List of Game Clichés

[Dambuilder]

Just one question: I want to make a rpg with a female character. So I'm trying to figure out why should would go into a magical castle (with traps, moving doors, monsters and all). You see I don't see any reason, and I'd hate to put that she has to save the world or that kinda bullshit.

Motivation is what keeps any of us going. And I can't find hers...

Well, I think in first place you should develop her character, if you haven't done so already. Usually that should lead to a good motivation by itself.
Also, it's important whether this is the very premise of the story itself or just part of it...

Mh, some reason I could think of without knowing anything about her would be:
- She's a treasure hunter and heard of this nifty, valuable treasure hidden in the castle.
- Or she's some sort of ghost hunter and was hired to get rid of some sort of ghost that hid away in the castle.
- Maybe she's a mage and needs some ingredients that only grow in the castle's basement.
- Or she's looking for her pet/brother/sister/friend/granny, who got lost in the castle for some reason.
- She might be a traveller who accidentally found the castle when looking for shelter from the rain.
- Her courage is put to a test by the gang she'd love to join.
(Or a combination: Looking for a friend who took this courage test thingy)
- Or the other way around, she wants to prove to her gang how wrong they are about spouting such rumors about a "monster castle".

Most likely none of those options are that original. But then again, personally I think it's not necessarily the premise that makes a story original, but the way you tell it and put your own spin to it.

Well, hope this is of any help! ^^;

[GarageGothic]

Just one question: I want to make a rpg with a female character. So I'm trying to figure out why should would go into a magical castle (with traps, moving doors, monsters and all). You see I don't see any reason, and I'd hate to put that she has to save the world or that kinda bullshit.

Put a loved one in peril. That always works - just watch "Beauty and the Beast" again. But you might want to put a twist on this. Remember "Labyrinth" where the girl wishes that her little brother would be taken by the goblin king, and exactly that happens?

Seriously though, you should first of all try to work out the theme of the story. What's the most valuable thing to the player character (family, freedom, friendship... or something else not starting with an "f"), and then put that at stake.

Edit: You might actually want to give the character a flaw, which ends her up in this situation. And if told within a traditional dramatic structure, her experiences in the castle will let her overcome this flaw. Maybe she's stubborn or greedy, or perhaps she's afraid of everything, fleeing into the castle only to find something much worse than what she was running from.

[Wellington]

Traps and moving doors? I hope these aren't the slow-moving kind. Those are silly.

Well, I agree with the above advice about motivation. But there are a number of other neat reasons for somebody to go into that kind of castle that could lead to entire stories in themselves.

What if the princess owns the castle, and, in a twist on the amnesia plot, everybody has amnesia BUT her, and so she isn't recognized by the security, and has to figure out what happened?

What if the princess's father, the king, is a tyrant, and the princess wants to depose him - preferably bloodlessly - and put somebody else on the throne?

What if the princess is in exile for a wicked attempt to usurp the throne, and is trying again, and only the king's loyal but bumbling vizier and the palace guards can stop her? You don't get enough evil princesses and good viziers, you know.

What if she is on a diplomatic visit to a country, war is declared during her stay, and she ends up trying to do some impromptu spying and learn the enemy's battle plans?

[bspeers]

I had a big-long post about storytelling styles, but it was messy and mostly pointless.  My advice is to not have A reason to enter the game, but many.  Start off with one perhaps, and then twist it a bit as you go along so as to not have the obvious "premise-game-return to premise for bosses" mode. 

For example, if Susan's son is lost in the house, it makes sense for her to go in and solve a few puzzles/dodge things.  But how long would she be in there before getting out, getting sensible and calling for some help?  Now, a manipulative writer could just keep giving her glimpses of her son to go deeper into the maze, but there are more clever ways to twist the basic plot.  What if she tries to get out but can't--then the mystery would change gears a bit.  What if she finds her son/the treasure/Her father's will but the son came in for something even more important [or] now they can't get out again [or] the son has found a treasure map they can use together [or] there is a voicing calling from deeper in [or] the one item she wanted from the treasure is missing [or] her father has asked her to retrieve something from the top floor.

New twists can be added in at various points, perhaps calling into question the purpose of the whole quest, or pushing back the end-point or adding a new level of complexity.  It's not necessarily very hard, and makes the plot less superficial.

[Wellington]

bspeers has a point. And here's another adventure game cliché to avoid:

Everybody does what they do for only one reason, and one alone. Maaaybe two, if it's a particularly subtle game.

