MAGS December: "It's Me Again" (CLOSED)

[Ponch]

Sure is. But let's only ban him from MAGS for a few months, not from the forums.

I could support this. Icey needs to learn from his mistake. But I don't want him to go away. I actually kind of like Icey. His enthusiasm is appreciated and he's usually pretty funny. But this MAGS thing can't be allowed to slide without comment from the AGS Community.

And let's look on the bright side: Maybe all this attention will bring more people in on the next MAGS. 

[Kastchey]

I personally would appreciate if he channeled his enthusiasm elsewhere, but if he stays then let's at least make sure rules don't allow him to mess up the competition like that, and that the entries are being verified. Atelier's rule 2b sounds like a good start. I was also thinking about some kind of pre-deadline after which new entries are no longer accepted, eg. 7 days prior to the effective deadline. In other words, people interested in participating would have to announce their entries earlier than 7 days before the final deadline. This would give serious participants a full month to finish their games, but prevent any last minute entries.

And as for why people cheat in general even if there's nothing to gain other than winning, well..
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=e-peen

[Dualnames]

Rules are fine as they were. I can only begin to wonder, why this is probably the only time in the MAGS history, the rules are broken this way. I honestly agree with everything said by Khris, ddq, and miguel.

Ponch, you know how much I love you, but I don't think this is a time for a comic relief (not that we should take things very seriously), but there's no excuse for what Icey attempted. It was clearly done for winning by default. The entry was probably done within an hour, because I honestly recall every single time that Icey has made a game, he made sure to make a wip or show screenshots or talk about it.

Icey, it should be totally obvious that you brought this upon yourself, winning a MAGS against Radiant and Ponch and Ghost and whoever entered, was a damn fine thing to do, only you decided to take that achievement back by doing this.

I think banning will not achieve anything. You must first understand your mistakes yourself. That's all I have to say really, take it with a pinch of salt, I may be wrong.

[Icey]

Listen Icey, you shouldn't be mad with anyone here, but people here are mad with you! Do you realize that your credit has just ran out? Trust is something very hard to gather but very easy to loose.

I agree that there should be some kind of punishment for what you've done, but the most important thing here is for you to understand why people are mad at you. And members your age prove every day that it's not that adults are hard on you but its your immature behaviour that can't be accepted.

Everybody here has failed and will fail again, we're all humans and allowed to have a bad day but what makes us grow up is accepting that we have failed.

Be a good boy, apologize and stay calm for a while. Do your thing but always acknowledge that for every act (post) you do there will be consequences.

If all that was needed was an apology then I have know problem with that. I mean I thought I had already said sorry but I mean come on now, when you say were all human then you can't be surprised that I got a little upset.

I am sorry.
It's in bold just to make sure people see it and not over look it.

Also I really didn't read enough of the rules to make a MAGS games so I also wasn't aware of the "Rushed game " rule.

But now I know just about a bit more about the the whole MAGS competitions.

Also

@Ponch: Thanks and I am going to take up that offer on not competing for a while cause I really don't want to in the first place on will but if it makes people happy by hearing me say sure I just leave because you said or or, I'll just never come back cause you wan't me banned(which is not happening to I hope I didn't hype you up to much ddq) then fine so be it.

And if I do decided to make a game then I will announce it earlier but I will start when I'm ready just not the last day on a week day.

Also Dual's I do not make a topic for every game I made or am working on cause I would fill up half the page if I did that plus I know I would most likely get banned for that cause all my games would be at the top of the WIP board from over posting.

I personally would appreciate if he channeled his enthusiasm elsewhere, but if he stays then let's at least make sure rules don't allow him to mess up the competition like that, and that the entries are being verified. Atelier's rule 2b sounds like a good start. I was also thinking about some kind of pre-deadline after which new entries are no longer accepted, eg. 7 days prior to the effective deadline. In other words, people interested in participating would have to announce their entries earlier than 7 days before the final deadline. This would give serious participants a full month to finish their games, but prevent any last minute entries.

And as for why people cheat in general even if there's nothing to gain other than winning, well..
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=e-peen

So you say I did it so I could brag? I would like to be the first in a lot of things first online game AGS(Dual's beat me to that) first RPG in ags(A lot of people lied to me and said it couldn't be done so that's what kept me going in trying to make one cause deep down I knew with the right knowledge I could pull it off and thanks to Ben for making OSD cause that further told me it could be done so if anyone wan't to talk about lying then let's take it back 2 years ago.)

[Khris]

What we need is for you to grow up.

