market research

[InCreator]

Hm. I'm making an adventure game (doh!) and I was just wondering (as I usually do hundred seven times a day) that whole thing sucks and why the hell am I doing this. And then I felt (as I also feel millions of times a day) that I want to work my arse off this time and make something REALLY good.

Just... just that I don't have enough motivation and what's the point when all I get is mom telling me that my 32-hour day cycle (22h cpu, 10h sleep) isn't normal and dad steps occasionally to my room to ask when the hell am I going to find a job and stop making telephone/electrical bills.

So... I... (You can skip next part)

Want to do a game. And sell it.
Want to do a game that doesn't make me guilty charging money for it. Not in front of this community or my concience (did i write this right? whatever, you'll get it.). As I have no job and nobody believes in me, making all my relatives see that this endeless ass-warming at the front of a computer is really able to produce money of any kind, would be big thing for me.

So. Here I wonder. How much money could I ask for a game? I want price to be fair enough not to rip people off and make them burning pirate cd-s. I live in Estonia and we haven't changed our currency to euro yet, so what looks a little to other people, is pretty good price for us - and vice versa. Relation to euro/dollar is 15:1.
and with a dollar, I can already supply myself with nicotine for one day. Or two empty recordable CD-s. Even three. For example, 15 bucks already supply me with cigarettes for half a month! And If I get 15$ or 15â,¬ for every copy and manage to sell at least few every week... well, nice dream it would be.

So - 15$. Is it too much for a full game, with s3m self-tracked music, 3ds max rendered-backgrounds, and 2D sprites?

[Totoro]

In General I wouldn't think 15$ are too much, but even most of the professional adventures are dumbed priced at the moment, runaway, monkey island 3, Larry7, very very cheap, and compared to them 15$ might look expensive, even though its a new game. I would not underestimate the psychological effect of "9,99"
Good luck with your game! Can you show any samples already?

[InCreator]

actually - no. Problem is that my computer is out of action at the moment and new one is somewhere between U.S. and Estonia two weeks for now! I really cannot do 3D on Pentium 75Mhz... Damn this postal system...  But I'm currently working on the homepage and results will be up as soon as I get my machine.

[Eggie]

$15 dollars sounds reasonable enough to me for a decent-lengthed, non-buggy, well-designed game.
Just don't get too caught up in the "I'M GOING TO BE RICH!!" thing...at most, you'll probably be able to make back the money you spent on distributing the thing in the first place and maybe a few pounds extra for your cylindrical slavedrivers.

[InCreator]

I really don't think that ANYONE could get rich just by making a computer game, especially when doing all the stuff alone. As I said, I'm just trying to find a way to make all thing worth something. To cover up all the damage that insomniac lifestyle, these incredible amounts of caffeine and those "cylindrical slavedrivers" (some vocabulary, eh), and monitor does to my eyes and health. And time. Anyway, I'd like to have some reasonable price to be set and then see if I'm able to produce something worth it.

I have a sickness called perfectionism. Really painful one. I'm never statisfied with yesterday because I was in experienced/less smart/not so good/etc. then. So I feel like my games will be never complete. Like this post in this thread. It's 6th time I edit it! Yufster already posted something and I'm still trying to finish my line of thoughts... So I never managed to give any of my creations a deadline- simply because when I make a game with 15 rooms, after thing is complete, I ovelook room 1 and notice how much it differs from room 15. Because there's 13 rooms of learning and getting better at rooms, between.

With other trade articles, handmade things cost a lot more than ones made in factory. Like clothes and accessories and so. Can we pull similar line between computer games? Pleurghburg got lots of attention but I'm sure that Chrille saw a lot more hell while doing this than any Lucasarts/Sierra/Whatever development team could even imagine. Doesn't it make his game better then a some way?

You can buy a game where's room that was made by 4 proffesional guys, but you want a room that was made by one, amateur guy, for free? A bit unfair, isn't it? And I'm talking about public opinion here. Of course, often this amateur guy doesn't give a heck and is happy to spread his room without any charge, even happy that so - it finds more audience.

Maybe fact that freeware developers get nothing but emotional statisfaction, is one of the reasons why we have so many greatly-started-but-stopped-at-some-point game projects.
Of course, If I'd have a life (heh) I'd make games freeware only.
Yet, I haven't sold a piece of of my own creations and I'd like to give a try. Even if It gives me just one penny. It's more like an ambition or something. I could look up and say: "Here! My fantasy and drawing/programming/whatever skill IS worth something!" Fantasy nor skill isn't something we could see or touch. A penny is.



As we talk about reasonable price - It's pretty clear already that biggest winners here are potential buyers/players.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not up for riches. I started this thread because I really don't imagine myself releasing a demo and then asking "um - how much would you offer for that game?"

[Meowster]

$9.99 is the best thing that ever happened. Remember, whatever your initial price, TAKE AWAY 1 CENT. It makes it look about ten dollars cheaper.

If it's a good game of course I'd buy it. Although I'd want it to be something original and fun. You really want great characters and unfortunately, I hate saying this but... good graphics. So long as they're WELL DESIGNED and well suited to your game, it doesn't matter if it's Monkey Island 1 good, or Grim Fandango good. Just as long as it's well designed. With nice music. But above all, a nice plot and characters.

And a nice length. With a nice, well driven story.

[Kweepa]

Something interesting that's been shown in the casual games and shareware market is that raising the price often results in more sales, because the product instantly seems better.
I don't have any references for this though - sorry.

Steve

[juncmodule]

You should read the review of Fatman over at Adventure Gamers. It's depressing.

The problem with selling a game is that you put yourself into a different category. Pleaurghburg is well known because it is free. If it wasn't it would recieve the same kind of nasty reviews that Fatman got, and probably not be as popular. People look differently at games if they are free.

