The "Adventure Game Studio Community" Appreciation thread.

[Joseph DiPerla]

Currently I am in a kick of wanting to create adventure games and it seems that this drive is a more permanent one than usual. So I try my hand at creating some graphics and creating a game and such. You know what? Just creating the simplest graphics or trying to follow the tutorials I have found are just so difficult. I cant seem to create a basic room right, EVEN after following a tutorial!

Yet, I see soooo many GREAT games out here and that have been released over the years such as Rob Blanc, Garfield, A tale of two Kingdoms, Shaila of the Sith, Fatman, The apprentice Games, JP Cosmo games, Charlie Foxtrot, The Cosmo Quest Trilogy, Larry Vales, Life of Donald Duck, Zak 2, Maniac Mansion Deluxe, Mind's Eye, Pleurghburg, All the VGA remakes and much much more that are just too many to name. And when I see all these games I think "WOW! These guys are great!"

Then I think of some of the older members and new members we have such as Mods, Erica Mclane, Roy Lazarovich, Helm, Phil Reed, Mr. Colosal, ProgZMax, SubSpark and many many others and how they worked hard to support the community in general.

Or even our porters such as Elektroshokker who is doing a find job or ETG and Steve McRea. We really owe a lot of thanks for the hard work they put forth.

Not too mention Chris Jones for creating AGS and sparking more interest in Adventure Games.

I just wanted to say thank you! If you guys have anyone you want to mentione go right ahead.

Now for my suggestions list.... Nah, just kidding

[FruitTree]

hear hear!!!

[m0ds]

I don't feel like sucking AGS off right now, but there is one part of your post that hammered home, something I was thinking about the other day...

ou know what? Just creating the simplest graphics or trying to follow the tutorials I have found are just so difficult.

I'd love to do some research into it, find out how many games have been completed by "musicians" or "programmers", because I'm almost certain just about every "complete game" has been made by someone who can draw. AGS is for everyone yes, but don't kid yourself - you need to be an artist to actually have a hope in hell in completing something decent, worth-while. This is why I have resorted to methods that don't require raw art, perhaps you should too Joey. For example, download a 3D world building program and just make a simple adventure that way. You'd be surprised at how rewarding it is to actually reach room 15, even if the graphics are crap.

Anyways I'm pretty sure there's a similar thread to this kicking about in GenGen, but I'll let it slide

[Radiant]

you need to be an artist to actually have a hope in hell in completing something decent, worth-while.

I beg to differ...

[Joseph DiPerla]

Radiant, that is some skilled art, so I dont think you can counter Mods on this one.

[Matti]

I think Radiant's point is that you CAN do something decent + worthwile without being an artist, but of course you need an artist to help you then (Radiant didn't make those graphics).

I myself wouldn't ever have had the idea to make a game without knowing my artistic skills..

[Vince Twelve]

I don't consider myself an artist at all.  But there are still ways around it. 

For Anna, I used uber-minimalistic backgrounds and traced over a 3d animation of a walkcycle made by someone else for the character.  I used my skills in programming to add a distinctive pseudo 3-d look to the game and, I hope, it stands out for it.

For Linus Bruckman, I spent a long time drawing the cartoon background on the bottom, but kept it simple.  It took me a long time to find a style that I was comfortable with that also looked decent.  The top section was all google image copy and pasting, with a lot of time spent making it look how I wanted it.  There's a long-winded explanation of how I made the art here. 

If you're not an artist, you just have to have the patience to keep at it until it reaches the level of quality you're looking for.  Doing multiple tutorials and reading various photoshop (or whatever tool you use) how-to guides can not only improve your skills at art, but also give you good ideas and help you down the road.  If you don't have the time and patience to devote to your art, then you just have to lower the level of quality you're looking for. 

Also, remember that there's a difference between artistic quality and technical quality.  You may not have the technical ability to do any jaw-dropping art like say, The Whispered World but with your own limitations in mind, you can give your game a style that is easy to produce and of a high artistic quality such as And Yet it Moves or Little Wheel (or, I would hope, Anna).

[m0ds]

Radiant is a taskmaster, simple as that. That's how he gets graphics. The majority rest of us aren't.

EDIT - I really meant individuals, Joey comes across as an individual game-maker, like me, thats all

[Joseph DiPerla]

I may come across as an individual gamemaker, but I am no gamemaker. Atleast not yet.

[m0ds]

Very good point

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I appreciate Dave Gilbert.  He's a good egg.  These threads tend to turn into back-slapping fests so I'll leave it there.

[Joseph DiPerla]

We cant forget Dualnames and all previous Mags competition hosts.

