I have a couple of game making questions.. your views..

[barefoot]

Hi

I have a couple of questions I'de like to put hoping to find a general resolve..

having played a fair number of AGS games I am still debating about the placement and use of inventory items used in the game as well as exit signs.

Scenario: you pick up an inv item in room 3, you need to use it in room 7... now if you don't pick up the inv item what do you do when you need it?

A: hint and allow the player to go back and get it?
B: give player another option to the solution?

I also notice that some games refuse to let you leave that room without having picked up an item in that room.. if nothing explains why you can't leave I personally hate! which leads onto this:

What are your views on:

A: Arrows depicting exits
B: Mouse over Hotspots
C: Combining more than 2 inv items

I know it may be down to style and taste but i just want to know your thoughts.

cheers

barefoot

[stepsoversnails]

having arrows over exits is always a good idea.
sometimes in natural environments it can be unclear what is and isn't a path, especially in low res games.
The game will also flow better if the player doesn't constantly have to select the use icon then click on a door.
but if you're putting them in your game be sure not to use the cliche big red arrow, try to make it relevant to your games universe or theme.
if your game is about big red arrows then i suppose its okay.  
Combing multiple inventory items is a neat idea. If the items are clearly meant to be put together then putting all those things together is like a small achievement for the player to feel good over. Sometimes combining multiple items together can be a puzzle in it's own. Like in the latest Monkey Island games you have to combine different coloured fluids you have gathered in little shot glasses over the island area.
Though try not to take a page from Monkey Island 4 with the useless prosthetic body parts. i lost count of the amount of things i used that abomination on. All because i was able to put it together, i figured i had to use it.

[Stupot]

Exits have to be clearly defined.  This should come from the design of the background itself, but it's definitely a good idea to put an arrow or something just to make sure... There are few things worse in life than having to resort to a walkthrough only to be told you've missed a badly defined exit.

[Tabata]

Scenario: you pick up an inv item in room 3, you need to use it in room 7... now if you don't pick up the inv item what do you do when you need it?

A: hint and allow the player to go back and get it?
B: give player another option to the solution?

Well, it all depends on the game-design:

Let's say for some reason the char can't go back to the room with the item: It is okay for me, if I am getting told, the char won't leave the scene, because ... (i.e. he is missing something) â€" I need a reason.

But if the char is able to go back there, I don't like getting stopped.

If you make a game with several possibilities to solve a problem and you don't get into a dead-end - that's okay by me, too.

What are your views on:

A: Arrows depicting exits
B: Mouse over Hotspots
C: Combining more than 2 inv items

-  arrows for the exits are only needed, if there is no path or door too be seen
-  I prefer hotspots appearing, when getting in contact with the cursor
-  combining more than two items is fun for me, if it is logical (i.e. you found several pieces of a photo/letter or create a tool)

[Radiant]

A: hint and allow the player to go back and get it?
B: give player another option to the solution?

It is generally best to allow players to go back to (most) previous rooms.

A: Arrows depicting exits
B: Mouse over Hotspots
C: Combining more than 2 inv items

(a) useful but not needed; (b) I don't understand what you mean; (c) usually overly complicated.

[TomatoesInTheHead]

Combining more than 2 items: Yes, but only if the order is irrelevant or perfectly clear. I hate it when I know I have to combine several things but only one combination is allowed for no specific reason.
The same goes for combinations of more than 2 things that are split up in combinations of 2 things, all combinations should be possible if they make at least a bit sense.
And such combinations should only be used for easy puzzles. If you get stuck and have to desperately try all combinations of inventory items, it's annoying enough to try all binary combinations (especially if the order does matter).

Mouse over hotspots: If you mean that a label should appear if you move the mouse over a hotspot (or the hotspot should otherwise be highlighted), then yes, because otherwise it gets a pixel hunt unless the graphics are so simple that there are basically only the hotspots and characters visible.

[Ali]

There are situations where a player needs an object from a room they can no longer access. As I see it, the possible solutions are:

1: Create a walking dead and force the player to reload if they forget the object (Sierra style).

2: Force the player to pick up the object before leaving (Sherlock Holmes & The Silver Earring style).

or the non-infuriating alternative:

3: Carefully integrate the puzzles so the player has the object when they need it (like in well designed games).

