The left click - right click dilemma

[Mr Underhill]

Well, of course it's going to serve both purposes - provide hints about possible puzzle solutions, or relevancy to said puzzles, and one-liners. The thing is, I have this kooky ambition to write down a different line for almost every description and inventory on inventory / inventory on screen puzzle. That's pages and pages of text for the 3 room-demo alone, and I'd hate to see it go to waste since it's supposed to both tell you stuff about the world and the main character and provide some clues as I mentioned before.

I'm also thinking of implementing something the absence of which has baffled me throughout gaming history (and now I'm expecting someone to contradict me, but here goes): I never understood why your character had to walk all across the room towards the object if all you issued was a 'look at' command. I mean, of course, I can sort of see two reasons - one is "I have to get closer to examine it" and the other is "you're probably gonna wanna do something to it, so I might as well already be here for it", but in most cases it's just something that's there for world building, a funny observation or just to not only have puzzle-relevant hotspots. What do you guys think of that? (Where "implement it" = see if I catch the programmer in a good enough mood to suggest it", ahem).

[Babar]

If I'm not mistaken, AGS already has allowances for exactly this situation. There's a flag you can set in the Game Settings Pane called "Walk to hotspot in Look mode", which allows you to handle it however you wish.

[elentgirl]

There is another way of handling these situations, which is to use a 'dynamic cursor'.  This changes when over a hotspot to an icon that indicates what action the player can take (eg. an eye for look-at, a hand for pick-up or use).  The action is always instigated by a left mouse click.  You can then have the 'look-at' icon to start with, which changes to another action icon once the player has looked at the object and read your 'funny'.  I have used this system in my own games.
Good luck,
Elen

[Cassiebsg]

You know, you can't really force the player to play your game the way you designed it. There will always be those that just want to got from A to B and don't care about the middle stuff, there'll be those that want to explore every single pixel before they move o, and then there are those that do things that "break" your game... (or in other words, want to do something in a order you did not predict).

As for walking to the hotspot, it's really up to you, if you wish to move the player closer by. You can always use Look once = look from afar, Look twice = move closer and examine, or just leave the player where he is if you just going to look at it. And Move the player closer if he's going to give a close up look/examine.... this could give the player a hint that this hotspot has more to it, than just a look...
It's really up to you and how you design your game.

[Stupot]

Yeah, I mean you just need to think how it would be in real life. If you think the character can see the object from where they are standing them you don't necessarily need to have him walk all the way across the room, but if the object is something small, they're probably going to want to get a bit closer. It's not rocket surgery.

[Adeel]

It's not rocket surgery.

I'm curious... How does a rocket surgery is performed? Has science gone too far and I failed to follow up?

[Radiant]

[Mr Underhill]

Haha! I noticed that too but I figured it for a joke. It made me smile either way

[Stupot]

Haha! I noticed that too but I figured it for a joke. It made me smile either way

You figured right. If I'd used 'brain surgery' or 'rocket science', I'd have come across like a grumpy smart-ass dick. Which I am... After all, you can't teach an old leopard new spots.

[Ali]

Hehe, well the first thing the player picks up could be some sort of bomb or other equally hazardous device.  If you look first you learn what it is and what is required to safely interact with the device.  Otherwise you eventually meet with misfortune.   It only need be done once; the player will learn quickly!

Unless it's the mid 90s, I don't think players will appreciate this. It's punishing the player for not knowing something you haven't told them, which most people (other than Sierra-Masochists) will find frustrating. I love Verb Coins, but as Radiant says - players of contemporary games just don't know how to use them (and don't click on buttons marked HELP for instructions either).

If you make right-click interact, then you're trying to trick players into reading every examine dialogue. But the player will quickly learn and will stop examining if they don't want to. (Plus you'll have irritated everyone except the most committed Blender3D users.)

[Mr Underhill]

Yup, you make a fair point. At the same time, do you think it'd still be irritating if you present them with the option of easily switching the mouse button functions?

