far too busy playing Star Wars Galaxies 24hrs a day.

Petteri: I hope I can make the next mittens! Should be able to if it's in NYC. Send me an email w/ your game idea(s)

[Privateer Puddin']

btw, what galaxy are you on?

[Ionias]

I'm on the Bria server. I hang out on Corellia on Coronet. Name's Evedo.

[remixor]

http://www.adventuregamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=507

[Toefur]

http://www.adventuregamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=507

Okay, the guy that wrote the review posted a message in there saying, "Do I think the game is worth 15 bucks? Not at all - especially when I can go and download 5 Days a Stranger for free."

To that... I want to say... WHAT THE FUCK?!

What fucking relevance does being able to download some other free game have to do with whether or not Fatman is worth paying for?

Holy shit there's thousands of free games on the net... I GUESS I WONT BUY ANOTHER GAME EVER AGAIN.

Bah.

[Andail]

That's why a lot of people never buy games. Like me.

[Erwin_Br]

http://www.adventuregamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=507

Okay, the guy that wrote the review posted a message in there saying, "Do I think the game is worth 15 bucks? Not at all - especially when I can go and download 5 Days a Stranger for free."

To that... I want to say... WHAT THE FUCK?!

What fucking relevance does being able to download some other free game have to do with whether or not Fatman is worth paying for?

Holy shit there's thousands of free games on the net... I GUESS I WONT BUY ANOTHER GAME EVER AGAIN.

Bah.

Maybe you should post this on the AG forums instead of here. I think your opinion would serve more purpose there.

--Erwin

[Pet Terry]

Duh how offtopic this is, but Mike, I sent you an email in Socko Entertainment email because that was the only one I found

[Hiro Protagonist]

Hey guys,
This is Robert Michaud, and I wrote the review for The Adventures of Fatman.  I heard over in the AG forum that this was getting some discussion over here â€" and some of the same points were being brought up â€" so I thought I would address them here as well.

First of all, I appreciate the intelligent discussion over the review, and the total lack of ‘What the Fuck’ postings â€" make that almost total lack, but it was a ‘What the Fuck’ with a good point.

Let’s start with the amateur vs. commercial discussion.  This was a discussion that I had with the editors of AG as well, and it was decided that if a game was being sold, then it was a commercial game â€" even if a one-man team made it.  I think that I did come across as harsh on some of the points, but the underlying message was simply that this was a good game â€" just not something I saw as a commercial game.

Second of all, the comment ‘I wanted to like this game’ was cliché but also very true.  One of the main reasons that I signed on with AG was the fact that they would let me review Fatman.  This was a game that I had been looking at for a while and really wanted to play, especially based on the reviews of a few other sites.  But AG held the game to a higher criteria, and I agree with that.

As far as the comment about how ten years ago Fatman would have been a graphical treat, I somewhat disagree.  I think putting Fatman up against Monkey Island or Day of the Tentacle will show you that it still would have been good, but not great.  And besides, ten years ago Milli Vanilli was a treat as well.  Times change.

Now for the voice comments.  The voice acting did drag down the score some, but not as much as you might think.  I turned off the voices halfway through the game and enjoyed it a lot more.  I would save frequently and re-load if a new character came up so I could hear the new voice.  Voices seem to be a big polarizing issue with this game â€" almost a love it or hate it issue.  I didn’t think the voices fit the characters, but as I stated in the review, kudos for having the drive to take the time to include full voice support.  I thought the band voices were good, the Fatcomputer was well-done, and all of the female voices fit great.

The super-commercial comment was a bad attempt at humor.  This is why I review comedy games instead of writing them.

Another great comment I’ve been getting slammed into my email at the speed of light is how I can complain about lowbrow humor when I gave Beavis and Butthead four stars.  I gave Beavis and Butthead four stars because Beavis and Butthead is about lowbrow humor and they did it well, as does the LSL series.  I agree that that comment was on the harsh side, but if you re-read the review, I only commented on two instances because those were two instances that I thought were out of place in the game â€" not because the entire game was full of lowbrow humor.  The intent of that paragraph was to put it into the context of the old Zucker films â€" toss a joke a second and some of them are bound to be funny.

Boy this is turning into a thesis pretty quickly…

As for the Reality on the Norm comment, that was merely to give an idea of what the graphics in the game looked like.  That was not an insult, as I am a huge fan of the series, but merely a comparison.

Look…when I started programming 10 years ago I put out some good freeware, and people liked it.  But when I started asking for money for it, I was a professional developer, and held up against other companies that made my work look like shit.  That’s life, and it made me work harder at becoming a better programmer.  This was a good game, and if it doesn’t win a shitload of amateur gaming awards, then it’s a shame.  But if it is a commercial game â€" and it is â€" then I think there is still some work to be done before it can stand next to some of the other commercial games out there.