You entered a rushed non-game that took you an hour or so to create in a month long game-making competition shortly after the deadline because you realized you'd get a default win by doing so.

When this obnoxious, cheap and unworthy way of greedy trophy grubbing was pointed out, you did all you could, including lying, to get away with it. (To use your own example, we watched you come running out of the store, with an employee in tail waving a photo of you taking the console.)

This isn't something you simply apologize for, like bumping into someone on a busy street. It's a very serious character flaw and speaks volumes about the mindset and self-image of a person, and if you were a real life acquaintance, I'd not just avoid you like the plague but warn other people about you.
Also, I hate being lied to that transparently, because it's insulting my intelligence rather than my sense of trust.

Also I really didn't read enough of the rules to make a MAGS games so I also wasn't aware of the "Rushed game " rule.
But now I know just about a bit more about the the whole MAGS competitions.

Wow, you missed a rule? I can't believe it.
Also, this is a special situation because there weren't any other entries.  Even if posting rushed entries was allowed, doing it to score a default win is assholish behaviour. A good part of this conflict is about doing what's right without having a rule that says so. And you completely failing to realize this.

So you say I did it so I could brag?

Yup.
Need proof?

I would like to be the first in a lot of things first online game AGS(Dual's beat me to that) first RPG in ags

Also:

(A lot of people lied to me and said [an RPG] couldn't be done so that's what kept me going

This is a desperate attempt at shooting the liar accusation back at us and just makes you look even more pathetic. Nobody tried to deliberately fool you about what AGS is capable of, people simply wanted to get through your thick skull that YOU aren't capable of pulling of FINAL FANTASY XVI with AGS. A huge difference.

How about this: every time you're itching to visit the forums, go to http://notalwaysright.com instead.
Maybe it'll open your eyes a bit.

And for the record, the November win was only due to a voting fuck-up.

[Icey]

Well damn ok I said I didn't want the win

Also I am not trying to change the "target" by saying you or anyone lied to me but am only pointing out the fact that I am human we all lie. However in this topic I am not lying.

If you stop over looking the key parts to what I say then maybe you wouldn't feel like I am trying to challenge you but see that I'm trying to prove a point and comment on the same point that someone else said.

[Ghost]

This isn't going anywhere.

I think Atelier did a good job on the improved rules. I like the one about people announcing interest/progress  a week before the deadline; that was usually done anyway and now is a good "check" against rushed entries. It's also good to have, once again, spelled out what can be used in terms of premade material, and whoever sets the theme may now need to take a bit more care when include any "private rules"; meaning they will have to be spelt out precisely. It's nice to have that ruleset, and I hope it can be what it should be, something in the background, known but not towering.

I have always followed MAGS with interest and in a way MAGS got me back into active game making, I wouldn't like to see such a controversy again. While there is no F, U or N in it, MAGS spelled fun for me.

[Radiant]

I think it's a good idea to evaluate this or any ruleset every now and then, but to be honest I don't think making more formal rules is necessary here. Indeed, more formalities may turn new people away from MAGS because it looks less friendly. The current informal rules have worked well for years, I don't think it's necessary to change them over one or two incidents.

I think the Bogdan case was handled well by all involved, including him: he asked a question (can I enter with a game started earlier) and he got an answer (no), and then he withdrew from that MAGS. I don't see a problem here, and this is nothing the current rules couldn't handle.

In the case of Icey, well, if the issue is people not following the rules, then by definition adding more rules isn't going to help. The existing rules of "no rushed entries" and "no prior art" would have disqualified his entry anyway. This is a rather unusual situation, and if it ever happens again I'm sure Atelier or the community will point out an invalid entry.

So let's not go all formal here, this is not moot court

And for the record, the November win was only due to a voting fuck-up.

Please explain what you mean?

[Khris]

There were seven votes already when Ben entered his game so it was decided to reset the counter. Subsequently, icey won with 4 votes by a 2 vote margin.

[Atelier]

I think icey was winning by a bigger margin before I reset the counter anyway, it didn't seem to have any effect on the distribution of the votes (people must have voted again or something).

[Icey]

Khris you make it seem like I got all the votes. I couldn't see how I had got anyways until the end so stop talking about fuck-up's cause there still were late games and a missing game. I'm not not blaming anyone cause I already know everyone was trying to finish up there game before the end.

[Ghost]

I think icey was winning by a bigger margin before I reset the counter anyway, it didn't seem to have any effect on the distribution of the votes (people must have voted again or something).

The counter WAS reset? Dang. Then I have missed out to vote for myself!