Just a question about AGS future

[InCreator]

I looked at Sam and Max 2 website and realized that adventure games are becoming modern.

Just wanted to ask, is it possible, some day or way, that we will see AGS 3D? Lucasarts is implementing their Grim Fandango engine and Larry 8 will be in 3D, too.

But 3D-characters in adventure games have existed since inventing of that technology (like in Alone in the dark series, for example)

[Privateer Puddin']

Alone in the dark was an adventure?  :o

[InCreator]

well, wasn't it? Maybe too much Tomb-Raidery, but still, inventory items, a story/plot, adventure-gamey look and so on.
I'd just call it "an adventure game with endless arcade parts"... heh

[Dan2552]

i did like grim fandango, but i still prefer the good old point & click.
and 3D games would be all harder

[scotch]

I've been looking high and low for a 3d adventure game engine, or a 3d engine I could convert to be an adventure game engine (with my extremely limted programming ability)  3D adventures wouldn't have to be harder to make really.. animation becomes easier I think.  Graphically I'd find it about the same amount of work personally.

As for AGS, I don't think it could easily make a transition to 3d.. a whole new engine would probably be the same amount of work I would imagine.

I'd love to make an adventure that pushed the lmits of graphics ahrdware, because since scenes in adventures are so controlled you can increase detail and effects to higher levels than you could in any other game genre.. that's why historically adventures have often looked prettier than other games of their time I suppose.

[j-Hed]

I may sound a bit conservative but I don't like 3D adventuregames because:

A) 3D offers less or no atmosfere/livelyness to the game

B) 3D doesn't offer better features (if it would offer any other features it wouldn't be a point 'n click adventure)

But maybe I would accept 3D adventures if the characters had maybe cell shading to look cartoonish and the textures in the backgrounds would be hand painted (like disney).

Keep AGS 2D! (But don't listen to me, I'm just a 2D freak hehe)

[James Kay]

3D requires much more technical knowledge.
The good thing about AGS is that anybody can make an adventure. All you need is a good story. Mock up some simple screens in MSPaint, bish bash bosh, you have an adventure. Also, the community has accepted that good graphics not a good adventure make and are willing to see beyond that.

3D however, when it's bad, it's not just ugly, it's technically unworkable.
I can see it now, cuboid objects with 2000 polys, texture sizes off the charts. Minimum requirements: a Pentium 500.
Art-wise it is MUCH more work than 2D. You have to model and bone a character animate it (which is much harder in 3D!), texture it properly, which goes for the environments as well, and everything has to be lit properly. All within probably strict technical boundries.

So I think a 3D AGS is a bad idea. If you want to make amateur 3D games, try Shockwave 3D first. You'll see it's no cakewalk!

[juncmodule]

Sorry, wrong answer.

The reason this will never happen.

FILE SIZE.

Plain and simple. These games are distributed over the internet. Any large 3D game of any 'real' quality would have to be a good 100MB, and I think that is being generous.

You could make a 100MB game with AGS fairly easily. Plugins, cut scene movies, stereo sound...

It's just not practical.

This thread could probably be in Adventure Chat. Not really a technical issue.

Not to mention, what you are proposing, 3D AGS, wouldn't be AGS anymore. Chris would have to rewrite everything I'm sure. If Chris is still doing this ten years from now, maybe. But I kind of doubt it.

Besides, if I'm not beating up hookers or blowing away aliens, I don't want 3D.

later,
-junc

[Kweepa]

I download 100Mb files all the time.
So really, I don't think that's the issue.

I agree with the Belgian. Creating that amount of content is difficult and time consuming - plugins don't take much space and pre-rendered cutscenes are hard to make. Maybe music... but then there's mp3.

[Another reason is simply that Chris and us users want AGS to make games like the oldies. We don't want no stinking 3d.]

[Paper Carnival]

Heh...

I don't like 3d adventure games that much... I mean, I love nice smooth 3d graphics, but when it comes to adventure games, I really prefer 2d (and I am talking about 3rd person 2d, because I prefer 3d than 1st person 2d ).

I mean, look at the S&M screenshots from the lucas arts site and then look at the concept art images... Which ones do u prefer? I prefer the concept art ones.

The same applied to MI3 and 4. While the gfx of MI4 were still beautiful, I prefered the gfx of MI3.

Anyway, this could be done using plug ins. It would be hard work, but still very possible. I mean, take GM for example. It is a proggy that is supposed to do any kind of 2d games only (but when it comes to adventure games, AGS is better). Then there was another guy who made a dll which holds functions like render, create cube, load 3d models etc, making 3d games very possible (and easy).

