Has anyone ever heard of Kyrandia!!!

[Andail]

Get a room, for crying out loud.

[Helm]

I'd never cheat on you with her, petter

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

And before I forget, I really enjoyed the fireberry puzzle in Kyrandia 1. It was better than just a normal maze and it really took some thinking to get through. Anyone who complains about it is just really lazy.

Well, sure, I mean, if dying-restoring-knowing_that's_not_the_room_you_can_go_to_because_it_has_no_fireberry_bush as an inetgral part of the gameplay is a *good* and *logical* thing. I mean, it would be so much better if we could SEE, on certain rooms, which (if any) of the adjacent rooms had a fireberry bush.

[TheYak]

I still found it a nice twist.  If anything, I think Kyrandia was primarily guilty of the ultimate game cliche - that of grabbing anything you can conceivably pick up even if it seems to have no purpose.  At least with most adventures, the needed device or object is readily apparent, but Kyrandia liked to make you carry around a Dead Hippo/Cream Cheese combination object for the entire game so you could use it to divert nemeses from their evil goals.

Again, Kyra 3 had its kick-ass parts despite all the pre-rendered graphics.  While the jail sequences were irritating, they were fairly unique at the time (the first couple times).  There was a way to escape or skip them after awhile, wasn't there?  And I really don't know how you can't love a game where in a farm area Malcolm quips, "Ah.  Smell that dairy air." The height of pre-pubescent humor incarnate! Later sections kept me entertained by having my opinion changed from believing them utterly stupid, to believing them significantly brilliant, and back again (like the waterfall puzzle).

[Gilbert]

Well, sure, I mean, if dying-restoring-knowing_that's_not_the_room_you_can_go_to_because_it_has_no_fireberry_bush as an inetgral part of the gameplay is a *good* and *logical* thing.

Yes it's a VERY good thing, I loved that very much, it's a game that really drove me lazy butt to actually draw maps. If you draw map it's great, if you just go guessing and trial-&-error everytime you use the maze it's your own problem.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

I never used trial-and-error, if that's what you're saying. In adventure games I alwasy save before entering mazes, then go in to see what kind of a maze it is, and if necessary I go back and start mapping. I would have mapped this one anyway, and map it I did. In fact, no one here talked about "guessing", so I'm not sure where your point comes from... anyway, maybe my point was misinterpreted. I certainly didn't mean it was bad because it meant mapping. It was bad (IMO) because it meant repeatedly dying, and not being able to avoid it. Cumbersome, irritating, needless, and best way to slap you out of the game. Besides, I thought dying served either a) Humurous purposes (and then it was quite hinted), b) Punishment, or c) Plot device. It's neither of the 3, since it's not funny, it's not punishment (I mean, punishment for what?), and it's no plot device. At best, maybe a gameplay device, but if so, and this is just my one opinion, it's one the game could well do without.

I'm not talking about making the game easier, just fairer and less irritating.

[Gilbert]

I think the maze map can be mapped sufficient enough to pass it with no more than 6 dies, was that too many? I think it's quite fair. Actually I liked the maze so much that even after I passed it I went on mapping the rooms that're unnecessary to visit, and enjoyed the deaths in between, I'm never an opposer to pointless deaths in adventure games (and the deaths in this game were not pointless either), provided they're not frustrating like playing an arcade sequence that you'll lose 99% of the time.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

6 dies?

<grin> I think we've found the problem. I'm a worse maze-navigator. Still, you kinda had to map most rooms, on account of those "special" rooms with stuff.

Ayuh, as far as concerns overall deaths they weren't all bad, it was just this maze-death system that had peeved me.

I'm probably sounding like I hate the series. I don't, it just disappointed me on some levels.