[edmundito]

Nicked from Grumpy Gamer, this one is a list of console rpg clichés:

http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html

[flamingdog]

I think puzzles in a game, especially an adventure game, need to arise from character and plot, rather than your characters simply being rats in a maze of your design. As I said in another thread, a plot built to connect the dots between a series of tricky tasks isn't going to be as compelling as a plot, complete with fully-realised characters, which in turn give rise to obstacles that then must be solved. I don't think anyone necessarily resents being given a puzzle that they've seen before as long as the reason is good. If you really can't see past the 'cliche' of the puzzles, then you're either playing a game that has too thin a plot, or you're allowing your 'professional' critique of the game to override your suspension of disbelief and engagement with the story.

IMHO.

[Wellington]

Graham Nelson said that an adventure game is a narrative at war with a crossword.

To be worth playing, an adventure needs to give the player the ability to meaningfully affect the story, explore a fascinating world, and/or solve really interesting puzzles. Not all of the above are necessary, but a game needs more than a compelling story with some overused puzzles layered on top.

Graphic adventure games have a very high busywork-to-fun ratio, in my experience. It's not as severe as that of some RPGs, but it's up there. Most of your time is spent walking around, scanning the screen for objects, and going through what are often very dull conversation trees. (Lucasarts has consistently avoided the third problem, but Grim Fandango had real issues with the first, especially in Rubacava.) Every so often, you get a bit of story, and you solve puzzles.

So, if the puzzles are not original, challenging, and clever, you end up with what amounts to a story that's been stretched as thin as possible and dispensed as a reward for walking around and doing trivial stuff. Cliché puzzles might convince the designer that the player is having fun, but they're really no better than another walk across the game map. Especially when they force the player to cross the map to solve them.

And, if you're going to watch a story, you might as well watch a movie or read a book, and get much more story and character development for your time and money. Gameplay has to be more than a set of roadblocks to the story.

I agree that making the puzzles arise naturally from the plot, characters, and setting is a good first step here - it keeps you honest, and prevents you from adding too much dull filler. But the most cliché puzzles DON'T arise naturally from these elements. Puzzles like bribing a guard aren't overused unless a game consists entirely of them. Puzzles like the horrible cliché discussed above are overused if the game even uses them once.

So, if I can't see past the cliché of the puzzles to the compelling story, it could be because I could be watching a movie, and not have to see past ANYTHING to get to the story.  A game should not have to apologize for its puzzles.

Like mazes. When was the last time you saw a genuinely _plausible_ maze in a game? They make no sense as a security measure.

Or the ubiquitous puzzle mentioned earlier in the thread. How often do you see a place where it would actually work?

Or slider puzzles. They're a fixture of the Myst-clones, but they've made their way into traditional adventures, too. WHY?

We shouldn't settle for a good story and bad puzzles, or good puzzles and a lousy story.

[Vespr]

Whenever I see a stick, some long spool of thread or wire and a magnet/hook/bendable piece of metal in my inventory box I exhibit a Pavlovian Response where I immediately try to create a fishing rod. 

[Nikolas]

You know generally I believe that adventures and rpgs are a great way to tell a story. It is like reading a book, cause you do use your imagination to solve riddles. Now, usually there are puzzles to provide a somewhat more challenging way for the player to see the story, otherwise the player would choose to read a book. This is why I spend so much time trying to figure out why she would get into the castle.To make the book part of the game interesting, and after I'll make the puzzles hopefully interesting...

And thanks everybody 

[Grundislav]

What about the cliché of the cliffhanger ending?Ã,  Or is it really a cliché?Ã,  They would probably be more effective in a series of games, like the ending of Quest for Glory 3.

So, would a cliffhanger ending make you feel cheated? Excited to see what happens next? Both?

This is purely theoretical of course...it's not like I'm going to have any cliffhanger endings in any of my games...no sir. Never.

[esper]

If there's a cliffhanger at the end of BJ5 you'd damn well better be in production of six IMMEDIATELY!

[simulacra]

Graham Nelson said that an adventure game is a narrative at war with a crossword.

For the game I've just finished, I more or less decided to skip the puzzle part and focus on the exploration/story part. I suspect that people will think that I "failed" to make puzzles, while I actually wanted to make more of a interactive graphical novel rather than a interactive graphical novel combined with minesweeper.