That’s my two cents worth.  I wrote the review, and I stand by it.  If you agree, great, and if you don’t agree, then great.  I think Roger Ebert’s an asshat, but I still read his reviews if for no other reason than to have something to discuss with other movie-philes.

I think that’s it.  If I missed something, or you just want to discuss further outside of the board, my email address is below and I welcome the discussion.

Ionias, congrats on taking that leap into the commercial field.  Slap some band-aids on those war wounds, and I’m looking forward to playing your next game.

Robert Michaud
Robert@AdventureGamers.com

[Andail]

It's nice that you take your time to come here and write such a considerate and thoughtful post. I really hope nobody will hold a grudge against you because of the review

[Haddas]

Where CAN Fatman be bought. Since I'm poor, and 15, and don't have a job, and don't get any money from my parents (EVER), and I live in the countryside. It's quite hard for me to buy ANYTHING. I was looking forward for it to be getting freeware . Maybe someone could send me a copy?

[remixor]

Where CAN Fatman be bought. Since I'm poor, and 15, and don't have a job, and don't get any money from my parents (EVER), and I live in the countryside. It's quite hard for me to buy ANYTHING. I was looking forward for it to be getting freeware . Maybe someone could send me a copy?

You have to buy it online anyway, so it really doesn't matter where you live.

http://www.socko-entertainment.com/

[Haddas]

 >:(Darn!






...Anyone want to donate money to my PayPal account??

[Ionias]

I know what I was in for when I released Fatman as commercial. The review was harsh but it's cool Robert. It's your job to look at things objectively. Not a job I would want.

Haddas: I'm looking into a way to release Fatman w/out speech for free. Just sit tight and you may be able to play it soon.

[milquetoast]

I'm a dedicated Adventure Gamers visitor, and a regular poster on their forums, but I actually disagree with a LOT of their reviews.  I think the main reason for this is that their staff has such a revolving-door manner of operation (not that this is deliberate), and their reviewers run the gamut from classic adventur gamers (like most of us here at AGS), to MYST-fanatics, to "new-age" adventure gamers (ones into all the stuff by The Adventure Company and so forth) who have never even played the classics.  As a result, their reviews can be VERY inconsistent, especially if you look at their star ratings, but even if you read the reviews objectively.  They can have some pretty questionable reviews.

Anyway, their Fatman review was another I don't particularly agree with, and even though the review wasn't that positive, I still think two stars was too low even for that particular review.  This reviewer also gave Beavis and Butthead four stars, and I'm sure that isn't a bad game, but it strikes me as a bit odd to be giving it four if you're giving Fatman 2...

Running the gamut? Inconsistancy? I think Adventure Gamers would be remiss if all their reviewers held to a happy middle distance or Borg adventure consciousness. So what if everyone has a differing age or background (though I have no clue who fits the "I love all things DreamCatcher" you intimate, if anything, we've been grossly negligent on reviewing DC/Adventure Company titles. And Myst fantatic. ?!).

Nobody gets paid to review, with the exception of a review copy here and there. It's our love for the genre and motivation to be part of what saves it that makes us stay up late working out the details and accuracy of our wording when we should be in bed. Okay, maybe I'm just speaking for myself here. ANYway...we are admonished to try and be as general as possible, i.e. "I didn't care for the dialogue tree, but if you like wordy adventures, this may intrigue you", etc. - as a reviewer we're tasked to think outside our own bias, which is a difficult thing to do; I'm inclined to be betrayed by bias to a degree, in almost every review I write. Something I intend to continually work on.

I think these things need to be kept in mind when reading other peoples reviews. We're gamers, just like you - perhaps not as intelligent or eloquent, but driven by the game nonetheless.

...It's your job to look at things objectively. Not a job I would want.

[RickJ]

Ionias,

I just want to say that I am proud of you and what you have accomplished.  In my opinion one of the most important things you have done is that you have shown that it is possible for independent game developers to make money.  I think breaking even is an important milestone and I hope you hang in there for a while longer.

Perhaps you could take the time to publish a white paper about the experience for the benefit of other would be comercializers.    

As far as the "harsh" review goes, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.   Robert seems to be honest and sincere in his review and has taken the time to come here and participate in this discussion.  That review is just a battle scar man, be proud of it.  

As far as where to go from here?  Since you already have a website setup for people to make purchases, perhaps you could offer some kind compilation of some of the better AGS games along with Fatman (with consent of the Authors of course)?   Well, just and idea.  I'll leave it to you to consider it's merits.

Again Ionias, good work.  Your an inspiration to all.

Cheers
Rick