On the other hand Ionias did say that he broke even and made a little cash with Fatman. So regardless of bad or good reviews...it sounds like he got what you are looking for. (I also think that Ionias pulled out too quickly, I think after a few years Fatman will have the same kind of attention that Pleaurghburg does.)

All I'm saying is you will have to be patient and expect some people to tell you your game is crap. If you are so set on proving your parents and whoever wrong by making money on something...I just think you should be prepared for harsher critics.

I don't see a problem with your idea and I think you could sell a game and get what you want out of it. It just sounds like you might end up getting your feelings hurt by what some people may say about your game.

good luck,
-junc  

[Meowster]

And no spelling mistakes. That's an absolute must. Spelling mistakes instantly make it look crap, even if it's awesome.

[InCreator]

Spelling mistakes? That's why i am a member of this super-user-friendly community here. I'm sure you guys even help to translate my game into spanish, if needed. But then again - If I'm making any money with that game - would be you as helpful then?

[remixor]

Well, I'm not speaking for everybody (even myself), but remember that if you expect people to do work for you and you yourself are making money, it may not look good to ask them to do it for free.

[Minimi]

Increator, I think everybody has their own goals, and dreams about the developing... like I'd like to make about 15 different games, but it doesn't matter.

Because you should just start on your game, and work, and work and work on it... after working, work some more. You get the idea? And when you are far enough, bring out a demo of the game, and ask for peoples opinions... and after editing alot, and researching and stuff like that... then the time comes to think about maybee going to sell it.

But I want to end with a sentence I read once on this forum :

"The more money you gain, the more respect you lose".

[Eggie]

I'd work on a low-profit game for a free copy.  

[InCreator]

Free copy? Indeed. And maybe some credits, too. This may be especially tempting if game is really good and gets some positive reaction from public.

[big brother]

The odd-number pricing ($9.99 instead of $10.00) has been proven to be especially effective with price-sensitive consumers (like us).

Even-number pricing is used to enhance a product's perceived value. For example, if you've ever shopped for cologne, you might notice that the price ranges from ~$15 - $100+ for a comparable sized amount. You might ask yourself, "How much better can the $100 cologne be?"

The simple answer: marketing. In order to appeal to a certain segment of consumers, cologne is priced accordingly. A "one size fits all" approach rarely works in business, so a designer that makes cologne will make as many different kinds as are worthwhile market targets (which his/her research indicates).

This is closely related to the concept of price discrimination, which occurs when an identical (or close-to) product is sold for different prices to different groups of people. An example of this would be airline tickets.

Different groups of people have different demands for the same product, and those demands have different elasticities. Because the demand for a typical business trip is relatively inelastic, it will almost always be more expensive than a vacation. The airlines recognize that many business trips are planned over a weekend, and not very far in advance, so they charge accordingly.

On the other hand, the demand for a vacation (flight over the holidays) is relatively elastic (because the exact date and location tends to be flexible. And if prices are too high, maybe you won't even take a vacation at all.), so it tends to be cheaper.

Because the tickets can only be used with a certain personal identification, the airlines prevent the resale of tickets, tightening their control on the market.

However, considering your position selling a video game, you must estimate your profit. In your liabilities, include the price of the time you plan to spend working on this game, the cost of a business license, packaging costs, webspace and domain costs, taxes, and any tools you have to buy for this project.
Compare your profit to your opportunity cost, which is the value of the next best thing you could be doing with your time.

Here's an simplified example:

Say you spend 700 hours making your game, which you sell for $10 + S & H.  Your game is amazing, and you sell 700 copies.
Let's say you don't register a business, don't pay income or sales taxes, and have no overhead.
Your return comes to $10 per hour (this assumes, of course, you make all your sales within the first hour that you've finished the game, which is highly unlikely.)
Even just looking at this extremely optimistic example, it would be more profitable for you to spend your time at a corporate internship.

Basically, it's very difficult to make enough money with an amateur adventure game to justify your time, so it needs to be about more than just money. AGS is a great hobby, but there's a reason most of the games made with it are free.

[Anym]

I wouldn't buy the game if I knew that you are going to buy yourself cigarettes with my money tough.

[MrColossal]

But I want to end with a sentence I read once on this forum :

"The more money you gain, the more respect you lose".

um... WHAT?

where did you read that and what does that matter at all? more importantly who said that?

who here lost respect for Ionias?

[Minimi]

Hey Eric, I looked it up for you on the forum, and found it

http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=8191

It seems like Alky said that! And btw... I'm not saying it is a fact, and the same for every game, but in a way, I think you do lose respect by making it commercial

[InCreator]

Anym - this cigarette thing was FOR EXAMPLE. I have lots of things I could do with money - we all have. Just with adventure game developing as a hobby - It doesn't bring in anything. I'm looking at the ways to make my time&work worth something, get myself more motivation to advance at this, and hundred other things related to that. Maybe to get public attention? Or getting famous? Or get a job offer from some low-profit less-known software company? Who knows?
Or maybe just wash off the fact that I'm speaking along with many topics in this forum, yet no-one has played any of my games because all my ideas are unfinished yet and when I'm hitting the Games page, I want to give my best. After all, even if I don't manage to produce something sell-able, I haven't still lost anything.

[MrColossal]

heh well i think that's a silly thing to thing minimi...

especially when you yourself wanted to make a commercial game, Mike Doak made a commercial game and he's pretty well respected [and not just cause he made a commercial game but cause he's a good guy] i plan on making a commercial game, janaar/2ma2/pessi are making a commercial game and no one should hold that against them

maybe if you could elaborate on what you mean