[Ghost]

Here's me saying SSH has done a lot for me with all those nifty plugins and, of course, the walkcycle creator. Plus he basically invented these AGS-game AGS awards, and they are awesome too. And the Marian games. I haven't played one yet, but they must be good because there are so many of them. And he's Scottish and faster than a speeding haggis, and I happen to like haggis. And he keeps this blog that is nice.

If that is not awesome, I don't know what could be*.




* Except, obviously, more haggis.

[Atelier]

Ahh haggis... the sumptuous sheep's offal mixed with the hard white fat from a cow's kidneys... wrapped in a cow's stomach....

Yes, I suppose it is quite appealing once you think about it.

[IndieBoy]

Don't mock the Haggis.

[m0ds]

Hold on a minute,

I cant seem to create a basic room right, EVEN after following a tutorial!

LOL, you've been here as long as me and you still can't do this in AGS? That's shocking!!!!

Sounds to me like you should just stick to being a player, Joey!

Art skillz or no, the key to getting a game done is self discipline. You not only have to want to do it, you have to prepare yourself for hours of repeating the same key strokes, code lines, imports etc... Maybe you're a man not bound by routine - like me...but I'm still able to find one when needed, and I think that's all you're really incapable of. Like I said before, I think you'd be surprised - once you start rolling, there's definitely less friction - and you can go for hours

You did have some stuff going with Teh Simpsons gayme once!! Just keep working from the ground up. I don't understand why you don't try some things that require no art, see my demo Games Galore for example. Try working on a menu based game or something. Hell just put a few coloured blobs in a room and make each one go bleep or bloop when you press it - that can be your first game Joeys big paint splatter pro.

Well, I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. But don't worry. There are people like Gravity who are even more backwards at coming forwards in game-making than you are

Take care bud

PS, this is what my free time is going on at the moment Joey http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs8a3SypFsM ...LGM wont like it but graphics aside, its become important to me to just get something done. Surely by now you know certain software that could help you achieve making something?

[Joseph DiPerla]

I should have been more specific when I said I cant even create a basic room... :p I meant I cant even DRAW a basic room. Come on Mods, I created a Simpsons template for download with 40 rooms, 13 characters, 8 GUI's etc... I can use AGS. Its the drawing aspect of it that I cant do well. Just look at my room in the critics lounge.

But I need to start somewhere. Maybe I might join in on the next MAGS competition if the subject is right.

[zabnat]

I should have been more specific when I said I cant even create a basic room... :p I meant I cant even DRAW a basic room. Come on Mods, I created a Simpsons template for download with 40 rooms, 13 characters, 8 GUI's etc... I can use AGS. Its the drawing aspect of it that I cant do well. Just look at my room in the critics lounge.

Even so, but the stuff what Mods said about self discipline is still valid. Pretty much everyone can learn to draw and create good looking drawings. Some really talented people just learn it faster, maybe with less frustration and that's why they continue to practise and become really good.

[Ghost]

AGS really is something you can grow into, I think. Let's take your average computer-using-guy who hears about this cool tool that can make games. There are three challenges now: Learning to script, learning to create graphics, and getting a game out.

For me this was always a pretty parallel thing. I knew my way around Delphi and a game maker called DivPro, so I was able to learn AGS by looking at template code and snippets. I was okay with Paint and could get something decent-looking out of it. And I knew a lot of adventure games, so I started with doing basic puzzle situations.

I think that, as you make progress in any of these three areas, the other areas will improve too. As soon as you're more comfortable with AGS scripting and don't need to check the manual every ten minutes or so, you also come up with neater ideas and start to make, for example, a more personal GUI and so on. This means you spend more time on the graphics, and that usually shows, too. And all of this makes your game more interesting.

Basically AGS is PPP (Practise, Practise, Practise) to the core. Then again, even sandwiches are. And I really think there are some people who will always be more of a "scripter" or more of an "artist".

I don't really know why I posted that, though...

[Ryan Timothy B]

And I really think there are some people who will always be more of a "scripter" or more of an "artist".

I personally enjoy doing both equally as much.
I especially enjoy scripting arcade games, or GUI's or anything of the sort.  Much more challenging and fun.
In high school we only had Turbo Pascal, and I would program my own cpu against cpu strategy game.  Never fully completed one, but had the basics working great.  Of course the graphics were done through TP, so you can imagine what that looked like.  Rectangles, Squares and Circles.

But as long as I have a nice storyline for an adventure game; backgrounds and characters aren't so bad either.  And I'd like to think I'm pretty good at drawing them.