In case some veteran programmer is interested, I'll tell you how such a dll would work. The dll would allow the 2d game to be run in the background, exactly the same way it would run without it. The dll just renders the scene over the window of the 2d game. That's all. You could then use the functions to draw models where the characters/objects are located and stuff like that. Still, it's hard work but a possible solution.

All in all, if you really want to make a 3d adventure game (which is something I do not recommend) then AGS is not for you. You better try Blitz3d (nice) or DarkBasic (yuck), which are both easy for their capabilities.

[Scorpiorus]

Alone in the dark was an adventure?  :o

I think it is. To me it's more adventure (not quest or action only) than any other, as it does contain not only quest puzzles but also a lot of action elements and that is the game where you can choose how to proceed ethier solve a puzzle or rush to attack.

*Scorpiorus remembers how he passed the worm directly knowing nothing about a secret passage in the Jeremy's Study.

That is also why I like the QFG series.


As about 3d in AGS it depends on how much 3d you mean. Of course a whole 3d world would requre building the engine from scratch. On the other hand adding of 3d characters/objects, similar to how Guybrush suggests, seems possible to me. Plugins system should be able to handle this. So, we can have a prerendered background while the plugin renders the character on the fly replacing his view frames with those rendered bitmaps. Some sort of an Alone in the dark - style. Well, that method will lack for precious collision detection(baselines instead). Also diffiiculties related with camera (each room has it's own camera) directions may occur, i.e. if we have two cameras overlapping the same area, we should see both rooms with their objects and characters.

~Cheers

[Pumaman]

AGS will never become a full first-person 3D system. It is possible that 3D characters could make an appearance at some point (a-la Bioforge), but the engine just isn't designed for or suitable for a fully 3D environment.

[Joseph DiPerla]

Dang, Chris beat me to a comment.

I was gonna say that it might only be possible for the moment to have 3D characters and objects in an adventure game with AGS.

And prolly the next best thing to try and make AGS 3D like would be that you have the ability to save different images to be different room angles. EG: One would be facing the right wall, the other image would be you facing the left wall etc... But the only thing you could do is really change the bitmap of that scene. I know what I just said might not make sense, but thats becouse I just explain things badly.

But yeah, you would be limited in what you could do in 3d in ags.

Plus how many people really do program in 3d here? I use poser to make my characters, but does anyone else really do this type of stuff other than Danny and Terranrich?

Just my two blue cups.

[Joseph DiPerla]

Just thought of something stupid...

Since most users here are Windows users, maybe someone could create a 3D plugin for 3D NPC characters, and objects.

Thats one way of implementing 3D in AGS.

Although I cant see how with a plugin though you could make the playing character 3D.

JD

[Pumaman]

It's theoretically possible that a plugin could do it, though it might need a few extra API hooks into the AGS engine. Depends if there's anyone willing to take up the challenge, really

[InCreator]

Anyway, I keep on making a game with 3d-rendered backgrounds and 2d craracters. Just thought it could be much easier vice versa.

[Joseph DiPerla]

Yeah I think it is easier to do 3D Characters.

If someone does create a plugin for this, I will e-mail them my poser 2 3D character.

JD

[James Kay]

If someone does create a plugin for this, I will e-mail them my poser 2 3D character.

This is what I meant: from what I can remember, Poser creates fairly hi-poly models that would require some substantial clean-up (by someone who understands 3D!!) before they will run smoothly and/or effeciently without the neeed for a super high spec PC.
My honest opinion would be, like others have said, that AGS is an oldie-adventure games creator, for those games we all love(d) so much.  A plugin would be cool, but I don't think the core of AGS should be altered (just refined).

[evilspacefart]

Also bear in mind Chris is making AGS for free and I think it is ridiculous to ask someone working on a free system to produce a 3d environment game creation system for us and still have a normal life. Introducing 3d would open a whole new can of worms into an already great system.
There are many 3d systems out there (blitzbasic, darkbasic, 3dgame maker... etc) that are already available. They have outdorr and indoor map maker progs/plugins available too. If 3d is that important to you (this is to no one in particular), I humbly suggest trying one of those systems. (I saw darkbasic for $20 USD - that's right)

[Snake]

I download 100Mb files all the time.
So really, I don't think that's the issue.

Sheit. Not everybody does. I get scared to download anything over a megabyte and a half.

And on topic about AGS 3D:
F*ck 3D.


--Snake