3 can be achieved by giving objects dual functions, placing objects within or underneath other objects. An example of this would be a map held together with a paper-clip picked up in room 3, leading to room 7. In room 7 the paper-clip can be used as a lockpick, but there is no way the player could be stuck without it.

To address your actual question:

A: Arrows depicting exits
I agree that a well drawn backdrop doesn't normally require this. However there was one beautiful backdrop in the Journey Down that had me stumped for ages, until I discovered the exit to the junk yard. So I say they're a good idea!

B: Mouse over Hotspots
I think these are a great idea. Without mouseovers I just waste time clicking on different parts of a forest (for example) to see if the game has different descriptions for each tree and shrub, or if it's all just 'forest'.

C: Combining more than 2 inv items
In the context of a recipe / magic spell / mechanical puzzle I think this is perfectly legitimate. It's only when the combined items are impossible to guess that I'd get annoyed.

[cat]

However there was one beautiful backdrop in the Journey Down that had me stumped for ages, until I discovered the exit to the junk yard.

I'm not the only one who didn't find this exit!

[WHAM]

Scenario: you pick up an inv item in room 3, you need to use it in room 7... now if you don't pick up the inv item what do you do when you need it?

A: hint and allow the player to go back and get it?
B: give player another option to the solution?

I think that A should be the default, but if the story or game's progression demands that Room 3 is now unaccessible, use B. Optional solutions are always nice, and I also try to employ:
C: Allow player to bypass the entire puzzle, exchanging it for a different challenge later in the game. For instance, failing to complete a locked-door puzzle in Room 7 in time or not having the correct item means the player will have to take a different route from Room 6, which leads to a different puzzle or a maze or something.

A: Arrows depicting exits
B: Mouse over Hotspots
C: Combining more than 2 inv items

A: These are OK, but often do not blend too well with backgrounds. I myself use light sources (the Valve method) to mark out exits. I also make a point to keep the doors clearly visible whenever possible.
B: Cannot answer, as I am unsure what you mean by this? Hotspots that get triggered by mouse simply hovering over them? HATE! HATE! BURN! BURN!
C: Why not, but I recommend making it possible to combine the items in any order. This can be done by adding 'tween items, or by forcing the player to assemble the item on a workbench etc (see assembling the bomb in Bioshock).

[Stupot]

However there was one beautiful backdrop in the Journey Down that had me stumped for ages, until I discovered the exit to the junk yard.

I'm not the only one who didn't find this exit!

Me too actually... until I clicked on it by accident.  I was stuck for quite a while before that.

[barefoot]

Hi

Iv'e never played Journey Down but understand what you are trying to say.

cheers

barefoot

[Matti]

Iv'e never played Journey Down

What? Do it, goddamit! 

I had some troubles finding that exit too, btw.

[David Ostman]

Scenario: you pick up an inv item in room 3, you need to use it in room 7... now if you don't pick up the inv item what do you do when you need it?

A: hint and allow the player to go back and get it?
B: give player another option to the solution?

A, but ideally B. I have a few B's in one of my designs but it does add that extra time, and use it too often and the player starts expecting the solution is always nearby.

I also notice that some games refuse to let you leave that room without having picked up an item in that room..

I'd do that as a last resort, "I have a strong feeling I shouldn't leave quite yet..." or something. Give the player hints a couple of times, and if they still leave, feel free to punish them later. Though hopefully I've designed my game well enough that these issues don't arise.

A: Arrows depicting exits
B: Mouse over Hotspots
C: Combining more than 2 inv items

A, this depends on the rest of the art direction. If UI elements like these are common in the game, I don't have a problem with it.
B, I prefer this. I'm assuming the exits are visible to the character, so if the player hovers over an exit there should be a clear "EXIT" telling me I can leave that way, just like a mouseover telling me "dirty rag" lets me know that undefined lowres pixeljunk is a dirty rag. If the exit isn't obvious to the character it's because something is blocking it, and only after clearing the block an "EXIT" will pop up on mouseover.
C, no problem. I've played enough games where you have to combine 3+ items in certain order without it bugging me. As long as it's not entirely illogical it usually makes me feel like MacGyver, which I don't mind at all.