[Adeel]

Haha! I noticed that too but I figured it for a joke. It made me smile either way

You figured right. If I'd used 'brain surgery' or 'rocket science', I'd have come across like a grumpy smart-ass dick. Which I am... After all, you can't teach an old leopard new spots.

Ah, so the 'rocket surgery' is the new joke. I naively assumed that perhaps your phone 'auto-corrected' science with surgery (since you seem to be working with 3G these days ).

Thanks are due to you too, Radiant! 

To not to derail this thread further: While I do like the two click interface for adventure games on PC, I don't think the same approach can work well with touch based mobile devices. I see a good potential for the adventure games in the mobile apps' market. Due to this, I personally believe that 9-verb interface (or an interface similar to that) would work better both on PC (with keyboard shortcuts) and Touch based mobile devices.

The LSL1 remake provided another creative solution. Not only it shows the default Sierra interface, it also incorporates a Verb Coin. You can call either of them, depending on your preferences.

[Radiant]

(with keyboard shortcuts)

Please, everyone, add more keyboard shortcuts to your game. It costs the developer all of 15 minutes to put in so it's probably the easiest way to expand your audience.

(fun fact: all classic LucasArts games had extensive keyboard shortcuts for everything!)

[Etumretniw]

There is another way of handling these situations, which is to use a 'dynamic cursor'.  This changes when over a hotspot to an icon that indicates what action the player can take (eg. an eye for look-at, a hand for pick-up or use).  The action is always instigated by a left mouse click.  You can then have the 'look-at' icon to start with, which changes to another action icon once the player has looked at the object and read your 'funny'.  I have used this system in my own games.
Good luck,
Elen

I am more and more comfortable with games that use a dynamic cursor, however I implemented them as having up to two choices in Breakage (one for the left and one for the right button), so it wouldn't be just clicking, but give the player some choice. And at one point I had a situation where looking, and not using, was the right thing to do. And I also added an achievement for looking around at minute things. Just to reward those who play that way. Some variants of dynamic cursors, like The Book of Unwritten Tales' first click is look, following clicks might be interact, and sometimes just looking several times is the required thing, rubs me the wrong way (when not hinted at is what should be done). I basically want some variation, but not a bundle of verbs, which produces a lot of dead ends, and grows the need to give the player logical feedback.

[Cassiebsg]

And at one point I had a situation where looking, and not using, was the right thing to do. And I also added an achievement for looking around at minute things. Just to reward those who play that way.

That sounds confusing if it's done in the same game... first you reward the player for looking, but then you make a puzzle that requires NOT to look?

[Etumretniw]

And at one point I had a situation where looking, and not using, was the right thing to do. And I also added an achievement for looking around at minute things. Just to reward those who play that way.

That sounds confusing if it's done in the same game... first you reward the player for looking, but then you make a puzzle that requires NOT to look?

Looking was the right thing to do

[Cassiebsg]

Ah, okay, makes sense now.
Somehow my brain read it as "not looking and not using"...

[tzachs]

Going back to the original dilemma: I saw two let's plays of 9 months in where the the players seemed unaware they can right click to look. They missed vital clues and it was very frustrating to watch.
Now, those were experienced gamers, mind you (maybe not adventure gamers, but still quite shocking)!
Switching the button scheme won't help because those same people will still fail to left click and get stuck quite early in the game. Plus this will annoy a lot of adventure gamers (me included, and I never got used to this scheme in BASS, otherwise a great game).

A tutorial is an option, but if it's mandatory it will annoy the existing adventure gamers (again, me included) who just want to start playing, and if it's optional a lot of newbies will skip it, not knowing what's good for them.

So, my attempted solution for THAT DAMN DOG was this:  start a timer at the start of your game. If the player doesn't right click within a few minutes then (and only then) show a "did you know you can also right click, you dumbass?" (Not exact phrasing), or some more extended tutorial.
Did it work? I have no idea...

[Retro Wolf]

Let the player choose which mouse button does what. I made an AGS template for that.

[Alberth]

I am a total noob in adventures, but intuitively, I'd use left-click (select = look) and double left-click (action = use).
It's not even mentioned here, am I missing something?